RockRaines Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 09:14 PM) Explain the common sense to the move tonight. I'd love to hear it. Common sense tonight, easy. Bullpen has a job to do, fails. On good teams, they don't. Managers for good teams are beloved. Managers for bad teams are blamed for players not doing their jobs. Common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHurt3515 Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 This game was on the bullpen, not Robin.. 4 outs to go up 4 runs with only one guy on base should never end up in a loss no matter who is pitching.. End of story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 09:08 PM) why is Guerra pitching over Putnam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ginger Kid Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Hard to believe this team could be right in the mix with a decent bullpen. How the f*** do you cough it up so badly so often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Funny there was only one post disagreeing with yanking Sale before the bullpen failed. Then the experts came out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 It's going to suck if Hahn overpays for a closer this offseason cause this bullpen has been so abysmal. Maybe he'll get lucky and Jones returns and gets some save chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 10, 2014 -> 02:17 AM) Funny there was only one post disagreeing with yanking Sale before the bullpen failed. Then the experts came out. Got mine in during the Pedroia at bat on my iPhone, which I never post from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 07:11 PM) Even if he waited until the 9th to insert Pericka, why don't you look at how they performed. They still would have lost, and people would have b****ed about Sale throwing 120 pitches. I certainly would not have. This isn't rocket science, folks. He either horribly over manages or he pretends like he's asleep at the wheel. Pull a starter when he's no longer effective. Leave him in so long as he is. Don't bring in Eric Surkamp in to face Cano just because he's a lefty. Don't take out an effective Chris Sale to bring in a new pitcher against Pedroia just because he's a righty, especially with Papi looming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 07:15 PM) Common sense tonight, easy. Bullpen has a job to do, fails. On good teams, they don't. Managers for good teams are beloved. Managers for bad teams are blamed for players not doing their jobs. Common sense. No, that's a lack of any sense at all. If that's your argument, yank Chris after the guy reaches base. Don't let him retire the next two guys easily and then yank him inexplicably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 So, how many runs was the early removal of Sale worth? Would we have won 4-0? Can you justify that? It looks like we didn't have a prayer of making 3 outs before 5 runs scored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thxfrthmmrs Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Sale has retired the last two batters prior to Pedroia, his PC as at 107 at that point, I don't think anyone would have complained if Robin left him in there for one more batter, even if he eventually gives up the run. Simply put, I would leave Sale in 10 times out of 10 in high leverage situations over this bullpen, if his pitch count is under 115 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 When the opponent scores their 4th run, the Sox are 10-44 (.185). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 09:18 PM) I certainly would not have. This isn't rocket science, folks. He either horribly over manages or he pretends like he's asleep at the wheel. Pull a starter when he's no longer effective. Leave him in so long as he is. Don't bring in Eric Surkamp in to face Cano just because he's a lefty. Don't take out an effective Chris Sale to bring in a new pitcher against Pedroia just because he's a righty, especially with Papi looming. Yes you would have. Look at your post. He is wrong no matter what he does. Too many moves, bad. Not enough moves, bad. Guess what, this team isn't going anywhere and either is Robin. Might as well get another hobby if it makes you that angry. Go hit some balls instead, much better stress reliever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 10, 2014 -> 02:20 AM) So, how many runs was the early removal of Sale worth? Would we have won 4-0? Can you justify that? It looks like we didn't have a prayer of making 3 outs before 5 runs scored Who knows, but you can't deny the HUGE momentum shift that took place in the 8th. Then, the White Sox can't make contact in the 9th, and it felt like Boston had a ton of confidence. Hawk talks about it all the time when the White Sox are facing an ace.....he says "good, bring in the reliever, anyone but XX" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 09:13 PM) When have we ever worried more about pitch counts than effectiveness? How many times do I have to explain this to you? This is like the 3-4th time, honestly. Lol every fire Robin thread has something about overusing Sale in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 10, 2014 -> 02:21 AM) When the opponent scores their 4th run, the Sox are 10-44 (.185). I know it will get overshadowed by the bullpen situation, but they have got to move Beckham from the 2nd spot vs RHP. He's now at .201 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 09:17 PM) Funny there was only one post disagreeing with yanking Sale before the bullpen failed. Then the experts came out. Chillihead no respect. He brought it up in like the 5th inning I remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 09:20 PM) No, that's a lack of any sense at all. If that's your argument, yank Chris after the guy reaches base. Don't let him retire the next two guys easily and then yank him inexplicably. No it's perfect sense. Gardy is despised in Minny right now. Does he suck? No. His team sucks. Second. What if Sale said he was done? Robin didn't signal until he talked to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 07:17 PM) Funny there was only one post disagreeing with yanking Sale before the bullpen failed. Then the experts came out. Yeah, because I was relaxing on my couch enjoying a great pitcher do his thing when the jackass decided he wanted to make things "interesting." Look, Robin gets no credit for "allowing" Chris to dominate. All we ask of him is to leave him in while he gets outs, or take him out when he stops getting outs. That doesn't require any expertise whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 10, 2014 -> 03:22 AM) No it's perfect sense. Gardy is despised in Minny right now. Does he suck? No. His team sucks. Second. What if Sale said he was done? Robin didn't signal until he talked to him. He called for the reliever on the way to the mound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 Bottom line is the decisions Ventura made in the Angel game and tonight both failed. They were different situations but in the first instance it turned out he left Sale in too long and tonight it turned out he pulled him too soon. Of course hindsight is 20/20, but managers ultimately are judged on their record, by how well their decisions work out. I would hope that those who defended his decision to leave Sale in against the Angels would at least be consistent and admit that he shouldn't have pulled him so soon tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 09:23 PM) He called for the reliever on the way to the mound I didn't see that. Either did stone. My bad then. I thought 109 pitches or whatever made sense but I also thought our bullpen could cut through the hapless Red Sox too. Also my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 07:21 PM) Yes you would have. Look at your post. He is wrong no matter what he does. Too many moves, bad. Not enough moves, bad. Guess what, this team isn't going anywhere and either is Robin. Might as well get another hobby if it makes you that angry. Go hit some balls instead, much better stress reliever. Maybe you should stop defending ignorance unconditionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 QUOTE (Jake @ Jul 9, 2014 -> 07:20 PM) So, how many runs was the early removal of Sale worth? Would we have won 4-0? Can you justify that? It looks like we didn't have a prayer of making 3 outs before 5 runs scored Yeah, if he gives up a hit to Pedroia, you leave him in for one more batter...Ortiz if he comes to the plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 10, 2014 Share Posted July 10, 2014 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 10, 2014 -> 02:25 AM) I didn't see that. Either did stone. My bad then. I thought 109 pitches or whatever made sense but I also thought our bullpen could cut through the hapless Red Sox too. Also my bad. I thought I saw him signal on the way out there. I was surprised, as I thought for sure he'd keep him out there. Oh well, this season has been full of great wins and heartbreaking losses. At least it's better than last year's boring season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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