unrealistic trade musings

[WKamm]

I'd like to see Charlie Blackmon on the Sox, but I don't believe we have enough to offer COL for him.

[brian310]

I'd like to see Charlie Blackmon on the Sox, but I don't believe we have enough to offer COL for him.

 

Agree, he would be a good fit.

[Andy the Clown]

They'd probably rather give us CarGo.

[oldsox]

They'd probably rather give us CarGo.

Can't tell if you are kidding or not, Andy. One of those guys will be available in off season, especially if they re-sign Cuddyer. Cargo is still struggling, going 0 for 5 last night, all strikeouts.

[Andy the Clown]

Can't tell if you are kidding or not, Andy. One of those guys will be available in off season, especially if they re-sign Cuddyer. Cargo is still struggling, going 0 for 5 last night, all strikeouts.

 

I was half joking (or half serious), but I could actually see them trading Cargo. He's coming up on 30, is steeply overpaid, and can't stay healthy. I'm too lazy to look up the stats, but his hitting record away from Coors isn't fantastic.

 

Then again, they might keep all three (Blackmon, Cargo, Dickerson); can't imagine they'd resign Cuddyer.

[BlackSox13]

Can't tell if you are kidding or not, Andy. One of those guys will be available in off season, especially if they re-sign Cuddyer. Cargo is still struggling, going 0 for 5 last night, all strikeouts.

Good grief! 5 times! I know 4 k's is the golden sombrero so what's 5 called? I really do not remember.

[GGajewski18]

I was half joking (or half serious), but I could actually see them trading Cargo. He's coming up on 30, is steeply overpaid, and can't stay healthy. I'm too lazy to look up the stats, but his hitting record away from Coors isn't fantastic.

 

Then again, they might keep all three (Blackmon, Cargo, Dickerson); can't imagine they'd resign Cuddyer.

 

They could definitely trade CarGo I believe. And I forgot who said it, but the team i guess did come out and say they do want to resign Cuddyer.

[BigHurt3515]

I'd like to see Mike Trout in a Sox uniform.

[buckweaver]

They could definitely trade CarGo I believe. And I forgot who said it, but the team i guess did come out and say they do want to resign Cuddyer.

 

Just wonder if CarGo can hit in the Clutch.

 

[Butter Parque]

I'd take Corey Dickerson

Edited July 20, 2014 by Butter Parque

[oldsox]

I'd take any of those three guys from Colorado outfield. I watch the Rockies a lot. Not sure how much pitching they would want for Cargo, but the thought of him in White Sox uni makes me salivate. He'll get it together for someone.

[Al Lopez's Ghost]

Good grief! 5 times! I know 4 k's is the golden sombrero so what's 5 called? I really do not remember.

The Olympic Rings, I think.

[witesoxfan]

Carlos Gonzalez is the type of dynamic talent that, to me, is still worth taking a chance. There is less commitment with him than there is Kemp, and he costs less per year too - $16 mill in '15, $17 mill in '16, $20 mill in '17. He's also shown the ability to be a good hitter more recently too.

 

If you can get the Rockies to eat some of that, or you can find a taker for Danks, I'd be OK with that type of move.

[Dick Allen]

.259/.303/.427 Dayan Viciedo's career numbers

.260/.316/.442 Cargo's career numbers on the road.

 

Unless there is a quirk and the Sox go to Coors Field 80 times a year, I don't see why you would want Cargo's contract, especially if you don't think Viciedo is worth what they pay him.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Dick Allen

[witesoxfan]

.259/.303/.427 Dayan Viciedo's career numbers

.260/.316/.442 Cargo's career numbers on the road.

 

Players, in general, always hit worse on the road. That can change from year to year.

 

If the Sox stadium played more like SafeCo or PetCo, I'd be more alarmed, but he's played in one of the best hitter's parks in the majors. Tulo's numbers are similarly split, as were Holliday's when he was there.

 

To clarify, I wouldn't give up a ton due to the assumed risk, and I'd ask that they do include some money (primarily to offset the $20 million salary in '17), but I do think he could be worth the risk.

[Dick Allen]

Players, in general, always hit worse on the road. That can change from year to year.

 

If the Sox stadium played more like SafeCo or PetCo, I'd be more alarmed, but he's played in one of the best hitter's parks in the majors. Tulo's numbers are similarly split, as were Holliday's when he was there.

 

To clarify, I wouldn't give up a ton due to the assumed risk, and I'd ask that they do include some money (primarily to offset the $20 million salary in '17), but I do think he could be worth the risk.

For the last several years USCF has played as a relatively neutral park, except for home runs. This year for some reason, home runs are actually below league average. Perhaps the prevailing winds out of the east is the cause, but wind direction never really seemed significant in previous seasons.

 

You can say Cargo's numbers really have nothing to do with Coors Field, just a fairly normal home/away split. I disagree. What I gave you is his career split. His OPS is over 200 points higher at home vs. on the road for his career..

 

.330/.387/.601 vs. .260/.316/.442

 

That's HOFer vs. Dayan Viciedo

Edited July 21, 2014 by Dick Allen

[witesoxfan]

For the last several years USCF has played as a relatively neutral park, except for home runs. This year for some reason, home runs are actually below league average. Perhaps the prevailing winds out of the east is the cause, but wind direction never really seemed significant in previous seasons.

 

You can say Cargo's numbers really have nothing to do with Coors Field, just a fairly normal home/away split. I disagree. What I gave you is his career split. His OPS is over 200 points higher at home vs. on the road for his career..

 

.330/.387/.601 vs. .260/.316/.442

 

That's HOFer vs. Dayan Viciedo

 

Troy Tulowitzki, home versus away: .323/.397.565/.962 vs .274/.349/.469/.818

 

That's a hall of famer versus a merely good hitter.

 

Coors has a large effect, but players will always perform better at home on average. I would imagine that Gonzalez would end up as a .825-.850 OPS, 120-130 wRC+ type of player.

 

[knightni]

Good grief! 5 times! I know 4 k's is the golden sombrero so what's 5 called? I really do not remember.

Platinum Sombrero

[Chisoxfn]

Troy Tulowitzki, home versus away: .323/.397.565/.962 vs .274/.349/.469/.818

 

That's a hall of famer versus a merely good hitter.

 

Coors has a large effect, but players will always perform better at home on average. I would imagine that Gonzalez would end up as a .825-.850 OPS, 120-130 wRC+ type of player.

20M per season for a potential .825 - .850 OPS seems like overspend. I guess technically it is 16 or 17 and scaling upwards but still. There is a lot of risk getting Car Go, although the tools are definitely nice.

[witesoxfan]

20M per season for a potential .825 - .850 OPS seems like overspend. I guess technically it is 16 or 17 and scaling upwards but still. There is a lot of risk getting Car Go, although the tools are definitely nice.

 

Right, it's $53 mill for the next 3 years. I'd need some sort of subsidy with the Rockies either taking on some money or the Sox getting rid of Danks.

 

If the Sox somehow got $11 mill paid for, and had to pay Gonzalez roughly $14 mill per years (as opposed to almost $18 mill), I'd be much more willing to investigate such a deal.

[Dick Allen]

20M per season for a potential .825 - .850 OPS seems like overspend. I guess technically it is 16 or 17 and scaling upwards but still. There is a lot of risk getting Car Go, although the tools are definitely nice.

I think the .825-.850 OPS not playing at Coors is way too optimistic, and to add, this guy tends to get hurt a lot. I really don't know why people who have been trying to save JR's money the past several years would want to blow it what appears to be a pretty good bet at a train wreck.

[witesoxfan]

I think the .825-.850 OPS not playing at Coors is way too optimistic, and to add, this guy tends to get hurt a lot. I really don't know why people who have been trying to save JR's money the past several years would want to blow it what appears to be a pretty good bet at a train wreck.

 

He was absolutely phenomenal on the road last year though too.

 

It'd be risky, but I think, if the price is right, it'd be a risk worth taking. I obviously disagree that he wouldn't get near the .825-.850 OPS, but I don't believe that's worth arguing about anymore. I think someone like the Yankees or Red Sox would assume more of that risk while including the same or more as the White Sox, so I think it's a moot point, but he absolutely is a very talented player.

 

BTW, his DL stint this year had to deal with a tumor being removed from his finger. I strongly doubt that's going to be a reoccuring injury.

[Dick Allen]

He was absolutely phenomenal on the road last year though too.

 

It'd be risky, but I think, if the price is right, it'd be a risk worth taking. I obviously disagree that he wouldn't get near the .825-.850 OPS, but I don't believe that's worth arguing about anymore. I think someone like the Yankees or Red Sox would assume more of that risk while including the same or more as the White Sox, so I think it's a moot point, but he absolutely is a very talented player.

 

BTW, his DL stint this year had to deal with a tumor being removed from his finger. I strongly doubt that's going to be a reoccuring injury.

He has only played more than 135 games once in his career. I already showed you his career splits. Yes, he was great last year on the road. This year, he's been Tyler Flowers minus the 7 for 7. An over 200 point difference for a career is pretty unheard of just being the product of being at home. I think Yaz has the biggest home/away split in the HOF, and it's nowhere near Gargo's.

Edited July 21, 2014 by Dick Allen

[Chisoxfn]

He has only played more than 135 games once in his career. I already showed you his career splits. Yes, he was great last year on the road. This year, he's been Tyler Flowers minus the 7 for 7. An over 200 point difference for a career is pretty unheard of just being the product of being at home. I think Yaz has the biggest home/away split in the HOF, and it's nowhere near Gargo's.

I agree with you. The risk / reward doesn't seem all that good, especially when you factor in the health issues.

[witesoxfan]

He has only played more than 135 games once in his career. I already showed you his career splits. Yes, he was great last year on the road. This year, he's been Tyler Flowers minus the 7 for 7. An over 200 point difference for a career is pretty unheard of just being the product of being at home. I think Yaz has the biggest home/away split in the HOF, and it's nowhere near Gargo's.

 

I guess we're agreeing to disagree, even though it's basically by how much better he would be outside of Coors. I also think he'd stay healthier outside of thin air and with a better training staff, but I can't obviously can't prove that.

 

The bottom line is that I think he can put up that .825-.850 OPS while staying relatively healthy, and you and Jason don't. I still wouldn't make the move unless the Rockies kicked in about $8-11 million to make it a more feasible contract for the Sox, and even then it would depend upon what else is being given up. It'd be a difficult move to make with all the conditions that would have to be met.