This Chicago is Not My Kind of Town

[Jake]

Chicago has 'loose' gun laws?

 

The United States does. The ease with which a person can buy a gun from someone with no questions asked is a huge problem here. The gang problem in Chicago predates the rather restrictive gun laws as well.

 

I would be remiss to neglect the fact that while the ease of gun ownership enabled this problem, it probably would have been avoided if not for rampant and persistent housing discrimination that remains as bad today as it was 40 years ago. Proactive implementation of anti-housing discrimination legislation could very well have helped us avoid the problem, at least as severe as we know it today. People would have been able to enjoy greater freedom to own firearms as a result as well.

[LittleHurt05]

Yeah, I mean Greg shouldn't be such a woman about these things, but at the same time it's f***ed up that 80 people get shot and 14 killed in a 48 hour period.

 

Imagine how bad it would be if the weather wasn't so damn cold 6 months a year. Somehow LA & Houston manage to have less murders despite being warm 365 days every year.

[StrangeSox]

Yeah, I mean Greg shouldn't be such a woman about these things, but at the same time it's f***ed up that 80 people get shot and 14 killed in a 48 hour period.

Sweet casual sexism bro!

[Jenksismyhero]

Sweet casual sexism bro!

 

I wrote it knowing you wouldn't be able to resist.

[Jenksismyhero]

Even Italy only has a fourth of the gun murders per capita that the USA does. You're literally more likely to die by gun homicide in the USA than you are in Palestine (we're a lot less likely to get killed by missiles, though, so there's always that). Twice as likely to die by gun homicide here than in the Congo.

 

No two places are directly comparable, but we are a buttload more violent (particularly, violent w/ guns) than anywhere else that fancies itself as "developed" or "modern" in the world. Our loose gun laws are the very reason that people can say gangs are some strange, incomprehensible, not worth including in any estimate thing because they just always have guns.

 

But we also have 10 times the number of gang members and gang violence accounts for like 80% of the violent crime. You can't just ignore that. Take away the gangs and we're a pretty non-violent bunch, especially in the last couple of decades.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Jenksismybitch

[farmteam]

It's gangs. There was a gang shooting today in Skokie. Yeah, Skokie.

Whoa, really? Where in Skokie? I grew up near there.

 

I was reading a story about a murder here in April or May. I thought it would say it was the 50th murder in Minneapolis for the year or something. Nope. It was the 5th. Been a few more triple homicides this summer, unfortunately.

[LittleHurt05]

Whoa, really? Where in Skokie? I grew up near there.

 

I was reading a story about a murder here in April or May. I thought it would say it was the 50th murder in Minneapolis for the year or something. Nope. It was the 5th. Been a few more triple homicides this summer, unfortunately.

 

Oakton & McCormick near the driving range

[StrangeSox]

I wrote it knowing you wouldn't be able to resist.

Good job?

[Jake]

But we also have 10 times the number of gang members and gang violence accounts for like 80% of the violent crime. You can't just ignore that. Take away the gangs and we're a pretty non-violent bunch, especially in the last couple of decades.

 

I can ignore it because that's not true.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/evan-defilip..._b_5071639.html

 

In a scathing critique of ABC's recent report "Young Guns," Dana Loesch stated that most gun deaths were the result of gang violence; therefore, America has a gang problem, not a gun problem. Her claim appears to be supported by sites positing that "a staggering 80 percent of gun homicides are gang-related." As it turns out though, not only is her statement factually incorrect, as the majority of gun deaths are suicides, but there is not a shred of evidence to support her characterization that gangs are the driving force behind firearm violence.

 

So, do we have a gang problem or a gun problem? Data collected by the National Gang Center, the government agency responsible for cataloging gang violence, makes clear that it's the latter. There were 1,824 gang-related killings in 2011. This total includes deaths by means other than a gun. The Bureau of Justice Statistics finds this number to be even lower, identifying a little more than 1,000 gang-related homicides in 2008. In comparison, there were 11,101 homicides and 19,766 suicides committed with firearms in 2011.

 

The most recent Centers for Disease Control study on this subject lends further credence to our claim. It examined five cities that met the criterion for having a high prevalence of gang homicides: Los Angeles, California; Oklahoma City, Oklahoma; Long Beach, California; Oakland, California; and Newark, New Jersey. In these cities, a total of 856 gang and 2,077 non-gang homicides were identified and included in the analyses. So, even when examining cities with the largest gang problems, gang homicides only accounted for 29 percent of the total for the period under consideration (2003-2008). For the nation as a whole it would be much smaller.

 

The 80 percent of gang-related gun homicides figure purporting to support Loesch's claim, then, is not only false, but off by nearly a factor of five. The direct opposite is necessarily true: more than 80 percent of gun homicides are non-gang related. While gang violence is still a serious problem that needs to be addressed, it is disingenuous to assert that the vast majority of our gun problem (even excluding suicides) is caused by gangs.

 

In spite of this, LaPierre's proposed solution to gun violence is to "contact every U.S. Attorney and ask them to bring at least 10 cases per month against drug dealers, gang members and other violent felons caught illegally possessing firearms."

 

That same CDC study, however, also refutes LaPierre's claim that the drug trade is fueling gun-violence, saying, "the proportion of gang homicides resulting from drug trade/use or with other crimes in progress was consistently low in the five cities, ranging from zero to 25 percent."

 

Furthermore, a 2005 study done by Cook, Ludwig and Braga found that nearly three in five homicide offenders in Illinois in 2001 did not have a felony conviction within the 10 years prior to the homicide. Looking at just violent felons excludes a huge subset of potential criminals that become violent in the presence of a firearm.

 

Gun advocates' blind focus on gangs, drugs and violent felons overlooks the larger gun problem facing America. It is irresponsible and disingenuous for some of us to brush off our staggering death toll from firearms merely as the product of gangs or even violent criminals. Recognizing America's high homicide rate for what it is -- a gun problem -- is the first step in solving it.

[Jenksismyhero]

Good job?

 

Just wanted to help you feel like you played the role of discriminated-group-hero today. I know you get off on it.

[Jenksismyhero]

I can ignore it because that's not true.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/evan-defilip..._b_5071639.html

 

The CDC?

 

I think my 80% figure came from a DOJ study from the early 00's. I'll have to look for the link later. I know I've posted it in one of these threads before.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Jenksismybitch

[LDF]

It's gangs. There was a gang shooting today in Skokie. Yeah, Skokie.

 

I know they are gangs ..... I grew up on the sw side of chi. exactly on 25 and calf. right across

of cook county jail in the housing projects. Harrison hs was my hs this was 60-83.

 

I belong to a ummm ..... social club and yea if we had a problem we dealt with it. 1 on 1. guns are the

equalizer for those who could hang and yet wanted to be a big man. now it is part of life.

 

but a lot of what is going on is drugs and revenge.

[Texsox]

The the murder rates lower where there are a lot of gang activity?

[greg775]

So how'd Chicago do last weekend? 30 or more murders? Or are things getting better?

[Iwritecode]

So how'd Chicago do last weekend? 30 or more murders? Or are things getting better?

 

I think if any city got 30 or more murders over a single weekend it would be national news.

[Jenksismyhero]

http://abc7chicago.com/news/parade-organiz...olence-/251581/

 

I sorta understand their frustration, that positive stories are pushed aside for negative ones, but come on. People were shot standing adjacent to the parade route. Of course that's going to be the lead when the media covers the parade.

Edited August 11, 2014 by Jenksismybitch

[bmags]

http://abc7chicago.com/news/parade-organiz...olence-/251581/

 

I sorta understand their frustration, that positive stories are pushed aside for negative ones, but come on. People were shot standing adjacent to the parade route. Of course that's going to be the lead when the media covers the parade.

 

I hear your second paragraph but I also get where they are coming from. WGN news, whenever they do the "facebook feedback" on violence, there are always comments about how those communities should be marching against violence and trying to take their streets back. But...they are. A lot. It's just not covered. And then there is a huge parade that is covered and all that comes out of it is nearby shootings.

[bmags]

A nice article about some Chicago area kids trying to own the right to define their neighborhood:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/0...ontent=20140802

 

I hope they can overcome the obstacles we've laid in their paths. They deserve it.