Yanks on Danks

[TheFutureIsNear]

Danks can certainly be a factor in the Sox next run for the World Series. He is not an average pitcher, he is an average mid-rotation pitcher, something that is not that easy to replace or the Sox would have three more of them. His contract is reasonable for his performance and it is unlikely that the Sox would get any discount by bringing someone in put up similar production. Couple that with the way that Danks has continued to improve the further he has gotten from surgery, he could end up being an extremely solid #3 starter in a playoff rotation. The money is not holding the Sox back from anything and the Sox have a terrible track record of acquiring established players in free agency.

 

Danks is what he is at this point....You can most likely rely on him for about 185 innings of 3.8-4.3 ERA ball. Don't get me wrong, there's no shame in that kind of performance, but he is by no means a good value at $14M or hard to replace at all. We should and will be able to replace Danks at at least 1/2 the price. Not to mention that if a lefty has to go when Rodon arrives in Chicago Danks is without question the odd man out.

 

 

[Eminor3rd]

If you're being honest with yourself John Danks is not going to be a factor in whether we can compete for a world series again relatively soon. The shoulder injury turned him into a pretty average pitcher that is replaceable at a much lower cost. If someone is willing to take the contract let them as far as I'm concerned. Free up the money and you never know what could happen, it's not like this franchise has shied away from acquiring high cost players in the past. Who cares who our 4th starter is for the rest of the year when we aren't making the playoffs anyway?

 

I believe that there is value in not having a rotation in shambles. Danks helps stabilize what could very easily be a disaster of a rotation with no obvious candidates to step up.

[chitownsportsfan]

Actually, other than the Houston game, his velocity and metrics have improved as the season has gone on.

 

fun with selective endpoints. I honestly don't know what to say to anyone that thinks John Danks is anything more than a 4th or 5th starter at this point. Don't even look at the metrics, watch the games he pitches! Is there anything about his stuff, control, or command that screams 3rd starter? Hell no. Hector Noesi has better stuff. Danks used to succeed because he had pretty good command and control and a 90-92 mph heater that he could spot well to work with his cutter and change.

 

His average FB velocity was 91.6 in 2011. This year it's 88.1. That tells you most of the story right there. His change is still good but his cutter and fastball are both well below average now and the metrics back this up. His fastball gets absolutely tattooed, the numbers on Fangraphs for his fastball post injury are pretty stunning.

[TheFutureIsNear]

I believe that there is value in not having a rotation in shambles. Danks helps stabilize what could very easily be a disaster of a rotation with no obvious candidates to step up.

 

What disaster? We lose 90 games instead of 86 and subsequently get a higher pick? Sounds downright horrible.

[Feeky Magee]

The one thing that gives me pause for the Yankees seriously being in on Danks is how heavily they used peripherals to evaluate Brandon McCarthy, and to a lesser extent Chase Headley (batted-ball speed). I feel like we'd be more likely to offload Danks to a team like the Mariners who still seem to use basic evaluations of performance, because Danks does not look good outside of the ERA, which itself is meh.

[caulfield12]

The one thing that gives me pause for the Yankees seriously being in on Danks is how heavily they used peripherals to evaluate Brandon McCarthy, and to a lesser extent Chase Headley (batted-ball speed). I feel like we'd be more likely to offload Danks to a team like the Mariners who still seem to use basic evaluations of performance, because Danks does not look good outside of the ERA, which itself is meh.

 

Except the Mariners were the first team to use defensive metrics extensively.

 

Just because they're interested in Viciedo doesn't mean they're ignoring his peripherals either, it just means they believe he has potential to be something more, so they can try to buy him on a low (just like 2 months ago teams inquiring about Beckham would have been overpaying had they been forced to pull the trigger at that point for an injury).

 

 

The Mariners don't need pitching. That's the least of their problems. They need to improve nearly every element of their offense, other than Seager, Cano and Zunino. J. Jones and Ackley have been doing fine recently but who knows how long that will last. SS (Miller), Morrison and Hart have been really hurting them. Basically, their outfield's been a mess.

Edited July 24, 2014 by caulfield12

[Eminor3rd]

What disaster? We lose 90 games instead of 86 and subsequently get a higher pick? Sounds downright horrible.

 

For the players and their development. Too many people pretend like player's aren't affected by a s***ty environment. It's about managing to put together an environment where the players can semble some sort of argument in their heads that they should put in their work every day and try to win. Getting us salary relief that we don't currently need to sign some overpriced player from a weak free agent class to ANOTHER bad contract isn't worth frustrating the guys you are trying to develop into a "core."

[Eminor3rd]

And now that the Yankees just picked up Capuano for free, they are even less likely to pay Danks.

[Feeky Magee]

Except the Mariners were the first team to use defensive metrics extensively.

 

Just because they're interested in Viciedo doesn't mean they're ignoring his peripherals either, it just means they believe he has potential to be something more, so they can try to buy him on a low (just like 2 months ago teams inquiring about Beckham would have been overpaying had they been forced to pull the trigger at that point for an injury).

 

 

The Mariners don't need pitching. That's the least of their problems. They need to improve nearly every element of their offense, other than Seager, Cano and Zunino. J. Jones and Ackley have been doing fine recently but who knows how long that will last. SS (Miller), Morrison and Hart have been really hurting them. Basically, their outfield's been a mess.

I was listening to an old Baseball Prospectus podcast the other day that talked about how Jack Z was coached for his GM interview about new statistics and still judges players by batting average, RBI, homers, ERA etc. And I wasn't saying the Mariners specifically, I was saying a Mariners-type front office.

[caulfield12]

For the players and their development. Too many people pretend like player's aren't affected by a s***ty environment. It's about managing to put together an environment where the players can semble some sort of argument in their heads that they should put in their work every day and try to win. Getting us salary relief that we don't currently need to sign some overpriced player from a weak free agent class to ANOTHER bad contract isn't worth frustrating the guys you are trying to develop into a "core."

 

 

Who is more likely to do that in a development season?

 

Players playing out the string and waiting for next year or retirement, like a Peavy/Rios/Dunn/Konerko....or guys with the fire to play like Eaton, Garcia or maybe even an Andy Wilkins who has a ton of skeptics to prove wrong.

 

Obviously, Beckham/DeAza/Ramirez/Flowers...and even Viciedo at this stage...are what they are. How does continuing to run them out there everyday not contribute to that same s***ty environment?

 

If the major argument is trying to maximize their trade value, fine. But that's not exactly leading to a healthy environment for a team. either. This was never going to be a year of stability/consistency/cohesiveness (especially the bullpen). Going into 2014, it looked like we had 5-6 positions that would be changing before 2015.

 

The only thing that's changed about that scenario is Conor is sticking so far at 3B, and Viciedo's on the way out (with major questions now about Davidson, E. Johnson and Semien). A.Garcia got hurt and Abreu/Eaton (arguably) have proven themselves. Then you have Alexei. Everything else is in flux, other than Sale/Quintana at the top of the rotation.

Edited July 24, 2014 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

I was listening to an old Baseball Prospectus podcast the other day that talked about how Jack Z was coached for his GM interview about new statistics and still judges players by batting average, RBI, homers, ERA etc. And I wasn't saying the Mariners specifically, I was saying a Mariners-type front office.

 

They didn't put that defense in place (from 3-4 years ago) with Endy Chavez/Franklyn Gutierrez/Jack Wilson/Ichiro using any type of offensive statistics that I've ever heard of.

 

[Bigsoxhurt35]

I'm sorry.

I'm not. I'm from Ohio. I actually like the Tigers park. Been there a lot

[iamshack]

They didn't put that defense in place (from 3-4 years ago) with Endy Chavez/Franklyn Gutierrez/Jack Wilson/Ichiro using any type of offensive statistics that I've ever heard of.

This came out awhile back. His assistant was the advanced metrics guy that put that defense in place. He's since been fired.

[Feeky Magee]

They didn't put that defense in place (from 3-4 years ago) with Endy Chavez/Franklyn Gutierrez/Jack Wilson/Ichiro using any type of offensive statistics that I've ever heard of.

One of those speaking out is Blengino, the former No. 2 in Zduriencik’s front office. Blengino, who was working for the Milwaukee Brewers with Zduriencik at the time, said he authored virtually the entire job application package Zduriencik gave the Mariners in 2008, depicting a dual-threat candidate melding traditional scouting with advanced statistical analysis.

 

Blengino said he prepared the package because he was versed in the hot trend of using advanced stats for team decisions.

 

“Jack portrayed himself as a scouting/stats hybrid because that’s what he needed to get the job,” Blengino said. “But Jack never has understood one iota about statistical analysis. To this day, he evaluates hitters by homers, RBI and batting average and pitchers by wins and ERA. Statistical analysis was foreign to him. But he knew he needed it to get in the door.”

 

The Seattle Times obtained a copy of the package, which talks of rebuilding with minimal pain through shrewd drafts, undervalued free agents and a “vast pipeline of young, homegrown star-caliber talent.” Advanced stats charts ranked every major-leaguer and top minor-leaguers, while computer spreadsheets depicted each team’s positional depth and payroll commitments.

 

Zduriencik declined to speak about his stats knowledge or Blengino’s role in the package.

 

It’s hardly unusual in the corporate world for trusted assistants to design job applications. But after initial success, Zduriencik had a slew of failed player moves — coinciding with his eventual decision to push Blengino out.

 

“Jack tried to destroy me,” Blengino said.

 

Things started off well in 2009, with Blengino arriving alongside Zduriencik from the Brewers and assuming a powerful role of raising the Mariners’ talent any way possible. He coordinated big-picture elements of the annual draft, integrating advanced analytics into selections.

 

Blengino advised Zduriencik on key moves in a surprising 85-win first season, including the signature acquisition of outfielder Franklin Gutierrez.

 

“It was the Jack and Tony show that first year,” a former front-office member said.

 

But things unraveled in a turmoil-plagued 2010, when the Mariners lost 101 games.

 

Zduriencik fired manager Don Wakamatsu. Blengino said Zduriencik — needing to further finger-point — soon marginalized him as “the stats guy” despite his scouting background and the draft work that earned him a team “President’s Award” in 2009.

 

In 2011, Zduriencik imported longtime associate Ted Simmons as a senior adviser and increased responsibilities for second-year assistant GM Jeff Kingston, pushing Blengino from his inner circle. Zduriencik received a three-year contract extension that August and Blengino said Zduriencik told him: “Now, we do things my way.”

 

Blengino said Zduriencik became obsessed with power hitters, ignoring defense, baserunning and roster construction. He said the GM also dismissed the importance of evaluating players within the context of their contract values.

 

http://seattletimes.com/html/mariners/2022...iners08xml.html

[GreenSox]

There has been nothing on Alexei being traded. There are not many teams in contention with a need at SS, so I think he ends the season on the Sox.

Mariners. Gives them a right handed hitter they need too.

There's really been nothing on any Sox player other than vague rumors.

Edited July 25, 2014 by GreenSox

[Baron]

Mariners. Gives them a right handed hitter they need too.

There's really been nothing on any Sox player other than vague rumors.

 

 

Look at the players we are trying to trade and that explains why there are no rumors. I'm not expecting any trades from us this trade deadline.

[Eminor3rd]

Who is more likely to do that in a development season?

 

Players playing out the string and waiting for next year or retirement, like a Peavy/Rios/Dunn/Konerko....or guys with the fire to play like Eaton, Garcia or maybe even an Andy Wilkins who has a ton of skeptics to prove wrong.

 

Obviously, Beckham/DeAza/Ramirez/Flowers...and even Viciedo at this stage...are what they are. How does continuing to run them out there everyday not contribute to that same s***ty environment?

 

If the major argument is trying to maximize their trade value, fine. But that's not exactly leading to a healthy environment for a team. either. This was never going to be a year of stability/consistency/cohesiveness (especially the bullpen). Going into 2014, it looked like we had 5-6 positions that would be changing before 2015.

 

The only thing that's changed about that scenario is Conor is sticking so far at 3B, and Viciedo's on the way out (with major questions now about Davidson, E. Johnson and Semien). A.Garcia got hurt and Abreu/Eaton (arguably) have proven themselves. Then you have Alexei. Everything else is in flux, other than Sale/Quintana at the top of the rotation.

 

Yeah, if we could simply choose to have all good players instead of bad players, we would do that and not be having this discussion at all.

 

But giving Danks' starts to Matt Zaleski or whatever is going to significantly worsen the team's ability to take itself seriously. And there's just so little we're going to get in return. We're not going to get decent prospects for a 4 ERA soft tosser with bad peripherals who is owed $38m over 2 and a half seasons. We're just not.

[flavum]

Look at the players we are trying to trade and that explains why there are no rumors. I'm not expecting any trades from us this trade deadline.

 

I think maybe De Aza as a small move from a contending team that wants some bench insurance.

 

Other than that, I think the Sox are more likely to make moves in August than the next 7 days.

[BlackSox13]

Look at the players we are trying to trade and that explains why there are no rumors. I'm not expecting any trades from us this trade deadline.

Good point. If the tables were turned and the Sox were looking to acquire players that have been speculated ( Beckham, de aza, Viciedo, Dunn, Ramirez, danks), I would only have interest in Ramirez and possibly Viciedo ( only 25) and that's it.

[GreenSox]

The Indians got a promising AA pitcher named Corey Kluber for 32 year old Jake Westbrook and his $11 mill annual salary, so I would think we could get a promising pitcher or 2 for danks. Not looking for "ML ready" for Danks and the like.

[brian310]

Yankees are talking to Padres and Rockies about Kennedy and de La Rosa. Hope talks can heat up with us.

[Eminor3rd]

Yankees are talking to Padres and Rockies about Kennedy and de La Rosa. Hope talks can heat up with us.

 

Both those guys are substantially more desirable options. Danks would be the emergency consolation prize

[witesoxfan]

Both those guys are substantially more desirable options. Danks would be the emergency consolation prize fat chick.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Aka Melissa McCarthy or Fat Amy instead of a Victoria's Secret model from South America

[Jose Abreu]

Hm.

Chicago White Sox ‏@whitesox 2m

WATCH: John Danks talks about making #WhiteSox fans proud and his love for Chicago: http://atmlb.com/1tKKTYW