Yanks on Danks

[The Ultimate Champion]

John Danks lhp

5 years/$65M (2012-16)

 

5 years/$65M (2012-16)

signed extension with Chicago White Sox 12/23/11 (avoided arbitration)

$7.5M signing bonus (paid between 6/12 and 10/12)

12:$0.5M, 13:$14.25M, 14:$14.25M, 15:$14.25M, 16:$14.25M

full no-trade clause for 2012

may block trades to six clubs annually for 2013-16 (for 2014, no-trade list includes Baltimore, Oakland, Toronto and Washington)

 

2 more unknown teams in Danks' NTC

[BlackSox13]

EMinor I think posted something like $38M as what is owed to Danks. To get that figure in Marlins territory what do we have to eat, $15M+ or more? What could the Marlins possibly send us that would be worth eating that much cash, and why would the Marlins what to part with such a valuable prospect or package of prospects for John Danks of all players?

 

Makes no sense unless the Marlins are not being the Marlins. Maybe they can offer something the Sox like a bit, get the Sox to cover Danks' 2014 salary, and the Marlins think they could dump him later? Makes no sense. It's the baseball chewbacca defense & I am confused. I do not believe the Marlins trade rumors no sir TYVM.

It really doesn't make any sense at all. I'm confused too buddy. Initially I thought maybe the Marlins thought process was,if they move Salty to the Sox then technically the Marlins are only taking on roughly 7M more per year by acquiring Danks. Maybe throw in a low level prospect to the Sox and call it a day. But, then what happens with Flowers? Would he be part of the deal or better yet maybe Nieto and the Sox platoon Flowers and Salty?

 

It could kinda sorta in a round about f***ed up way make some kinda half-assed sense, maybe?

[The Ultimate Champion]

It really doesn't make any sense at all. I'm confused too buddy. Initially I thought maybe the Marlins thought process was,if they move Salty to the Sox then technically the Marlins are only taking on roughly 7M more per year by acquiring Danks. Maybe throw in a low level prospect to the Sox and call it a day. But, then what happens with Flowers? Would he be part of the deal or better yet maybe Nieto and the Sox platoon Flowers and Salty?

 

It could kinda sorta in a round about f***ed up way make some kinda half-assed sense, maybe?

I'd make that trade.

 

Of course I'd make just about any trade, trades are awesome.

 

Now the Marlins did eat cash on Ozzie, they did eat cash on Heath Bell, so.... maybe they'd take on a potentially bad deal for a short period and then look to dump it later even if they had to eat cash again?

 

Like, Marlins offer a decent low level prospect the Sox like, the Sox pretty much pay for Danks in 2014, the Marlins then use Danks this year and part of next hoping to dump him while eating $5M or less or so? Those shady f***ers are so cheap you just know they are up to something. I don't buy it though. I just can't.

[Jose Abreu]

Dan Hayes ‏@DanHayesCSN 3m

Robin Ventura said John Danks is still starter for Thurs. Last year #WhiteSox scratched Jake Peavy in anticipation of a trade.

[Feeky Magee]

Point worth noting on Saltalamacchia, he ranks 95th of 96 in catcher framing.

[BlackSox13]

I'd make that trade.

 

Of course I'd make just about any trade, trades are awesome.

 

Now the Marlins did eat cash on Ozzie, they did eat cash on Heath Bell, so.... maybe they'd take on a potentially bad deal for a short period and then look to dump it later even if they had to eat cash again?

 

Like, Marlins offer a decent low level prospect the Sox like, the Sox pretty much pay for Danks in 2014, the Marlins then use Danks this year and part of next hoping to dump him while eating $5M or less or so? Those shady f***ers are so cheap you just know they are up to something. I don't buy it though. I just can't.

I'm thinking if the Marlins are truly interested the deal would start with Salty and Danks. Maybe the Marlins figure to use Danks for the rest of the season for a playoff push as well as hope like hell Danks pitches well enough to move Danks this winter or like you said sometime next season when their injured pitchers start coming back.

 

What could make a deal more credible is with Salty's injury this year, he ( like Danks) isn't holding much value so it would be an exchange of bad contracts. Sox get a left handed catcher and the Marlins get a pitcher for their playoff push. I would only be willing to eat Danks 2014 salary and that's if the Marlins send a low level prospect back to the Sox. Danks 2015/16 salary is all on the Marlins.

 

The scenerio were talking about would make much more sense if not for the Marlins being the trade partner. I just cannot get past that.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I'm not sure we'll have to eat anything on this.

 

Even the NY people aren't acting as though Danks is a massive overpayment. Sherman called Danks a mid-tier arm & the other stuff is about the Yanks not loving the idea of Danks contract. It could simply be that NY is telling us through the media "Hey look, we'll take this guy but there's no way in hell we're giving you a player, you ought to be thankful we're willing to take on the deal." That sort of thing. It hasn't (at least that I've seen) come out that NY views Danks as a #5 and his salary obligations as unmanageable and a total barrier to any deal as it stands.

 

Heyman is talking about the player(s) coming back as a hangup. Okay, we're not getting s***, oh well. But it's also possible that the Sox FO might view this deadline as a win just by opening up more future flexibility going into the organizational meetings & offseason.

 

Also we really have no leverage at all IMO. The only way we have leverage is if we know there is another team we can dump Danks off on if we want to. I don't think we can assume there is. The only other major suitor it appears is the Marlins and that pretty much has to be a deal where we eat a significant amount of money doesn't it? Maybe the Sox have the Dodgers on the backburner or something, and maybe they would take his deal for nothing or take on a smaller bad deal. But I don't see where we'd hvae any real leverage. We know Danks is what he is at this point physically and really all we have in our favor is the *chance* that Danks continues to evolve/mature as a pitcher and can find sustained success with what he has. But whatever the odds are on that it's certainly not a given, however his salary obligations are a given, and the difference in return between a better looking John Danks with less $$$ owed a year from now and salary relief right now probably is not worth the risk. What happens if we pass up a chance to dump the contract now and then find ourselves a year from now wondering WTF to do when he's getting shelled with an ERA above 5.50 and 3 other lefties are outperforming him every time out?

 

You've brought up leverage a few times here. I disagree. I think the fact that the Sox are seemingly close to being a playoff team and the fact that Danks is under contract for a few more years, thus making him a potential part of said playoff team gives the Sox some leverage.

 

They absolutely do not HAVE to trade him, therefor leverage is there.

 

[IlliniKrush]

We have $46M in payroll commitments for next year with Danks. I see no reason why we can't afford a $120M payroll in 2015 if we so choose. That's $74M in available space with only a couple of arbitration eligible players. That's more than enough money to fill all the needs you listed above (2B will be filled internally). Cash flow will not be our problem this coming offseason, finding a way to spend it all efficiently will be, which makes moving Danks less valuable to us.

 

Furthermore, it's not like we have a ton of rotational depth. We're currently starting one guy who was released earlier this year and another guy who made his major league debut at 29 years of age. We basically have nothing behind them at AAA (Beck has proven nothing yet IMO), so things could get ugly until Rodon is ready. I'm not a Danks supporter by any means, but him eating 200 innings with a decent percentage of quality starts has more value to us than his WAR will indicate. I have no problem trading Danks, but salary relief alone won't make us better for 2015. We need something back for him, even if it's a fairly insignificant piece, or else keep him as an over-priced #4 starter for another year. Entering the offseason with three holes in our rotation is not ideal by any means.

Guys that "eat innings" while not providing a ton of actual value in terms of WAR are available every off season. At this point, Danks is turning into "just a guy"

 

I get that you don't want to give him away for literally nothing, but what I'm saying is, if they are offering some mid-tier prospect, Rick shouldn't be really playing hard ball expecting a lot more considering the pitcher he is now, and the bad contract over the next 2 years.

 

You've brought up leverage a few times here. I disagree. I think the fact that the Sox are seemingly close to being a playoff team and the fact that Danks is under contract for a few more years, thus making him a potential part of said playoff team gives the Sox some leverage.

 

They absolutely do not HAVE to trade him, therefor leverage is there.

The Yankees absolutely do not HAVE to trade for him either. Leverage can work both ways, pretty easily. No one's dying for John Danks.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Guys that "eat innings" while not providing a ton of actual value in terms of WAR are available every off season. At this point, Danks is turning into "just a guy"

 

I get that you don't want to give him away for literally nothing, but what I'm saying is, if they are offering some mid-tier prospect, Rick shouldn't be really playing hard ball expecting a lot more considering the pitcher he is now, and the bad contract over the next 2 years.

 

 

The Yankees absolutely do not HAVE to trade for him either. Leverage can work both ways, pretty easily. No one's dying for John Danks.

 

This is true, there's leverage both ways. I'm simply responding to him saying the Sox don't have any leverage, which I believe is false.

 

Apparently competing teams think they could win with him. Sox could very well be a competing team next year.

[GreenSox]

Now we're pining for Salty and his .228 batting average? Good lord (I realize he walks some). He also has defensive holes in his game. (Flowers is a better framer, and may be a better thrower too). The grass is always greener........

 

2b, RF, and LF are far bigger issues than catcher. A Garcia might fix RF. Johnson might fix 2B. But right now, they are bigger issues.

 

Young talent please.

We trade for Salty we have traded for a mediocre catcher.

Edited July 31, 2014 by GreenSox

[BlackSox13]

Now we're pining for Salty and his .228 batting average? Good lord (I realize he walks some). He also has defensive holes in his game. (Flowers is a better framer, and may be a better thrower too). The grass is always greener........

 

2b, RF, and LF are far bigger issues than catcher. A Garcia might fix RF. Johnson might fix 2B. But right now, they are bigger issues.

 

Young talent please.

We trade for Salty we have traded for a mediocre catcher.

Amazing how people read way to much into things. Nobody is " pining" , just trying to understand why the Marlins are supposed to be interested in Danks and what a potential deal might look like. A team like the Marlins will not take on a salary like Danks unless they move salary in return and that salary would likely be Salty's.

 

By no means do I want Salty. Much prefer a deal with the Yanks.

[IlliniKrush]

Now we're pining for Salty and his .228 batting average? Good lord (I realize he walks some). He also has defensive holes in his game. (Flowers is a better framer, and may be a better thrower too). The grass is always greener........

 

2b, RF, and LF are far bigger issues than catcher. A Garcia might fix RF. Johnson might fix 2B. But right now, they are bigger issues.

 

Young talent please.

We trade for Salty we have traded for a mediocre catcher.

False. We're not acquiring anyone to play RF for next season. It's not an issue compared to C.

 

C is at the very top of the list of needs. It's as important as anything else at this point.

[LittleHurt05]

Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal · 1m

Told that Danks will take mound for #WhiteSox in Detroit at 1:08 p.m. ET. One phone could change everything, but that is the plan.

[Baron]

Welp take Danks off the list

[BlackSox13]

Welp take Danks off the list

No way, never give up! Detroit is looking for a starter so maybe in a strange twist of fate Danks takes the mound for Detroit against the Sox.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Welp take Danks off the list

 

Good.

[Baron]

I think people need to start understand this. Nobody is going to give you good prospects and take on a huge salary for a decent pitcher at best. Nobody wants a terrible defensive OF player with a streaky offense. Nobody wants a mentally weak 2nd baseman who has been hitting terrible since the trade rumors have come out. Ofcourse as I say this one might get traded but still...The White Sox dont exactly have the best parts to sell off this trade deadline.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Baron

[The Ultimate Champion]

Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal · 1m

Told that Danks will take mound for #WhiteSox in Detroit at 1:08 p.m. ET. One phone could change everything, but that is the plan.

Isn't the deadline like 3pm CT or something like that every year? If so that's 3 hours after game time. Sox shouldn't be expected to mess up his routine. If he's dealt they'll pull him late.

[Dunt]

Ken Rosenthal @Ken_Rosenthal · 1m

Told that Danks will take mound for #WhiteSox in Detroit at 1:08 p.m. ET. One phone could change everything, but that is the plan.

 

Well, looks like I just became a lot less interested in this trade deadline. Get rid of Beckham at least!

[peavy44]

Doesn't look like he be traded or anyone

[peavy44]

Well, looks like I just became a lot less interested in this trade deadline. Get rid of Beckham at least!

 

 

 

No one wants beckham maybe in august he be gone

[LittleHurt05]

Isn't the deadline like 3pm CT or something like that every year? If so that's 3 hours after game time. Sox shouldn't be expected to mess up his routine. If he's dealt they'll pull him late.

 

You don't risk him getting injured though. I'm sure they have had enough discussions with other teams that everyone knows where they stand. They aren't close to a deal with anyone, so unless someone ups their offer before game time, no reason to mess with the rotation.

[The Ultimate Champion]

You've brought up leverage a few times here. I disagree. I think the fact that the Sox are seemingly close to being a playoff team and the fact that Danks is under contract for a few more years, thus making him a potential part of said playoff team gives the Sox some leverage.

 

They absolutely do not HAVE to trade him, therefor leverage is there.

I very strongly diagree with the bolded. We're still a few core pieces away from being at that point. Maybe a couple of them will come in-house, like a 2B for one, but we won't know until they are here showing themselves as MLB ballplayers. For all purposes we're a contender no sooner than 2016, that's how we should approach the deadline & offseason.

 

Danks is a back end starter getting paid like a mid-rotation starter. There are several contracts that are worse, and Danks isn't too much of an overpayment, and Danks *could* even perform up to his deal or even slightly exceed it assuming he continues to develop into a different type of pitcher. But I'm not seeing any leverage here in possessing a likely back-end SP at market value or above that isn't in demand. If there's no real demand where does our leverage come from?

 

No we don't *have* to trade Danks but if we pass this up and keep him we could really end up regretting it. The Yanks are in a tough spot ATM where they need SP and can't afford much, and so maybe the extent of our leverage in negotiations is forcing them to take on at least 90% or more of the remaining deal. Maybe there's a good amount of leverage in that.

[Baron]

New York Post just posted an article about the Yankees-White Sox discussing Danks and Dayan.

[The Ultimate Champion]

You don't risk him getting injured though. I'm sure they have had enough discussions with other teams that everyone knows where they stand. They aren't close to a deal with anyone, so unless someone ups their offer before game time, no reason to mess with the rotation.

He's not going to get hurt starting a game. He's porbably safer sticking to his routines anyway.

 

I wouldn't read into any of this. Obviously the Sox are going to assume he'll still be here because he';s still here now. But the Sox likely want to shed his deal & the Yankees definitely seem to be interested, and so if it comes together the deal will go down. Please happen. Even for a bag of balls. Maybe we should all get down on our knees and pray for balls?