7/23 Games

[LDF]

 

 

Engel is an exciting kind of a player. I really hope he can make it. I like these underdog kind of players.

 

good job of finding more info on our other prospects.

[royoung]

I'm encouraged by Luis Martinez debut season. He is a long, long way off, but the scouting report at age 17 was plus fastball and a good curve, it's obviously working for him.

[Jake]

I'll direct your attention to this Andy Wilkins discussion from last year: http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=89196

[southsider2k5]

Sox fans have a little something to get excited about for a position that will likely have a void soon and of course you want to come along and piss on it. Outside of pessimism, does anything at all make you happy?

 

It is one thing to be excited. It is quite another when people are suggesting the team cut major leaguers to make room for what is exceedingly probably a fluke.

[southsider2k5]

I understand what you are getting at here, but this is somewhat misleading. Of that list, only Gartrell was ever considered a real prospect while in the Sox system. The other three were MiLB filler guys old for level.

 

Wilkins is not a high end prospect, but I'd still say he's a prospect, and his 25 HR in IL play (and we're still in July) do mean a lot more to me than what Johnson, Restovich or Eldred put up.

 

And Wilkins has never been considered a "real" prospect either.

[BlackSox13]

It is one thing to be excited. It is quite another when people are suggesting the team cut major leaguers to make room for what is exceedingly probably a fluke.

Were also talking about cutting a guy ( Dunn) who isn't producing, hasn't been producing, most fans are not happy with and will likely/ thankfully not be with the Sox next season. The Sox have more to gain by giving Wilkins a look than 2 more months of Dunn. Even of Wilkins shows he's not the real deal at least the Sox will know going into the off season. Who knows, maybe some team like the Pirates come calling looking for a guy like Wilkins and the Sox can grab some kind of young raw pitching talent.

 

I agree its more than likely Wilkins doesn't amount to much in a major league uniform but the Sox stand nothing to lose by cutting their losses with Dunn ( if he isn't traded) and see what Wilkins can do. I am not counting on Wilkins, just willing to give him a shot is all.

[royoung]

Were also talking about cutting a guy ( Dunn) who isn't producing, hasn't been producing, most fans are not happy with and will likely/ thankfully not be with the Sox next season. The Sox have more to gain by giving Wilkins a look than 2 more months of Dunn. Even of Wilkins shows he's not the real deal at least the Sox will know going into the off season. Who knows, maybe some team like the Pirates come calling looking for a guy like Wilkins and the Sox can grab some kind of young raw pitching talent.

 

I agree its more than likely Wilkins doesn't amount to much in a major league uniform but the Sox stand nothing to lose by cutting their losses with Dunn ( if he isn't traded) and see what Wilkins can do. I am not counting on Wilkins, just willing to give him a shot is all.

 

I think it's funny to watch the sentiment on Dunn swing wildly over the course of his contract when at it's completion he will give the White Sox basically what his career lines have been if you factor in age related regression. It's gone from excitement (finally a left handed middle of the order bat!), to unrequited bitterness and unmerciful booing, to discussing re-signing him, to now wanting to cut him thanks to an organization filler having a hot week. Andy Wilkins completely deserves a September callup when the roster expand, but Dunn's production/value is not tied to Wilkins in any way whatsoever. You make trades/cuts to make room for phenoms, not organization fillers. If you want to see what we got with him, give him some meaningless September at bats and a chance in Spring Training to win a bench spot.

[Jerksticks]

Were also talking about cutting a guy ( Dunn) who isn't producing, hasn't been producing, most fans are not happy with and will likely/ thankfully not be with the Sox next season. The Sox have more to gain by giving Wilkins a look than 2 more months of Dunn. Even of Wilkins shows he's not the real deal at least the Sox will know going into the off season. Who knows, maybe some team like the Pirates come calling looking for a guy like Wilkins and the Sox can grab some kind of young raw pitching talent.

 

I agree its more than likely Wilkins doesn't amount to much in a major league uniform but the Sox stand nothing to lose by cutting their losses with Dunn ( if he isn't traded) and see what Wilkins can do. I am not counting on Wilkins, just willing to give him a shot is all.

Yes. The Sox fanbase will applaud the end of Dunn no matter how it goes down. Like you, I say just pull the plug ASAP if at all possible.

[BlackSox13]

I think it's funny to watch the sentiment on Dunn swing wildly over the course of his contract when at it's completion he will give the White Sox basically what his career lines have been if you factor in age related regression. It's gone from excitement (finally a left handed middle of the order bat!), to unrequited bitterness and unmerciful booing, to discussing re-signing him, to now wanting to cut him thanks to an organization filler having a hot week. Andy Wilkins completely deserves a September callup when the roster expand, but Dunn's production/value is not tied to Wilkins in any way whatsoever. You make trades/cuts to make room for phenoms, not organization fillers. If you want to see what we got with him, give him some meaningless September at bats and a chance in Spring Training to win a bench spot.

Actually I have been consistent with Dunn. Ive been wanting him gone for a long while now due to his regression and contract but understood players like him are difficult to trade. Even last winter and into spring when a few were talking about releasing him before the 2014 season began, my stance was to hold out to see if he could be traded for something, anything. If he cannot be traded then I really see no problem with cutting him loose to give some at bats to a guy nearly ten years younger. This is of course just my opinion though.

 

I must reiterate that I'm not counting on Wilkins to be the future DH of this team,just willing to part ways with Dunn to see what Wilkins can do. If the Sox don't move Viciedo maybe try them as a tandem at DH. Just trying to think outside the box is all and be open to other possibilities.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Were also talking about cutting a guy ( Dunn) who isn't producing, hasn't been producing, most fans are not happy with and will likely/ thankfully not be with the Sox next season. The Sox have more to gain by giving Wilkins a look than 2 more months of Dunn. Even of Wilkins shows he's not the real deal at least the Sox will know going into the off season. Who knows, maybe some team like the Pirates come calling looking for a guy like Wilkins and the Sox can grab some kind of young raw pitching talent.

 

I agree its more than likely Wilkins doesn't amount to much in a major league uniform but the Sox stand nothing to lose by cutting their losses with Dunn ( if he isn't traded) and see what Wilkins can do. I am not counting on Wilkins, just willing to give him a shot is all.

 

 

Dunn has an .804 ops. Sox fans are so f***ing stupid. I was at the game the other night and people can't stand Dunn. Cheering the fact that they get to see Paulie one last time. I wanted to bang my head off the table.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Yes. The Sox fanbase will applaud the end of Dunn no matter how it goes down. Like you, I say just pull the plug ASAP if at all possible.

 

 

Haha the same people booing Dunn are out there cheering on the ghost of Paul Konerko.

[BlackSox13]

Yes. The Sox fanbase will applaud the end of Dunn no matter how it goes down. Like you, I say just pull the plug ASAP if at all possible.

 

If Dunn cannot be traded, I have no problem cutting him and never looking back.

[caulfield12]

I think it's funny to watch the sentiment on Dunn swing wildly over the course of his contract when at it's completion he will give the White Sox basically what his career lines have been if you factor in age related regression. It's gone from excitement (finally a left handed middle of the order bat!), to unrequited bitterness and unmerciful booing, to discussing re-signing him, to now wanting to cut him thanks to an organization filler having a hot week. Andy Wilkins completely deserves a September callup when the roster expand, but Dunn's production/value is not tied to Wilkins in any way whatsoever. You make trades/cuts to make room for phenoms, not organization fillers. If you want to see what we got with him, give him some meaningless September at bats and a chance in Spring Training to win a bench spot.

 

We have one of those, possibly, in Rodon.

 

Three possible phenoms in Anderson, Hawkins and Montas. (NOBODY IN ALL OF BASEBALL WILL USE THAT LABEL for Saladino, Sanchez and Semien).

 

If you want to push it, you include Adams and Micah Johnson, although that would be a MAJOR stretch.

 

 

Who would you propose should play LF, 2B, C and DH next year, assuming Alexei Ramirez is still around?

 

[BlackSox13]

Dunn has an .804 ops. Sox fans are so f***ing stupid. I was at the game the other night and people can't stand Dunn. Cheering the fact that they get to see Paulie one last time. I wanted to bang my head off the table.

I have to admit, that makes no sense whatsoever.

[BlackSox13]

St. Roostifer, you have to understand that if SS2K comes to Dick Allen's side in an argument you are just wrong, plain and simple.

Hmmm, you make an interesting point. I've changed me mind, I love Adam Dunn.

[NorthSideSox72]

And Wilkins has never been considered a "real" prospect either.

This is simply not true. He was a 5th round draft pick, which alone tells you he was considered significant in the Sox system. They also had him skip A ball to go to W-S. And he was ranked in the teens at times in three seasons, as high as 13th, in the Sox system. He absolutely was a prospect of some significance.

 

I'd also contend he is still a "prospect", though I wouldn't put him the teens right now. Bottom end of the T25 give or take probably.

 

[southsider2k5]

Were also talking about cutting a guy ( Dunn) who isn't producing, hasn't been producing, most fans are not happy with and will likely/ thankfully not be with the Sox next season. The Sox have more to gain by giving Wilkins a look than 2 more months of Dunn. Even of Wilkins shows he's not the real deal at least the Sox will know going into the off season. Who knows, maybe some team like the Pirates come calling looking for a guy like Wilkins and the Sox can grab some kind of young raw pitching talent.

 

I agree its more than likely Wilkins doesn't amount to much in a major league uniform but the Sox stand nothing to lose by cutting their losses with Dunn ( if he isn't traded) and see what Wilkins can do. I am not counting on Wilkins, just willing to give him a shot is all.

 

I am going to stop you in the first sentence.

 

A general manager should never, and I mean never, worry about if the fans are happy with a player or move. 99.9% of fans have no idea what it takes to run a major league franchise. Even the worst GM is light years better than "the fans".

[southsider2k5]

St. Roostifer, you have to understand that if SS2K comes to Dick Allen's side in an argument you are just wrong, plain and simple.

 

Sad, but true. Wait, can I change my opinion instead?

[BlackSox13]

I am going to stop you in the first sentence.

 

A general manager should never, and I mean never, worry about if the fans are happy with a player or move. 99.9% of fans have no idea what it takes to run a major league franchise. Even the worst GM is light years better than "the fans".

You're about that and I shouldn't have brought that into the discussion. I stand by the rest of my posts but I will leave the fan opinions out of it.

 

Sad, but true. Wait, can I change my opinion instead?

Nope, not in america!

[royoung]

Actually I have been consistent with Dunn. Ive been wanting him gone for a long while now due to his regression and contract but understood players like him are difficult to trade. Even last winter and into spring when a few were talking about releasing him before the 2014 season began, my stance was to hold out to see if he could be traded for something, anything. If he cannot be traded then I really see no problem with cutting him loose to give some at bats to a guy nearly ten years younger. This is of course just my opinion though.

 

I must reiterate that I'm not counting on Wilkins to be the future DH of this team,just willing to part ways with Dunn to see what Wilkins can do. If the Sox don't move Viciedo maybe try them as a tandem at DH. Just trying to think outside the box is all and be open to other possibilities.

 

Sorry, I did not mean to accuse you specifically of being fickle. My point is that while public opinion around Dunn has swirled, he's just being Dunn providing basic production at an over inflated cost. If we can't trade him, I don't see the benefit of humiliating him further by cutting him in his last month of his contract (possible playing career). We reserve the right to honor Konerko's aging career, but want to be vindictive against Adam Dunn?

[royoung]

We have one of those, possibly, in Rodon.

 

Three possible phenoms in Anderson, Hawkins and Montas. (NOBODY IN ALL OF BASEBALL WILL USE THAT LABEL for Saladino, Sanchez and Semien).

 

If you want to push it, you include Adams and Micah Johnson, although that would be a MAJOR stretch.

 

 

Who would you propose should play LF, 2B, C and DH next year, assuming Alexei Ramirez is still around?

 

I did not mean we have any phenom in waiting that I would propose making such a rash decision to open playing time for. Just generally speaking, if you have a Kris Bryant or Carlos Rodon ready and waiting in AAA there should be an urgency to use their production on the major league team. In this case with Andy Wilkins, there no such urgency.

[BlackSox13]

Sorry, I did not mean to accuse you specifically of being fickle. My point is that while public opinion around Dunn has swirled, he's just being Dunn providing basic production at an over inflated cost. If we can't trade him, I don't see the benefit of humiliating him further by cutting him in his last month of his contract (possible playing career). We reserve the right to honor Konerko's aging career, but want to be vindictive against Adam Dunn?

No need to apologize man as I wasn't offended. I have seen some fans sway back and forth on the issue and just wanted to clarify is all.

 

Personally, its not about being vindictive as it is about cutting ties for the last two months. I can see how I would come across as being vindictive given my rationale or lack there of ( lol) in my posts. I'm just ready to move on and give Wilkins a chance to show, if anything, what he can do. Worst case scenario is the Sox still end up with a gaping hole at DH to be filled this winter.

[Jerksticks]

Dunn has an .804 ops. Sox fans are so f***ing stupid. I was at the game the other night and people can't stand Dunn. Cheering the fact that they get to see Paulie one last time. I wanted to bang my head off the table.

 

You said it yourself man, they hate him. Do your really want to be the guy trying to change public opinion with OPS talk at this point? You literally have to watch EVERY game to see Dunn's value by adding up walks. Most fans turn on a game or go to a game and more than likely see Dunn do absolutely nothing. I'd say I get to watch about 3/4 of the games, which is arguably more than most fans, and even I feel like he is rarely in the middle of something interesting.

 

I feel like if we don't trade him then the Sox will honor the contract. I'm all for a trade of Dunn and a Paulie-led charge to the playoffs

[witesoxfan]

You said it yourself man, they hate him. Do your really want to be the guy trying to change public opinion with OPS talk at this point? You literally have to watch EVERY game to see Dunn's value by adding up walks. Most fans turn on a game or go to a game and more than likely see Dunn do absolutely nothing. I'd say I get to watch about 3/4 of the games, which is arguably more than most fans, and even I feel like he is rarely in the middle of something interesting.

 

I feel like if we don't trade him then the Sox will honor the contract. I'm all for a trade of Dunn and a Paulie-led charge to the playoffs

 

It's a good thing the front office makes roster moves based on who the fans hate and do not hate.

[royoung]

No need to apologize man as I wasn't offended. I have seen some fans sway back and forth on the issue and just wanted to clarify is all.

 

Personally, its not about being vindictive as it is about cutting ties for the last two months. I can see how I would come across as being vindictive given my rationale or lack there of ( lol) in my posts. I'm just ready to move on and give Wilkins a chance to show, if anything, what he can do. Worst case scenario is the Sox still end up with a gaping hole at DH to be filled this winter.

 

Gotcha! Glad we are on the same page.

 

Realistically, if Dunn isn't moved by the July 31st deadline he still could be moved through waivers in August similar to what happened with Rios and Thome. Thome was traded on August 31st, roster sizes increase on September 1st. Theoretically, we could do some awful three-headed platoon at DH with Konerko/Dunn/Wilkins for the remainder of the season without having to cut anyone.