Flowers and his magic glasses

[2nd_city_saint787]

So we're 11 games under .500 with Nieto as catcher? That can't be right.

 

4-15 with Nieto as the starter....Really don't know what to think of it. Tyler, before the last 2 weeks, has been dreadful offensively so it's not like they were missing his bat. But ya it is indeed true.

 

Tyler is the good luck charm.

[EvilMonkey]

I often think that Dunn needs glasses as well.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4-15 with Nieto as the starter....Really don't know what to think of it. Tyler, before the last 2 weeks, has been dreadful offensively so it's not like they were missing his bat. But ya it is indeed true.

 

Tyler is the good luck charm.

So it's Robin's fault for playing Nieto so much !

[Soxfest]

Glasses or no glasses I want someone else as starting catcher in 2015.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Glasses or no glasses I want someone else as starting catcher in 2015.

Hey I was calling for Flowers head last year but seriously how can you say that now? What if he get's his average up to .270 by seasons end and hit's like 10 more HR's ? That would be a decent enough sample size to give me pause.

[Soxfest]

Hey I was calling for Flowers head last year but seriously how can you say that now? What if he get's his average up to .270 by seasons end and hit's like 10 more HR's ? That would be a decent enough sample size to give me pause.

He has no chance to get his average to .270 none.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

He has no chance to get his average to .270 none.

And if I had told you on 7/12 when Tyler was batting .213 that on 7/26 he would be batting .243 you would have said the same thing.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I'm just "Going with the Flow" right now and having fun with this incredible stretch he's having. I don't expect him to be THIS hot for the next 2 months, basically because he's been one of the better hitters in baseball in that time, and I know that's just not who he's gonna be. I do think it's plausible that he's an above average catcher from here on out though. It's also plausible he completely fails at some point too.

 

Again, lets all just go with the Flow and enjoy how awesome him and them there magical glasses are right now.

 

 

 

 

 

[LittleHurt05]

4-15 with Nieto as the starter....Really don't know what to think of it. Tyler, before the last 2 weeks, has been dreadful offensively so it's not like they were missing his bat. But ya it is indeed true.

 

Tyler is the good luck charm.

 

Not once has Nieto caught Sale or Quintana, so that plays a major part in those stats.

[Feeky Magee]

Hey I was calling for Flowers head last year but seriously how can you say that now? What if he get's his average up to .270 by seasons end and hit's like 10 more HR's ? That would be a decent enough sample size to give me pause.

Okay, the dudes having fun about his glasses are chill with me, but you're on the naughty chair. He's hitting .243/.299/.350 with a .371 BABIP and a 35.4 K% (dead last in the entire MLB).

 

He's put the ball in play 166 times, for 62 hits. Applying the league average BABIP of .300 (his 2011 BABIP was .261, his 2012 .301 and his 2013 .261) to his line gives him 50 hits. Add his 6 homers, divide by his 280 at-bats and an average BABIP would have given him an average of a clean .200. Even assuming all 12 hits he loses were singles (which is generous because he's had extra-base hits that normally would have been outs, like that double which span and then hit the bag), that would leave Ordinary Luck Tyler Flowers with a line of .200/.260/.307.

 

He's just not an MLB hitter. He also ranks 66 of 96 in catcher framing, so it's not like there's some insane hidden value.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Not once has Nieto caught Sale or Quintana, so that plays a major part in those stats.

 

Solid point there, didn't think about that.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Okay, the dudes having fun about his glasses are chill with me, but you're on the naughty chair. He's hitting .243/.299/.350 with a .371 BABIP and a 35.4 K% (dead last in the entire MLB).

 

He's put the ball in play 166 times, for 62 hits. Applying the league average BABIP of .300 (his 2011 BABIP was .261, his 2012 .301 and his 2013 .261) to his line gives him 50 hits. Add his 6 homers, divide by his 280 at-bats and an average BABIP would have given him an average of a clean .200. Even assuming all 12 hits he loses were singles (which is generous because he's had extra-base hits that normally would have been outs, like that double which span and then hit the bag), that would leave Ordinary Luck Tyler Flowers with a line of .200/.260/.307.

 

He's just not an MLB hitter. He also ranks 66 of 96 in catcher framing, so it's not like there's some insane hidden value.

Dude you're preaching to the choir. I know he's a bad hitter I was only saying that IF he hits well for the rest of the season it would certainly make me rethink his suckiness.

[Eminor3rd]

Dude you're preaching to the choir. I know he's a bad hitter I was only saying that IF he hits well for the rest of the season it would certainly make me rethink his suckiness.

 

Isn't that true of literally every player in the MLB, though?

[Dick Allen]

Okay, the dudes having fun about his glasses are chill with me, but you're on the naughty chair. He's hitting .243/.299/.350 with a .371 BABIP and a 35.4 K% (dead last in the entire MLB).

 

He's put the ball in play 166 times, for 62 hits. Applying the league average BABIP of .300 (his 2011 BABIP was .261, his 2012 .301 and his 2013 .261) to his line gives him 50 hits. Add his 6 homers, divide by his 280 at-bats and an average BABIP would have given him an average of a clean .200. Even assuming all 12 hits he loses were singles (which is generous because he's had extra-base hits that normally would have been outs, like that double which span and then hit the bag), that would leave Ordinary Luck Tyler Flowers with a line of .200/.260/.307.

 

He's just not an MLB hitter. He also ranks 66 of 96 in catcher framing, so it's not like there's some insane hidden value.

When they had that article about him last week talking about framing, I figured he must rank pretty high if he is the one being quoted. I looked it up and saw he was way down on the list. I figured I must have been missing something, but apparently not.

 

If his glasses are the reason he is hitting now, good for him. He isn't nearly as bad as his previous 100-120 ABs showed. No major league position player is. He'll cool off again and the call for Nieto will return, but might as well enjoy it while it lasts.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Isn't that true of literally every player in the MLB, though?

It is but thats not the point. I'm willing to give him some rope I'm arguing with those who think he is what he is. And he very well probably is but even if he does hit well the rest of the season there will still be those guys saying it's a fluke.

[Eminor3rd]

It is but thats not the point. I'm willing to give him some rope I'm arguing with those who think he is what he is. And he very well probably is but even if he does hit well the rest of the season there will still be those guys saying it's a fluke.

 

But they aren't saying it's a fluke just to hate on him -- it's because even when he's hot he isn't showing any signs of sustainability.

[greg775]

Okay, the dudes having fun about his glasses are chill with me, but you're on the naughty chair. He's hitting .243/.299/.350 with a .371 BABIP and a 35.4 K% (dead last in the entire MLB).

 

He's put the ball in play 166 times, for 62 hits. Applying the league average BABIP of .300 (his 2011 BABIP was .261, his 2012 .301 and his 2013 .261) to his line gives him 50 hits. Add his 6 homers, divide by his 280 at-bats and an average BABIP would have given him an average of a clean .200. Even assuming all 12 hits he loses were singles (which is generous because he's had extra-base hits that normally would have been outs, like that double which span and then hit the bag), that would leave Ordinary Luck Tyler Flowers with a line of .200/.260/.307.

 

He's just not an MLB hitter. He also ranks 66 of 96 in catcher framing, so it's not like there's some insane hidden value.

 

Aren't most catchers horses*** hitters in this day and age? Is Tyler really hitting .245? That's not bad for a good defensive catcher like him.

[Eminor3rd]

Aren't most catchers horses*** hitters in this day and age? Is Tyler really hitting .245? That's not bad for a good defensive catcher like him.

 

The MLB average line for a C is: .250/.314/.387 (96 wRC+)

Tyler Flowers' line is: .243/.299/.350 (80 wRC+)

 

Also, reports are mixed on how good he is at defense. I think it's safe to say he's improved a lot, but I'm not sure we can call him a guy who makes an 80 wRC+ "worth it."

[ptatc]

But they aren't saying it's a fluke just to hate on him -- it's because even when he's hot he isn't showing any signs of sustainability.

No player can sustain their production while "hot". The definition of hot is to be playing better than their norm. If you expect that of any player you will be wrong.

[Eminor3rd]

No player can sustain their production while "hot". The definition of hot is to be playing better than their norm. If you expect that of any player you will be wrong.

 

Right, I'm calling them hot streaks as opposed to "figuring it out" or whatever you want to call ti where he becomes a legitimate MLB player.

[shysocks]

The MLB average line for a C is: .250/.314/.387 (96 wRC+)

Tyler Flowers' line is: .243/.299/.350 (80 wRC+)

 

Also, reports are mixed on how good he is at defense. I think it's safe to say he's improved a lot, but I'm not sure we can call him a guy who makes an 80 wRC+ "worth it."

There was an article on Fangraphs a little while back about offense improving steadily over time for catchers, and that perhaps their positional adjustment for WAR needs to be changed a bit. Not sure what to think since, regardless of offense, it will always be one of the toughest positions to fill.

[Feeky Magee]

Aren't most catchers horses*** hitters in this day and age? Is Tyler really hitting .245? That's not bad for a good defensive catcher like him.

It's a completely unsustainable .243, and it's also come along with a collapse in his power. If he produces the same whiff rates next year we should be looking at about a .200 hitter.

[sin city sox fan]

I can't believe that Robin didn't ask him to start wearing glasses earlier in the season. He should have been told "either wear your glasses or go home"

[2nd_city_saint787]

I can't believe that Robin didn't ask him to start wearing glasses earlier in the season. He should have been told "either wear your glasses or go home"

 

Lol now you're really reaching with your Robin hate.

[southsider2k5]

I can't believe that Robin didn't ask him to start wearing glasses earlier in the season. He should have been told "either wear your glasses or go home"

 

This would be way funnier if I didn't think it was serious. That just makes me sad.