RockRaines Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jul 25, 2014 -> 11:28 AM) Is Howard one of those guys who a "change of scenery" will help, or is he just really bad? He used to be so good, its amazing the drop off. but seriously, the guy turned 30 and it all went downhill. Edited July 25, 2014 by RockRaines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jul 25, 2014 -> 11:28 AM) Is Howard one of those guys who a "change of scenery" will help, or is he just really bad? Bad and old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigsoxhurt35 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Haha no thanks! We're not Subway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 25, 2014 -> 09:32 AM) He used to be so good, its amazing the drop off. but seriously, the guy turned 30 and it all went downhill. He experienced a pretty significant lower body injury and given his shape, probably had a pretty hefty impact on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 25, 2014 -> 03:46 PM) Phillies have a lot of guys who make a lot of money that are going to get traded. And will likely have to eat a lot of cash in these contracts. Will be interesting to see what they do. Hamels, Lee, Utley, etc. Howard is just awful so I don't know who would pick him up. Hurt the last couple of years and just signed to an awful deal. Just another guy teams sign and ultimately want to get rid of to save the money. Here's a helpful hint: DONT SIGN THEM TO THESE TYPE CONTRACTS IN THE FIRST PLACE! Damn, I wish baseball had the same system as football. Most baseball players would be out on their butts two years after signing their mega deals. Teams almost always regret the deals shortly after the player signs them. How the hell did the NFL pull that off with its players union? Wow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 25, 2014 -> 01:55 PM) Just another guy teams sign and ultimately want to get rid of to save the money. Here's a helpful hint: DONT SIGN THEM TO THESE TYPE CONTRACTS IN THE FIRST PLACE! Damn, I wish baseball had the same system as football. Most baseball players would be out on their butts two years after signing their mega deals. Teams almost always regret the deals shortly after the player signs them. How the hell did the NFL pull that off with its players union? Wow. Says the guy who demands that Jerry spends, spends, spends, "It's not my money!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 25, 2014 -> 06:56 PM) Says the guy who demands that Jerry spends, spends, spends, "It's not my money!" I just laugh at the way some Sox fans on here want the Sox to have a payroll of about 10 million bucks total and the way they are so inconsistent. There's outrage on here over Danks, but so little over Dunn's deal. People say, "the deal made sense at the time." Sometimes I think people hated Ozzie so much now that he's gone they are so happy they give Hahn, Kenny, everybody a free pass. I laugh at baseball for giving a guy like Danks what he makes but when the Sox payroll is so low, I could give a s***. I don't want to dump him just because of what he makes. The Dunn and Rios contracts are so laughable. The Fielder contract. On and on. I'm talking about baseball as an industry. You can't deny football is awesome the way they can dump players at any time and not pay them any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illinilaw08 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 25, 2014 -> 01:15 PM) I just laugh at the way some Sox fans on here want the Sox to have a payroll of about 10 million bucks total and the way they are so inconsistent. There's outrage on here over Danks, but so little over Dunn's deal. People say, "the deal made sense at the time." Sometimes I think people hated Ozzie so much now that he's gone they are so happy they give Hahn, Kenny, everybody a free pass. I laugh at baseball for giving a guy like Danks what he makes but when the Sox payroll is so low, I could give a s***. I don't want to dump him just because of what he makes. The Dunn and Rios contracts are so laughable. The Fielder contract. On and on. I'm talking about baseball as an industry. You can't deny football is awesome the way they can dump players at any time and not pay them any more. I can absolutely deny that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 25, 2014 -> 02:15 PM) I just laugh at the way some Sox fans on here want the Sox to have a payroll of about 10 million bucks total and the way they are so inconsistent. There's outrage on here over Danks, but so little over Dunn's deal. People say, "the deal made sense at the time." Sometimes I think people hated Ozzie so much now that he's gone they are so happy they give Hahn, Kenny, everybody a free pass. I laugh at baseball for giving a guy like Danks what he makes but when the Sox payroll is so low, I could give a s***. I don't want to dump him just because of what he makes. The Dunn and Rios contracts are so laughable. The Fielder contract. On and on. I'm talking about baseball as an industry. You can't deny football is awesome the way they can dump players at any time and not pay them any more. I just laugh at your attempt to broadbrush all of our discussion here as "Stat haters" and "stat lovers" and "Sabes" and "everyone wants the payroll to be 10 million bucks" Because, really, if you actually read our arguments with each other, you would learn that it isnt anything that you are laughing at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 25, 2014 -> 02:15 PM) I just laugh at the way some Sox fans on here want the Sox to have a payroll of about 10 million bucks total and the way they are so inconsistent. There's outrage on here over Danks, but so little over Dunn's deal. People say, "the deal made sense at the time." Sometimes I think people hated Ozzie so much now that he's gone they are so happy they give Hahn, Kenny, everybody a free pass. I laugh at baseball for giving a guy like Danks what he makes but when the Sox payroll is so low, I could give a s***. I don't want to dump him just because of what he makes. The Dunn and Rios contracts are so laughable. The Fielder contract. On and on. I'm talking about baseball as an industry. You can't deny football is awesome the way they can dump players at any time and not pay them any more. Ignoring the requisite Ozzie love and Kenny/Hahn bashing, there's not a lot of outrage over Danks' deal. Before he got hurt, it looked like a decent deal. Even now with him returning to form, it still doesn't look too bad, especially when you consider some of the other deals out there. There's much more outrage over Dunn's deal, and you know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jul 25, 2014 -> 07:21 PM) Ignoring the requisite Ozzie love and Kenny/Hahn bashing, there's not a lot of outrage over Danks' deal. Before he got hurt, it looked like a decent deal. Even now with him returning to form, it still doesn't look too bad, especially when you consider some of the other deals out there. There's much more outrage over Dunn's deal, and you know it. I see a lot of hating on Dunn, but little about the actual deal. People simply say it made sense at the time. Do you deny this? I'd say a majority of the posts on Danks mention getting "rid of him now" and disdain about the money he makes and wanting to free it up. I don't mind Danks at all. I think he's had a fine season. He's the least of the Sox problems. Sale, Danks and Q are a great 3/5s of a rotation I think. After the performance last night you wonder why Sox aren't winning more with 4/5s of it sometimes doing well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Jul 25, 2014 -> 07:19 PM) I can absolutely deny that... Why? In football they celebrate the mega deals, but the minute the player sucks they can cut him loose the following season. Also, the teams all pretty much have a shot at the playoffs if they are not complete buffoons in the front office. Baseball there's all this wasted money floating out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 25, 2014 -> 01:55 PM) Just another guy teams sign and ultimately want to get rid of to save the money. Here's a helpful hint: DONT SIGN THEM TO THESE TYPE CONTRACTS IN THE FIRST PLACE! Damn, I wish baseball had the same system as football. Most baseball players would be out on their butts two years after signing their mega deals. Teams almost always regret the deals shortly after the player signs them. How the hell did the NFL pull that off with its players union? Wow. The MLB Player's Association is one of the strongest labor unions in the country. The NFL union has buckled to strikes twice in the past 30 years and lost a ton of leverage as a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 25, 2014 -> 02:32 PM) Why? In football they celebrate the mega deals, but the minute the player sucks they can cut him loose the following season. Also, the teams all pretty much have a shot at the playoffs if they are not complete buffoons in the front office. Baseball there's all this wasted money floating out there. Yeah, it's awesome how the NFL takes young people, pays them to run into each other headfirst at full speed for like three years, and then then kicks them to the curb after they start showing symptoms of permanent disability, leaving them to fend for themselves without any career skills as they deal with worsening symptoms of chronic brain damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 25, 2014 -> 02:31 PM) I see a lot of hating on Dunn, but little about the actual deal. People simply say it made sense at the time. Do you deny this? I'd say a majority of the posts on Danks mention getting "rid of him now" and disdain about the money he makes and wanting to free it up. I don't mind Danks at all. I think he's had a fine season. He's the least of the Sox problems. Sale, Danks and Q are a great 3/5s of a rotation I think. After the performance last night you wonder why Sox aren't winning more with 4/5s of it sometimes doing well. Yes, the Dunn deal DID make sense at the time. He was one of the most consistent players in the entire league who just so happened to possess a skillset that filled a gaping hole in what looked like a team that was about one gaping hole away from being a real contender. Careful analysis of his performance leading up to the deal show a remarkably stable and predictable career arc that saw him one to two years into a gradual decline that would see him as a market-rate value upfront and acceptably overpaid at the end of his contract. There was no way at all to predict the ~1% mental, fall-off-a-cliff, total collapse scenario that ensued, and frankly, if our front office made its decisions based on fear of flukey outcomes like Dunn's, you'd be posting livid every day calling for their heads for never "going for it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 25, 2014 -> 02:31 PM) I see a lot of hating on Dunn, but little about the actual deal. People simply say it made sense at the time. Do you deny this? I'd say a majority of the posts on Danks mention getting "rid of him now" and disdain about the money he makes and wanting to free it up. I don't mind Danks at all. I think he's had a fine season. He's the least of the Sox problems. Sale, Danks and Q are a great 3/5s of a rotation I think. After the performance last night you wonder why Sox aren't winning more with 4/5s of it sometimes doing well. Greg, I hated the Dunn acquisition from day 1, and I said so to whomever would listen. I had seen him play in the NL and just don't like that kind of player. Then, you have to consider the deal long term (4 yrs) and expensive ($60 large approx), and we lost a #1 draft choice. It was lose/lose. His terrible years in early part of his era did not surprise me. Actually, he is hitting better now than I would have guessed or predicted. I'll be glad to see him gone, but do not hate him personally. Far from it. Another poster said recently that the crowd really gets on him in a tasteless fashion; I hate to see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 25, 2014 -> 02:31 PM) I see a lot of hating on Dunn, but little about the actual deal. People simply say it made sense at the time. Do you deny this? I'd say a majority of the posts on Danks mention getting "rid of him now" and disdain about the money he makes and wanting to free it up. I don't mind Danks at all. I think he's had a fine season. He's the least of the Sox problems. Sale, Danks and Q are a great 3/5s of a rotation I think. After the performance last night you wonder why Sox aren't winning more with 4/5s of it sometimes doing well. The difference between Dunn and Danks is that there will be teams interested in Danks. I'm not saying the return will be great, but there's still a decent chance Danks can be dealt. There really never has been a time when Dunn could have been traded. People are saying deal Danks now because a deal could actually happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 25, 2014 -> 02:40 PM) Yeah, it's awesome how the NFL takes young people, pays them to run into each other headfirst at full speed for like three years, and then then kicks them to the curb after they start showing symptoms of permanent disability, leaving them to fend for themselves without any career skills as they deal with worsening symptoms of chronic brain damage. I think the NFL system is stupid. I think that if a team signs a player to a deal, that contract is obligated to be finished. Otherwise NFL players should just be able to look at their team's record and go "Oh, we were 4-12 this year, I'm opting out." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 26, 2014 -> 06:22 PM) I think the NFL system is stupid. I think that if a team signs a player to a deal, that contract is obligated to be finished. Otherwise NFL players should just be able to look at their team's record and go "Oh, we were 4-12 this year, I'm opting out." The NFL system is perfect for the teams/owners. It's all about the up-front money. The owner can cut the player after any season and is obligated to pay no more money. So let's say Dunn was an NFL player, after that first season he could have been let go with the team saving all that cash. Ditto Rios when he was sucking. They could cut him and boom, save all that money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 25, 2014 -> 12:32 PM) He used to be so good, its amazing the drop off. but seriously, the guy turned 30 and it all went downhill. True. And I really don't se us picking him up. But… He was still crushing right-handed pitching last year (.302/.357/.522/.878). Maybe he's done for good. Maybe he's just having a particularly terrible year (see Adam Dunn 2011) and can turn it around. He'll get sent to an American league team and we will see if he can hack it as a platoon DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted July 28, 2014 Share Posted July 28, 2014 QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 26, 2014 -> 03:47 PM) The NFL system is perfect for the teams/owners. It's all about the up-front money. The owner can cut the player after any season and is obligated to pay no more money. So let's say Dunn was an NFL player, after that first season he could have been let go with the team saving all that cash. Ditto Rios when he was sucking. They could cut him and boom, save all that money. So let's kill the small guy who actually makes the money for the team, kick him to the curb because they made an improper fiscal decision, and keep the wallets fat. Let's create signing bonuses and hold outs and poison pill contracts too. No, the NFL system is not a good one for the players, and that's how it should be. What happens when this system is in place and Chris Sale decides that "My career could be over on any given pitch and I know I'm worth more than $11 million, I'm just not going to show up to Spring Training until they give me $20 million?" Because of the current system, he knows he's signed to a contract and he simply can't make that request. Maybe think things through and consider all possible outcomes before declaring something to be a good idea. The NFL runs a system where teams are constantly cutting good players simply because they can no longer afford them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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