Is Ventura the worst manager in the history of MLB?

[SCCWS]

Or posting on message boards. We know all the answers and can tell you what should have been done the moment the play ends. It is funny people who say lack of experience is the problem have all the answers with less experience.

 

Actually Gillaspie has a terrible BA against lefties and he worked a walk against a pretty good one. Beckham is hitting over .300 against lefties this year and was hitting over .300 against Perkins lifetime. Baseball is a strange game

[Boopa1219]

This thread is stupid, that is all.

[Jake]

He was just extended so I doubt he gets fired

[ILMOU]

He was just extended so I doubt he gets fired

Nope, won't happen. They love him because of who he isn't. And that's rather specious reasoning when you think about it.

[peavy44]

Nope, won't happen. They love him because of who he isn't. And that's rather specious reasoning when you think about it.

 

 

I guess white sox management don't wanna win cus they aint winning s*** with ventura as manager

Edited July 27, 2014 by peavy44

[ILMOU]

I guess white sox management don't wanna win cus they aint winning s*** with ventura as manager

They want to win. There's just a cloyingly-sweet family atmosphere among JR's inner circle that makes objectivity difficult. I just hope that someone is actually evaluating Robin.

[Reddy]

I have a vote for the worst thread in the history of Soxtalk.

This.

[BigEdWalsh]

I have a vote for the worst thread in the history of Soxtalk.

First thing I did when I saw this thread was say, "Oh Jesus Christ". But seriously, Terry Bevington comes to my mind first.

 

[southsider2k5]

First thing I did when I saw this thread was say, "Oh Jesus Christ". But seriously, Terry Bevington comes to my mind first.

 

In my lifetime, Terry Bevington is so far ahead of this race it isn't even funny. The guy was an awful tactician, and his team's hated him. Ventura at least seems to have the respect of his players.

[flavum]

Ventura isn't a managerial genius, but I think next year will be more important to win. They have Sale and Abreu, so they owe it to themselves to try to put a team around them that has some expectations to win games. This year seems to be a feeling out process with some new guys, a ton of injuries, and some guys that have no shot of returning next year. Ventura's key year will be next year.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Ventura isn't a managerial genius, but I think next year will be more important to win. They have Sale and Abreu, so they owe it to themselves to try to put a team around them that has some expectations to win games. This year seems to be a feeling out process with some new guys, a ton of injuries, and some guys that have no shot of returning next year. Ventura's key year will be next year.

 

Accurate

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

This.

If sin city had said Robin is just plain bad maybe there wouldn't be so many posts calling it a stupid thread. Maybe some of you can manage to read between the lines. It doesn't take a baseball genius to see Robin's been caught a few times with his pants down ala Steve Lyons , totally oblivious to what's going on around him or incapable of thinking more than a few steps ahead.

 

Some of the best posters on here can see it and I believe they are totally objective. If sin city is trolling then I'd have to say so are the ones who will defend Robin no matter what . It's true the bullpen has been in constant flux and the bench doesn't have much flexibility so Robin is limited in his moves that will work out well thus leaving him open to more criticism. That, however, does not absolve him of doing the best he can with what he has and many of us do not see him doing that.

Edited July 27, 2014 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[kitekrazy]

Ventura's really bad strategically. He would have been a lot, lot better had he spent 5 years on a ML bench, managing in the minors, or something.

 

+1 I would probably label it as the "the most WTF front office decision of all time post Harrelson era"

 

I wonder how many retired MLB players would have taken the job with no managerial experience.

[sin city sox fan]

If sin city had said Robin is just plain bad maybe there wouldn't be so many posts calling it a stupid thread. Maybe some of you can manage to read between the lines. It doesn't take a baseball genius to see Robin's been caught a few times with his pants down ala Steve Lyons , totally oblivious to what's going on around him or incapable of thinking more than a few steps ahead.

 

Some of the best posters on here can see it and I believe they are totally objective. If sin city is trolling then I'd have to say so are the ones who will defend Robin no matter what . It's true the bullpen has been in constant flux and the bench doesn't have much flexibility so Robin is limited in his moves that will work out well thus leaving him open to more criticism. That, however, does not absolve him of doing the best he can with what he has and many of us do not see him doing that.

 

It's not a few times....its 2-3 times per week. If it was a game or two, it could be forgiven. However, when it happens over and over again with the clown never learning a lesson, its time for him to go.

 

Loved Robin as a player......can't stand him as a manager.

[BlackSox13]

In my lifetime, Terry Bevington is so far ahead of this race it isn't even funny. The guy was an awful tactician, and his team's hated him. Ventura at least seems to have the respect of his players.

Word!

 

Anyone that says Robin is the worst, likely wasn't around when Bevington was a manager. Good gawd he was light years beyond horrible. I doubt there's words in the English language that can properly describe just how horrible he was.

[southsider2k5]

Ventura isn't a managerial genius, but I think next year will be more important to win. They have Sale and Abreu, so they owe it to themselves to try to put a team around them that has some expectations to win games. This year seems to be a feeling out process with some new guys, a ton of injuries, and some guys that have no shot of returning next year. Ventura's key year will be next year.

 

One thing I think Ventura has been pretty good at is trying to not put the younger kids in a position to fail. He hasn't over-exposed a guy like Nieto who could easily be putting up terrible numbers in some less optimal match ups. He also let a guy like Conor win the job with his play, and not award it to either Keppinger or Davidson just simply on pedigree or salary. He respects his veterans and let's them dictate their play, and so when he takes them out, they don't have a problem with it, because they know it is for a good reason.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

It's not a few times....its 2-3 times per week. If it was a game or two, it could be forgiven. However, when it happens over and over again with the clown never learning a lesson, its time for him to go.

 

Loved Robin as a player......can't stand him as a manager.

Really the only way you could possibly help your own cause would be like a 2 page report of what his mistakes were and backing them up with why it was a mistake. Many times things such as bullpen moves you might consider foolish are based on how often a pitcher has been pitching . So you can't just say bring in so and so reliever every time. You'd have to back that up with games he was used the week prior and or stats against a player(s) he was brought in to face .

 

Just ranting about it without facts is like spitting into the wind or howling at the moon.

Edited July 28, 2014 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Vance Law]

Anyone that says Robin is the worst, likely wasn't around when Bevington was a manager.

 

Or how about John Ferrell. Red Sox won the World Series last year and now he, the manager, has the team in last place with a worse record than the White Sox. You have to give Robin props for deciding to make his team win more games than last year instead of less games as Ferrell is doing.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

One thing I think Ventura has been pretty good at is trying to not put the younger kids in a position to fail. He hasn't over-exposed a guy like Nieto who could easily be putting up terrible numbers in some less optimal match ups. He also let a guy like Conor win the job with his play, and not award it to either Keppinger or Davidson just simply on pedigree or salary. He respects his veterans and let's them dictate their play, and so when he takes them out, they don't have a problem with it, because they know it is for a good reason.

I think you can spin that either way with Nieto. He hasn't been put in a position to do much of anything really. He also probably saw a bit of himself in Conor, a LH who struggled when first given the chance but has a good approach and a good swing. Most people usually have some kind of failure before they succeed.

[LittleHurt05]

No, Ron Washington is

[IlliniKrush]

Or posting on message boards. We know all the answers and can tell you what should have been done the moment the play ends. It is funny people who say lack of experience is the problem have all the answers with less experience.

You're trotting out this line of thinking yet again? You realize this nonsense isn't any sort of legit defense of Robin, or any manager for that matter, right?

 

OK let's get this straight. If you haven't played and/or coached at the major league level, you are never allowed to comment/question anything about players or managers at the major league level, even if you have a great understanding of the game, rosters, etc.

 

Got it. Close down the board, I guess. And I guess this means the end for radio/TV etc.

[winninguglyin83]

Late to this thread.

 

One big question: What were the specific things he did wrong today?

 

Pulled Carroll after six? Lucky to get that much out of him.

 

Went to Bella? He had been pitching good. He just didn't respond well to the umpire shakedown.

 

Went to Guerra? Dustin Hermanson's not walking through that door.

 

It's not his vault that Viciedo and DeAza are guys who have no concept about how to put the ball in play and drive in a run from third with less than two outs.

 

silly thread.

[caulfield12]

Late to this thread. One big question: What were the specific things he did wrong today? Pulled Carroll after six? Lucky to get that much out of him. Went to Bella? He had been pitching good. He just didn't respond well to the umpire shakedown. Went to Guerra? Dustin Hermanson's not walking through that door. It's not his vault that Viciedo and DeAza are guys who have no concept about how to put the ball in play and drive in a run from third with less than two outs. silly thread.

 

 

 

 

If you're expecting DeAza to come through against a tough LH closer in that situation...well, good luck with that one.

 

It's not like L.Garcia, Sierra or Dunn would have been better bets...well, who knows? The way Tyler's been going recently, I would have more confidence in him than Viciedo.

Edited July 28, 2014 by caulfield12

[greg775]

Ventura isn't a managerial genius, but I think next year will be more important to win. They have Sale and Abreu, so they owe it to themselves to try to put a team around them that has some expectations to win games. This year seems to be a feeling out process with some new guys, a ton of injuries, and some guys that have no shot of returning next year. Ventura's key year will be next year.

The "wait til next year" stuff is kind of scary. You can do that year after year and next thing you know it's always 'wait til next year' if the team doesn't build up the roster. This year isn't on Robin as much as Hahn. If Robin keeps the team within five games of .500 it's a masterful job. If the team wins five games in September and plummets, not so great overall.

 

It's not a few times....its 2-3 times per week. If it was a game or two, it could be forgiven. However, when it happens over and over again with the clown never learning a lesson, its time for him to go.

 

Loved Robin as a player......can't stand him as a manager.

Probably most of the complaints are his handling of pitching matchups and not pinch hitting more in the late innings.

We can all stop right there. No manager in the history of the game could make the right call(s) with this bullpen. These guys simply cannot pitch on a consistent basis. Bella leads the laughably bad bullpen brigade. Don't judge Robin on pitching decisions (except that one game where he ran out of pitchers; that disgusted me). As far as pinch hitters, cmon. Batting Flowers today wouldn't have paid off. This team isn't exactly "deep" where you can effectively pinch hit much where it would make a difference.

 

Late to this thread.

 

One big question: What were the specific things he did wrong today?

 

Pulled Carroll after six? Lucky to get that much out of him.

 

Went to Bella? He had been pitching good. He just didn't respond well to the umpire shakedown.

 

Went to Guerra? Dustin Hermanson's not walking through that door.

 

It's not his vault that Viciedo and DeAza are guys who have no concept about how to put the ball in play and drive in a run from third with less than two outs.

 

silly thread.

Pretty good post when you read it a couple times. He's right IMO.

Edited July 28, 2014 by greg775

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

The "wait til next year" stuff is kind of scary. You can do that year after year and next thing you know it's always 'wait til next year' if the team doesn't build up the roster. This year isn't on Robin as much as Hahn. If Robin keeps the team within five games of .500 it's a masterful job. If the team wins five games in September and plummets, not so great overall.

 

 

Probably most of the complaints are his handling of pitching matchups and not pinch hitting more in the late innings.

We can all stop right there. No manager in the history of the game could make the right call(s) with this bullpen. These guys simply cannot pitch on a consistent basis. Bella leads the laughably bad bullpen brigade. Don't judge Robin on pitching decisions (except that one game where he ran out of pitchers; that disgusted me). As far as pinch hitters, cmon. Batting Flowers today wouldn't have paid off. This team isn't exactly "deep" where you can effectively pinch hit much where it would make a difference.

 

 

Pretty good post when you read it a couple times. He's right IMO.

That's the problem when you don't bother reading the whole thread or watch the game or read or take part in the game thread . Those were not the major points of contention. Trailing 4-3 Abreu led off the 9th against left hander Glen Perkins with a single and Robin pinch ran for him ( Leury Garcia ) because he's the tying run . Good move pretty accepted and expected strategy. PK pinch hits for Dunn and gets a single moving Leury to 3rd so its 1st and 3rd no outs. Another good move by Robin not letting the LH Dunn face the LH Perkins. Then the questionable move. Robin pinch runs for PK with Moises Sierra when De Aza who is batting .083 against LHers is 2 hitters away. Sierra is RH along with Flowers who is red hot and also on the bench. Now we all know PK is slow but is he the go ahead run . Maybe if Viceido who is up now hits a double Sierra scores whereas PK wouldn't or maybe Sierra can break up a DP since we've seen Tank hit into a few of those before.

 

Now Robin has known all year that his bench is a little short since PK can only pinch hit and not play any other position. SO maybe, just maybe you think ahead, ok what if PK gets on base I might need my other RH's to pinch hit with Perkins being lefty and all and De Aza being really bad this year against lefty's . SO if I pinch run for PK maybe it should be one of my faster pitcher's or a pitcher who's not a starter ( don't want them running the bases) but if I use a reliever and it goes extra innings I could need that pitcher. Or maybe I just wait before I pinch run for PK but I better pick out a reliever and tell him to stretch his legs and if the game ends up going 15 innings I'll cross that bridge when I get to it but the main thing is getting the tying run home. The main thing is getting Leury in from 3rd. That's the tying run and Perkins is one tough son of a gun. Damn it Viciedo K's Conor is up . He sucks against LH's too but not half as bad as De Aza and he 's has a good eye. Well hmm Conor works a walk now Sierra is at 2nd base and I can't use Sierra to pinch hit because he's pinch running but I still have Flower's since Nieto started and he's red hot. Ok so if Flowers pinch hits Sierra can still take De Aza's place in the OF and Flowers can take Neito's place but then I have no catcher if Flower's gets hurt. Ok Leury's still on 3rd. Yea maybe I shouldn't have had Sierra pinch run for PK .Maybe Rienzo could have run though we don't really know how fast he is but we do all know PK is about the slowest man in baseball. Robin has to know De Aza is terrible against LH this year . Sierra is a better choice so is Flowers but he wasted Sierra on the go ahead runner when just getting Leury in was the main thing.. So any way De Aza also K's Gordan flies out to left . Game Over.

 

Carrol pitched 6 strong innings but the reason he didnt start the 7th was because of a blister and I'm pretty sure most knowledgeable Sox fans said hey good job Carroll and weren't upset when Bellasario came in. Before he threw a pitch the umps said he had too much resin on his left sleeve and told him to take a bracelet or rubber band or something off that he was wearing under that sleeve and they cut off his sleeve at the elbow. Robin stayed in the dugout the entire time his pitcher is being messed with. That is kind of odd. I think most managers would've come out and said wtf why are you f***ing with my pitcher and to gauge how Bellasario felt about it. Well Bellasario was angry ( his post game comments)and proceeded to wet the bed. Walks the 1st hitter, then Thigpen visits the mound. Gives up a single next ,a wild pitch and another walk before he is replaced.

 

So these are the things that some of us questioned.