Moises Sierra

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I think we can all agree that what really excites fans about a young player is a blend of speed and power. Those guys like Trout and Puig and to a lesser extent Andrew McCutcheon and Carlos Gomez. They are a rare breed smashing HR's, flying all over the outfield and the bases ,making great catches and nailing runners with awesome throws.

 

I see some of those thing in Moises Sierra although he is in his mid 20's rather than his early 20's. He's fast, makes some outstanding catches and has a great arm .He's had some decent years in the minors nothing that would leap out at you to suggest he's a budding superstar. Has potential to hit for power being 6"1" 220 .

 

What I did notice is that he hasn't had a chance to get 400 AB's in one level since he was 22 in AA which looks like his best season in the minors. He reminds me a lot of Carlos Gomez actually not in his minor league numbers but in development. Gomez always had the great glove but didn't break out as a hitter until he was 27 .

 

Since the Sox picked him up he is hitting .304 with a .788 OPS in 102 AB's. All I'm saying is with his tools and size he needs to be looked at closer and deserves more playing time to see what he is. He is an exciting guy to watch certainly and without the chip on his shoulder of a Gomez or the preening of Puig. He's also appears to be a fun guy in the clubhouse. Thoughts ?

[glangon]

I think we can all agree that what really excites fans about a young player is a blend of speed and power. Those guys like Trout and Puig and to a lesser extent Andrew McCutcheon and Carlos Gomez. They are a rare breed smashing HR's, flying all over the outfield and the bases ,making great catches and nailing runners with awesome throws.

 

I see some of those thing in Moises Sierra although he is in his mid 20's rather than his early 20's. He's fast, makes some outstanding catches and has a great arm .He's had some decent years in the minors nothing that would leap out at you to suggest he's a budding superstar. Has potential to hit for power being 6"1" 220 .

 

What I did notice is that he hasn't had a chance to get 400 AB's in one level since he was 22 in AA which looks like his best season in the minors. He reminds me a lot of Carlos Gomez actually not in his minor league numbers but in development. Gomez always had the great glove but didn't break out as a hitter until he was 27 .

 

Since the Sox picked him up he is hitting .304 with a .788 OPS in 102 AB's. All I'm saying is with his tools and size he needs to be looked at closer and deserves more playing time to see what he is. He is an exciting guy to watch certainly and without the chip on his shoulder of a Gomez or the preening of Puig. He's also appears to be a fun guy in the clubhouse. Thoughts ?

 

I don't know if he is of the level of Puig or McCutcheon, but I agree that he needs more at bats. I think we need to face the fact the De Aza won't be with us next year and is a liabilty. I don't see any reason not to give Sierra a full-time shout untilt he end of the season to see if he is the real deal. We really don't have anyone else.

[Eminor3rd]

I don't think we should plan on it. Regardless, he could be a good 4th OF piece for us for the next couple years, and that's not insignificant.

[BlackSox13]

I like the idea of giving Sierra more at bats. Avi will be coming back and one of ADA,Tank or Sierra has to go which I'm pretty sure it will be ADA. Give Sierra at bats and let him determine his future with the Sox.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I don't think we should plan on it. Regardless, he could be a good 4th OF piece for us for the next couple years, and that's not insignificant.

Plan on what exactly ? I'm only saying he has the tools to be great like a lot of guys do but so few actually ever realize. I know he has more upside at this point than either De Aza or Tank but isn't getting the same chance . Get the guy some AB's . He's more important to the future of the Sox at this point than is De Aza . I know Robin want's to win games and put what he thinks is the best lineup out there nearly every day but the guy can run, throw, defend, hit and potentially hit for power. That's more potential and tools than either De Aza or Tank has and his AB's should reflect that because I fear when Avi comes back he will be riding the pine even more than he does now.

Edited August 4, 2014 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Eminor3rd]

Plan on what exactly ? I'm only saying he has the tools to be great like a lot of guys do but so few actually ever realize. I know he has more upside at this point than either De Aza or Tank but isn't getting the same chance . Get the guy some AB's . He's more important to the future of the Sox at this point than is De Aza . I know Robin want's to win games and put what he thinks is the best lineup out there nearly every day but the guy can run, throw, defend, hit and potentially hit for power. That's more potential and tools than either De Aza or Tank has and his AB's should reflect that because I fear when Avi comes back he will be riding the pine even more than he does now.

 

And De Aza will be gone next year, and he'll get his shot.

 

EDIT: Hopefully Viciedo is gone too.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Eminor3rd

[southsider2k5]

What I saw early from Sierra scared me. He seems like a low IQ baserunner and a guy who depends on his plus arm more than making the right play. I've seen him fly his cut-off man more than once trying to make a play, instead of making the smart throw and keeping a trail runner from taking an extra base, and eliminating a DP chance. He also doesn't seem like a very smart baserunner.

 

Maybe those are things that can be fixed, but mixing that, with the fact that Toronto was already ready to let the obviously talented kid walk away, makes me wonder if Sierra is someone that Ventura and his team have been really successful at finding good match ups for, and if some of his numbers are looking better because of that.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

And De Aza will be gone next year, and he'll get his shot.

 

EDIT: Hopefully Viciedo is gone too.

I hope he gets a shot sooner than that. For development purposes he needs all the AB's he can get. To further my comparison to Carlos Gomez , Gomez had 600+ AB's with the Twins in 2008 then for the next 3 years ,09, 10, 11 he got under 400 with the Twin and Brewers ,regardless of whether it was injuries or playing time he still didn't get the AB's. In 2013 he got over 400 AB's but had a breakout power year with 19 HR's, played the same great defense but had around the same batting average and OBP as he did with the Twins in 08. 2013 way more AB's , close to 600 ,same power, better batting average ,better OBP , same great glove. Once he started getting those AB's he developed his tools. Just would be a shame to see a guy with Sierra's tools never get a chance to be a full time player.

Edited August 4, 2014 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

What I saw early from Sierra scared me. He seems like a low IQ baserunner and a guy who depends on his plus arm more than making the right play. I've seen him fly his cut-off man more than once trying to make a play, instead of making the smart throw and keeping a trail runner from taking an extra base, and eliminating a DP chance. He also doesn't seem like a very smart baserunner.

 

Maybe those are things that can be fixed, but mixing that, with the fact that Toronto was already ready to let the obviously talented kid walk away, makes me wonder if Sierra is someone that Ventura and his team have been really successful at finding good match ups for, and if some of his numbers are looking better because of that.

Puig makes a lot of mistakes too. Eaton's made a few boneheaded base running errors too.That just comes with the territory often with young players. They believe in their abilities to make things happen. It just has to be harnessed. Getting playing time is a chance to grow in all facets of the game. I know the Sox need to see what they have in Viciedo too and Tank will never be a fast runner or plus defender because of that difference in speed. So Sierra is just as deserving if not more so than Tank because of his tools alone.

Edited August 4, 2014 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Chicago White Sox]

Even if you gave Sierra the rest of August & September to start and he did well, would anyone here really want to bank on a two month sample and enter 2015 with him as one of our starting OFs?

 

The way I see it, Eaton & Garcia are all but guaranteed two of the three OF spots. If we're serious about competing next year, we should be looking for an impact bat to fill that third spot, not a toolsy guy with unrealized upside. Sierra makes sense as a 4th OF and if someone were to go down with injury, that's his chance to prove himself in a greater role. I know I wouldn't want to be the GM that gave 600+ plate appearances to Sierra while trying to make the playoffs.

[lasttriptotulsa]

I don't see Sierra being a "core" piece. I do see him as guy that the Sox should hang onto. He seems to be a pretty talented ballplayer from what we've seen of him. He is still 3 seasons away from arbitration so his low cost makes him valuable to the Sox. It will be interesting to see what happens once Garcia comes back. I don't know for certain, but Sierra has to be out of options otherwise the Blue Jays wouldn't have let him go. Garcia needs to come back by August 20th I believe, so we'll see who gets sent down for those 11 days before the rosters expand.

[southsider2k5]

Puig makes a lot of mistakes too. Eaton's made a few boneheaded base running errors too.That just comes with the territory often with young players. They believe in their abilities to make things happen. It just has to be harnessed. Getting playing time is a chance to grow in all facets of the game. I know the Sox need to see what they have in Viciedo too and Tank will never be a fast runner or plus defender because of that difference in speed. So Sierra is just as deserving if not more so than Tank because of his tools alone.

 

Just throw out the Puig idea. He doesn't have anywhere close to that ceiling. Actually De Aza/Viciedo hybrid makes more sense. The power and speed of De Aza (15-20 homer top, 30 steal top), with the arm of Viciedo (but better, really a plus/plus arm). The baseball IQ of both of them, including defensive instincts.

[lasttriptotulsa]

Even if you gave Sierra the rest of August & September to start and he did well, would anyone here really want to bank on a two month sample and enter 2015 with him as one of our starting OFs?

 

The way I see it, Eaton & Garcia are all but guaranteed two of the three OF spots. If we're serious about competing next year, we should be looking for an impact bat to fill that third spot, not a toolsy guy with unrealized upside. Sierra makes sense as a 4th OF and if someone were to go down with injury, that's his chance to prove himself in a greater role. I know I wouldn't want to be the GM that gave 600+ plate appearances to Sierra while trying to make the playoffs.

 

I definitely agree with the bolded part. I don't see the Sox using Sierra as an everyday outfielder, but in using him as a 4th outfielder and possibly getting him ABs as the right handed part of a DH platoon (or more likely Tank as the DH and Sierra in the OF in those games), they could get him 250-300 PAs over the season. If he excels and forces himself into more playing time, well that's a good problem to have.

[lasttriptotulsa]

Just throw out the Puig idea. He doesn't have anywhere close to that ceiling. Actually De Aza/Viciedo hybrid makes more sense. The power and speed of De Aza (15-20 homer top, 30 steal top), with the arm of Viciedo (but better, really a plus/plus arm). The baseball IQ of both of them, including defensive instincts.

 

Agreed. Sierra can't get away with the dumb plays like Puig can because Puig is uber talented. If Sierra wants to make it as an everyday player at any point in his career, he needs to get the most out of his talent and not make the dumb mistakes.

[glangon]

Just throw out the Puig idea. He doesn't have anywhere close to that ceiling. Actually De Aza/Viciedo hybrid makes more sense. The power and speed of De Aza (15-20 homer top, 30 steal top), with the arm of Viciedo (but better, really a plus/plus arm). The baseball IQ of both of them, including defensive instincts.

 

More realistically we'd have the strikeout ability and speed of Viciedo with the arm and baserunning of De Aza coupled with the hype and expectancy of the hybrid by the fans which then only ends up doomed for failure.

 

It's like an outfield version of Dunn

[harfman77]

Right now he is worth hanging on to, he costs very little and has some upside. If there is something better that comes along then you take that into account, but much like bullpen bingo, he is like a lottery ticket that could pay off.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Just throw out the Puig idea. He doesn't have anywhere close to that ceiling. Actually De Aza/Viciedo hybrid makes more sense. The power and speed of De Aza (15-20 homer top, 30 steal top), with the arm of Viciedo (but better, really a plus/plus arm). The baseball IQ of both of them, including defensive instincts.

I don't see where you think I'm comparing Puig to Sierra regarding ceilings. You mentioned Sierra's outfield and base running IQ so I said Puig and Eaton make the same kind of mistakes . Puig especially in spades. That was the comparison not in their ceilings. Young players make mistake simple as that when they believe in their abilities and are aggressive in their throwing and base running.

 

Talking about the speed and power of De Aza is pointless . The guy is 30 , he has no upside any longer .Sierra's arm is just as good as Viciedo's and his speed and defensive upside is way beyond Tanks. Again all I'm saying is he needs more AB's , to play more baseball to develop his talents. I just want him to get a chance. Are the chances of him becoming a Carlos Gomez type player high. No. But it is a small possibility. Hell, the chances of Gomez becoming what he is now weren't that high either especially getting limited playing time like he was. The chance of De Aza or Tank becoming that good are non-existent.

Edited August 4, 2014 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[southsider2k5]

I don't see where you think I'm comparing Puig to Sierra regarding ceilings. You mentioned Sierra's outfield and base running IQ so I said Puig and Eaton make the same kind of mistakes . Puig especially in spades. That was the comparison not in their ceilings. Young players make mistake simple as that when they believe in their abilities and are aggressive in their throwing and base running.

 

Talking about the speed and power of De Aza is pointless . The guy is 30 , he has no upside any longer .Sierra's arm is just as good as Viciedo's and his speed and defensive upside is way beyond Tanks. Again all I'm saying is he needs more AB's , to play more baseball to develop his talents. I just want him to get a chance. Are the chances of him becoming a Carlos Gomez type player high. No. But it is a small possibility. The chance of De Aza or Tank becoming that good are non-existent.

 

It is my experience that low IQ players have less of a chance of succeeding, because even if they don't fully realize their tool set, their chances of contributing meaningfully to a team drop, because of the level of mistakes they make.

 

I see a lot of Alejandro De Aza in Moises Sierra. I think there is talent there, but a decent level of it will never be realized. I have no problem with him as a 4th OF, I don't want to see him as a starter.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

It is my experience that low IQ players have less of a chance of succeeding, because even if they don't fully realize their tool set, their chances of contributing meaningfully to a team drop, because of the level of mistakes they make.

 

I see a lot of Alejandro De Aza in Moises Sierra. I think there is talent there, but a decent level of it will never be realized. I have no problem with him as a 4th OF, I don't want to see him as a starter.

What you call a low IQ player is way too judgmental in young players. The more baseball you play the better you should get in understanding your abilities and the importance of making the right decisions based on situations. You see low IQ , I see youth and inexperience and extremely toolsy .On one hand you advocate a combination of De Aza and Tank and I know I've seen you bash De Aza's IQ in the past. If Sierra is making the same mistakes De Aza made at 29 yrs old I'll agree he is a low baseball IQ guy.

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

Remember when we made Dewayne Wise an everyday player?

[southsider2k5]

What you call a low IQ player is way too judgmental in young players. The more baseball you play the better you should get in understanding your abilities and the importance of making the right decisions based on situations. You see low IQ , I see youth and inexperience and extremely toolsy .On one hand you advocate a combination of De Aza and Tank and I know I've seen you bash De Aza's IQ in the past. If Sierra is making the same mistakes De Aza made at 29 yrs old I'll agree he is a low baseball IQ guy.

 

To summarize more clearly: I see Sierra's ceiling as a high of a hybrid of De Aza/Viciedo, based on the outline I made earlier. I also don't see Sierra ever really getting there based on his other shortfalls.

[Dick Allen]

I think if Sierra got himself some Flinstones vitamins, he probably could be a star. If he stays clean, he is probably a guy if he played every day for a while you would probably have seen enough reasonably soon.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

To summarize more clearly: I see Sierra's ceiling as a high of a hybrid of De Aza/Viciedo, based on the outline I made earlier. I also don't see Sierra ever really getting there based on his other shortfalls.

Ok so you're agreeing that the ceiling of one Sierra > the combination of De Aza and Tank using all their skills combined unless I'm misunderstanding because I'm not sure your clarification was all that clear.Not sure if you meant a "higher hybrid" since we're talking ceilings or "kind of a hybrid" . Either way, if that's the case ,then I made my point for him being deserving of more playing time than either De Aza or Tank.

Edited August 4, 2014 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I think if Sierra got himself some Flinstones vitamins, he probably could be a star. If he stays clean, he is probably a guy if he played every day for a while you would probably have seen enough reasonably soon.

So you're saying he'd be Beckham like if he got as much PT as Beckham. I hope he gets the same chances. Actually just a chance. Beckhams had enough rope to hang himself at least 3 times. Viciedo is approaching that level also .

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I definitely agree with the bolded part. I don't see the Sox using Sierra as an everyday outfielder, but in using him as a 4th outfielder and possibly getting him ABs as the right handed part of a DH platoon (or more likely Tank as the DH and Sierra in the OF in those games), they could get him 250-300 PAs over the season. If he excels and forces himself into more playing time, well that's a good problem to have.

So what about all those AB's Beckham and Tank and De Aza got the last few years ? The Sox weren't trying to make the playoffs ? Gillaspie and Keppinger last year ? I could probably name a lot more players too if I had to look up lousy players getting 400 AB's on terrible, mediocre or playoff teams since no matter how often teams try to make the playoffs they often fail. I want to see him get at least 400 AB's for once in his life. One lousy chance since he is 25 and running out of those chances.

 

But what you say makes sense , there's just no guarantee he ever gets the chance to prove himself with the Sox. I'd probably be good with him as the 4th outfielder but right now he's like 5th and that won't get better with Avi coming back.