Pick one: Jose Abreu or Chris Sale

[witesoxfan]

To me, it's a simple question. Who is harder to replace? Isn't WAR all about replacement value after all? In my opinion, it's always harder to find the star offensive player, the guy that makes everyone else in the lineup better (ala Miggy, prime Pujols, Bonds, Big Hurt), than a guy like Donaldson who is very good at everything but not great at any one thing.

 

It's incredibly difficult to replace either one of them. How many players out there are gold glove caliber players at 3B who also draw walks and hit for a lot of power? How many players have the arm and range of a guy like Jason Heyward?

 

Let's put this a different way - if you could only pick one of Chris Sale or Jose Abreu, which would you pick? It's the same exact thing.

 

Again, I think you are severely underrating the importance and the value of their defense.

[southsider2k5]

It's incredibly difficult to replace either one of them. How many players out there are gold glove caliber players at 3B who also draw walks and hit for a lot of power? How many players have the arm and range of a guy like Jason Heyward?

 

Let's put this a different way - if you could only pick one of Chris Sale or Jose Abreu, which would you pick? It's the same exact thing.

 

Again, I think you are severely underrating the importance and the value of their defense.

 

Now that is a topic.

[Jose Abreu]

Now that is a topic.

It really all depends on a specific team's needs- great starting pitching or a terrific all-around hitter?

Edited August 4, 2014 by Jose Abreu

[BigHurt3515]

Now that is a topic.

 

Probably Abreu. It is easy to find an ace then it is a hitter like Abreu IMO. It is tough to find either of them but I think finding an ace pitcher to replace Sale would be easy to find then finding a 1B that hits like Abreu.

 

Luckily we don't have to choose though

[southsider2k5]

It really all depends on a specific team's needs- great starting pitching or a terrific all-around hitter?

 

That is the scaredy way out. Throw all of the stuff that makes a decision for you out of the window.

 

If you had to pick one... Chris Sale or Jose Abreu.

[BigHurt3515]

Probably Abreu. It is easier to find an ace then it is a hitter like Abreu IMO. It is tough to find either of them but I think finding an ace pitcher to replace Sale would be easier to find then finding a 1B that hits like Abreu.

 

Luckily we don't have to choose though

Edited August 4, 2014 by BigHurt3515

[Rowand44]

I choose both. I WIN.

[Jose Abreu]

That is the scaredy way out. Throw all of the stuff that makes a decision for you out of the window.

 

If you had to pick one... Chris Sale or Jose Abreu.

It's tough because Sale is younger, but Abreu

[witesoxfan]

It really all depends on a specific team's needs.

 

And you've found the crux of the entire situation.

 

This is why you can't just say "Would you rather have Donaldson or Abreu?" Both players have the same value, and they have star power and both have missed a bit of time (meaning both could easily be 4.5-5 WAR players at this point) but WAR is not meant to transplant players, it's meant to provide some sort of baseline value for these players. Given what the Sox offense looks like, and the fact that they have a viable option at 3B in Gillaspie, I'd obviously much rather have Abreu, but ask Oakland, with Moss hanging around 1B for them, who they'd rather have and they'd certainly tell you Donaldson. Ask the Cubs who they'd rather have. Conversely, ask the Nationals or Twins or Rangers who they'd rather have, and they'd assuredly tell you Abreu.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

And you've found the crux of the entire situation.

 

This is why you can't just say "Would you rather have Donaldson or Abreu?" Both players have the same value, and they have star power and both have missed a bit of time (meaning both could easily be 4.5-5 WAR players at this point) but WAR is not meant to transplant players, it's meant to provide some sort of baseline value for these players. Given what the Sox offense looks like, and the fact that they have a viable option at 3B in Gillaspie, I'd obviously much rather have Abreu, but ask Oakland, with Moss hanging around 1B for them, who they'd rather have and they'd certainly tell you Donaldson. Ask the Cubs who they'd rather have. Conversely, ask the Nationals or Twins or Rangers who they'd rather have, and they'd assuredly tell you Abreu.

Chicks dig the long ball. I dig chicks. Therefore I dig Abreu. Nutshell.

[Chisoxfn]

If you are factoring in contracts, you go with Sale. If you factor in best player, its Sale. However, if you are concerned about his long term ability to stay healthy, you might lean Abreu. Ace pitchers help you win a series though.

[2nd_city_saint787]

I know we're not really talking about money here, but I'd take Sale because of that contract. That deal of his is absolutely ridiculous. Under control for 5 more years with 13.5 being the most he'll ever be paid in a year. That's nuts in todays day and age. JDA, more than likely gets pretty expensive in 2 years.

[Quin]

If you are factoring in contracts, you go with Sale. If you factor in best player, its Sale. However, if you are concerned about his long term ability to stay healthy, you might lean Abreu. Ace pitchers help you win a series though.

 

^^^

[witesoxfan]

Well ss2k hijacked this from the Jose Abreu discussion, so even though I "started" the thread, I really didn't start it.

 

Therefore, I'm taking Lyle Mouton.

[Jake]

Sale, easily.

 

25 years old versus 27 years old.

 

Starting pitcher vs first baseman - another easy choice. Getting a good first baseman is fairly easy. Getting a good starting pitcher is always difficult.

 

The nature of projecting a pitcher versus a young hitter. There was rarely ever a doubt that Sale would be good because his stuff is so evidently great. He can throw 100 with a funky motion and has deceptive, nasty off-speed pitches. Everything thrown for strikes. Abreu has all the tools to be a great hitter but lots of guys do. Lots of guys hit like a great hitter for a long stretch of time and then fall off the wagon.

 

Track record. Sale has been consistently a top 5 pitcher in his position in the major leagues for three seasons now. We have 90-some games for Abreu, total. Not even a minor league track record to fall back on. Abreu is as easy to project as Adrian Nieto is. While picking Sale over Abreu risks the possibility that Abreu is the next Frank Thomas, the risk of Abreu's talent upside is minimal because you're choosing one of, if not the best pitcher in baseball over him.

 

Injury risk. Sale clearly loses here, but at this point he's done enough to make me feel comfortable that it at least is not a foregone conclusion that he has a big problem. The fact that his little bouts of soreness have been in the elbow are also encouraging because I'd be much more worried about major shoulder surgery. Don't forget that Abreu has teased us with foot troubles himself, the sort of injury that plagued guys like Big Hurt. Sale's age plays in here, too, because he could go down with TJS tomorrow and still be up and running at 26 or 27 years old. A lost season for Abreu cuts out some extremely valuable prime years, while Sale arguably hasn't even reached that stage of his career yet.

 

Luckily, my team has both of them for a long time and on decent contracts.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Jake

[Y2Jimmy0]

Abreu because he's a position player and therefore plays every day.

[BigHurt3515]

Sale, easily.

 

25 years old versus 27 years old.

Starting pitcher vs first baseman - another easy choice. Getting a good first baseman is fairly easy. Getting a good starting pitcher is always difficult.

 

The nature of projecting a pitcher versus a young hitter. There was rarely ever a doubt that Sale would be good because his stuff is so evidently great. He can throw 100 with a funky motion and has deceptive, nasty off-speed pitches. Everything thrown for strikes. Abreu has all the tools to be a great hitter but lots of guys do. Lots of guys hit like a great hitter for a long stretch of time and then fall off the wagon.

 

Track record. Sale has been consistently a top 5 pitcher in his position in the major leagues for three seasons now. We have 90-some games for Abreu, total. Not even a minor league track record to fall back on. Abreu is as easy to project as Adrian Nieto is. While picking Sale over Abreu risks the possibility that Abreu is the next Frank Thomas, the risk of Abreu's talent upside is minimal because you're choosing one of, if not the best pitcher in baseball over him.

 

Injury risk. Sale clearly loses here, but at this point he's done enough to make me feel comfortable that it at least is not a foregone conclusion that he has a big problem. The fact that his little bouts of soreness have been in the elbow are also encouraging because I'd be much more worried about major shoulder surgery. Don't forget that Abreu has teased us with foot troubles himself, the sort of injury that plagued guys like Big Hurt. Sale's age plays in here, too, because he could go down with TJS tomorrow and still be up and running at 26 or 27 years old. A lost season for Abreu cuts out some extremely valuable prime years, while Sale arguably hasn't even reached that stage of his career yet.

 

Luckily, my team has both of them for a long time and on decent contracts.

 

Question with bold;

 

How many good starting pitchers are out there and how many good 1B are there?? I am pretty sure there are way more good SP then 1B

 

Obviously there aren't many on the level of Sale or Abreu

[Melissa1334]

If they were both free agents after the year and we could only keep one, I'll take Abreu. You could sign Lester as a FA and be ok but who replaces abreus production? He miggy-esque right now. Just saying if that were the case(not involving the contracts)

[Jake]

Question with bold;

 

How many good starting pitchers are out there and how many good 1B are there?? I am pretty sure there are way more good SP then 1B

 

Obviously there aren't many on the level of Sale or Abreu

 

I would imagine there are more "good" starters, but the problem is the need for five of them.

[ShandyMan]

Sale.

 

Pitchers like him are extremely hard to find, and usually demand massive contracts.

 

Thank the lord that is no decision we have to make however, we are extremely lucky to have both.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

If they were both free agents after the year and we could only keep one, I'll take Abreu. You could sign Lester as a FA and be ok but who replaces abreus production? He miggy-esque right now. Just saying if that were the case(not involving the contracts)

See I told everyone chicks dig the long ball though admittedly you're the only one who posts on here so you're a small sample size

[Dick Allen]

If you needed to build an entire team and you could trade them, I would take Sale. I think he gets you a bigger trade package. If it was for keeps, I would take Abreu for injury possibilities and because he affects each game, Sale only 1 in 5.

 

I thin you are still pretty happy if you get the 2nd pick.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I pick Sale because he is younger, cheaper, and has been great for years now. I love Abreu, but Sale done this year after year.

[BlackSox13]

Assuming both players stay healthy, a starting pitcher can only help their team win for roughly 33 games per year but a hitter can help 150+ plus games per year. The hitter has more opportunities to help the team so its a matter of odds so I chose Abreu.

[thxfrthmmrs]

I would imagine there are more "good" starters, but the problem is the need for five of them.

 

By this logic, starting pitchers just became the most valuable position in baseball and relievers became a lot more valuable as well.

 

I think it's more fair to look at it from a value perspective. At the end of the day is it harder to replace a true ace or true middle of the line up hitter?

 

I think the Sale over Abreu give the park factor they are performing in.