It's about that time of the year again...

[Boopa1219]

The odds of a current major leage contributing are so much incredibly higher than any draft pick, it isn't even funny. We benefit WAY more by the guys that are here learning the lessons they need, than we do picking five picks higher.

 

I want the highest draft pick possible, this year was never about wins or losses but the development of its young players and looking at the seasom I would call it a success. To me they're still rebuilding and wont be competitive till 2016 at the earliest and while there have been great strides made in the scouting and player development department since Hahn took over from Kenny, (With the hiring of Marco Paddy, the past three draft classes (Hawkins, Anderson, amd Rodon)) the farm system is not as deep as we think it is and in my opinion and it still could desperately use another top 5 pick/INTL bonus pool to really cement the overall long term health of the franchise.

 

Im not saying your guaranteed to draft a great player when you have a high pick (Gordon Beckham, Josh Fields, Joe Borchard, Bryan Anderson), but when you have a higher pick you have more money to spend in the draft and the INTL market, so your chances of getting a great player in your farm system is greater.

[Quin]

I admire your optimism but Semien wasn't even ranked in the White Sox top 20 prospects that MLB.com put out last month. Tim Anderson is the guy to keep an eye on.

 

That would be because Semien has lost his rookie prospect eligibility.

[LDF]

Yeah, I wouldn't count on that. Baez's ceiling is way higher than Semien's. The only way Semien

has a better/longer major league career is due to each of their plate disciplines. Semien has a ton,

and Baez has virtually none. I would say Semien has the higher floor, Baez has the higher ceiling.

 

a great answer, I now have an answer to my unasked question that's been bothering me for yrs.

 

after rereading this, this may come across like a jerk, but I am serious about the question and your

statement ties up a great discussion.

Edited August 26, 2014 by LDF

[LDF]

I want the highest draft pick possible, this year was never about wins or losses but the development of its young players and looking at the seasom I would call it a success. To me they're still rebuilding and wont be competitive till 2016 at the earliest and while there have been great strides made in the scouting and player development department since Hahn took over from Kenny, (With the hiring of Marco Paddy, the past three draft classes (Hawkins, Anderson, amd Rodon)) the farm system is not as deep as we think it is and in my opinion and it still could desperately use another top 5 pick/INTL bonus pool to really cement the overall long term health of the franchise.

 

Im not saying your guaranteed to draft a great player when you have a high pick (Gordon Beckham, Josh Fields, Joe Borchard, Bryan Anderson), but when you have a higher pick you have more money to spend in the draft and the INTL market, so your chances of getting a great player in your farm system is greater.

 

having the higher draft pick does help in the selection of the elite prospects. look at this past draft, what would

have happen if the sox would have picked 10, no Rodon. Look at the sCrubs farm system they are loaded. as of

today with what we see for next yr draft, there is a difference between Michael Matuella and any predicted pitcher

outside the top 10. it is huge.

 

so yes I want to have the sox do good, but my selfish side wants them to bomb, for the higher draft pick.

 

second re: Beckham, I really like him but he was good enuf to make it to the majors, but as of today, he stalled.

I went back to look at his draft class, how many other prospect was there after is selection that did great? I know

I am talking about hindsight.

[LDF]

Does either one have a 16000sq ft house in AZ ?

 

?????? some help pls

[glangon]

second re: Beckham, I really like him but he was good enuf to make it to the majors, but as of today, he stalled.

I went back to look at his draft class, how many other prospect was there after is selection that did great? I know

I am talking about hindsight.

 

If you are talking hindsight, then lets look at the number 10 pick - Jason Castro, our catching issues would be resolved if we drafted him.

 

Or how about the number 19 pick Andrew Cashner who has pitched really well recently with the Padres.

 

The supplemental picks that year included Lance Lynn who is pitching really well for the Cardinals and a certain left handed third baseman called Conor Gillaspie.

 

If you could predict these crap shoots then you'd be in a job for years to come. For reference Craig Kimbrel went in the 3rd Round, Dee Gordon in the 4th Round Anthony Rendon went in the 27th Round and Yan Gomes went in the 39th Round all of them did better than Kyle Skipworth who was drafted 6th by the Marlins.

[LittleHurt05]

If you are talking hindsight, then lets look at the number 10 pick - Jason Castro, our catching issues would be resolved if we drafted him.

 

Or how about the number 19 pick Andrew Cashner who has pitched really well recently with the Padres.

 

The supplemental picks that year included Lance Lynn who is pitching really well for the Cardinals and a certain left handed third baseman called Conor Gillaspie.

 

If you could predict these crap shoots then you'd be in a job for years to come. For reference Craig Kimbrel went in the 3rd Round, Dee Gordon in the 4th Round Anthony Rendon went in the 27th Round and Yan Gomes went in the 39th Round all of them did better than Kyle Skipworth who was drafted 6th by the Marlins.

 

Castro had a huge 2013, but in 2012 & 2014 combined, Tyler Flowers has put up the exact same WAR that Castro has in 30 less games.

[witesoxfan]

I want to ask you. Throw out all these metrics. You watched him play for these many ways. Do you personally feel ... do your eyes tell you Gordon Beckham was IN ANY WAY a valuable member of the White Sox? Like I said if he is a good No. 8 pick throughout history, then baseball GMs are worst than I thought. But please answer my personal question, this time using no metrics at all.

Your opinion of Gordon Beckham from what you saw .... and others that cite stats that say he's good please comment as well.

 

What in the hell are you talking about? People have explained this to you already, what their eyes saw and what the numbers say. Why are you dwelling on this?

[Eminor3rd]

With all due respect, Beckham is a great argument against advanced stats. You can't tell me he was valuable to the White Sox in any way during his tenure. You can't tell me we couldn't have had a different second baseman every one of those years with the same impact on the team. Some minimum salary free agent each year. I mean, cmon. If Beckham is considered valuable in any way, that advanced stat is just WRONG. Seriously.

There has to be some value to the eye test and the common stat. Beckham was a lousy No. 8 draft pick. If he's better than most, than teams have drafted poorly at No. 8 that is FOR SURE. Enough is enough. How can anybody say Beckham was valuable in any way?

He was a decent to good fielder who couldn't hit a lick. Why do we need WAR to tell us some fib??

 

Greg, wtf are you talking about? Please read the following carefully:

 

Gordon Beckham is a below average major league player by any statistic, both advanced and traditional. The only reason people are saying he is better than most #8 picks is because most #8 picks don't ever even make it to the Majors. The whole point being made is that even holding down a job as a mediocre player is something of an accomplishment.

 

This has NOTHING to do with advanced metrics. I've never come across anyone who can hold a personal grudge against something as consistently as you. I mean seriously, if your car won't start, do you blame WAR? Do you blame Adam Dunn?

Edited August 26, 2014 by Eminor3rd

[glangon]

Castro had a huge 2013, but in 2012 & 2014 combined, Tyler Flowers has put up the exact same WAR that Castro has in 30 less games.

 

Which is still better than Beckham who we are comparing him to.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

Greg, wtf are you talking about? Please read the following carefully:

 

Gordon Beckham is a below average major league player by any statistic, both advanced and traditional. The only reason people are saying he is better than most #8 picks is because most #8 picks don't ever even make it to the Majors. The whole point being made is that even holding down a job as a mediocre player is something of an accomplishment.

 

This has NOTHING to do with advanced metrics. I've never come across anyone who can hold a personal grudge against something as consistently as you. I mean seriously, if your car won't start, do you blame WAR? Do you blame Adam Dunn?

 

There's a hair in my buger! GODDAMMIT ADAM DUNN

[LittleHurt05]

Which is still better than Beckham who we are comparing him to.

 

That is true. I was just questioning how resolved our catcher issue would be given that Castro has really only been better than Flowers once in the past 3 seasons.

[LDF]

If you are talking hindsight, then lets look at the number 10 pick - Jason Castro, our catching issues would be resolved if we drafted him.

 

Or how about the number 19 pick Andrew Cashner who has pitched really well recently with the Padres.

 

The supplemental picks that year included Lance Lynn who is pitching really well for the Cardinals and a certain left handed third baseman called Conor Gillaspie.

 

If you could predict these crap shoots then you'd be in a job for years to come. For reference Craig Kimbrel went in the 3rd Round, Dee Gordon in the 4th Round Anthony Rendon went in the 27th Round and Yan Gomes went in the 39th Round all of them did better than Kyle Skipworth who was drafted 6th by the Marlins.

 

yeah you are right, I should have clarify, I was meaning 1 rounders.

 

now with Cashner, I was debating about him. picking Beckman was the higher rated. re: Costro

I totally forgot about him. you are right there.

[southsider2k5]

Hey greg, thanks for killing any intelligent discussion in this thread.

 

Signed

Soxtalk.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Hey greg, thanks for killing any intelligent discussion in this thread.

 

Signed

Soxtalk.

 

Yeeesh. Aren't you an admin?

[greg775]

Greg, wtf are you talking about? Please read the following carefully:

 

Gordon Beckham is a below average major league player by any statistic, both advanced and traditional. The only reason people are saying he is better than most #8 picks is because most #8 picks don't ever even make it to the Majors. The whole point being made is that even holding down a job as a mediocre player is something of an accomplishment.

 

This has NOTHING to do with advanced metrics. I've never come across anyone who can hold a personal grudge against something as consistently as you. I mean seriously, if your car won't start, do you blame WAR? Do you blame Adam Dunn?

 

Thanks. I am glad all metrics indicate he is a below average player.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

From yesterday, the Sox gained 0.5 games on....

 

Texas, Rockies, Red Sox, Phillies.

 

Only team that the Sox lost 0.5 games on yesterday was...

 

Houston.

 

Sox are now 8 GB of the #1 pick, and 4.5 GB of the #5 pick. They sit at #10.

[caulfield12]

From yesterday, the Sox gained 0.5 games on....

 

Texas, Rockies, Red Sox, Phillies.

 

Only team that the Sox lost 0.5 games on yesterday was...

 

Houston.

 

Sox are now 8 GB of the #1 pick, and 4.5 GB of the #5 pick. They sit at #10.

 

 

Should be #9 (for this year's teams, #10 if you include both Astros' picks)...as long as they finish at 9 or 10, they're okay

 

And the Cubs, Phillies, Twins are all getting within range. Mets and SD are still ahead (behind) since we started to fall apart.

 

 

Btw, the White Sox are now tied for fifth worse runs scored/allowed differential in the majors. We could easily be 2nd worst within another week of atrocious play.

 

 

1. Texas -137

2. Arizona -97

3. Houston -93

Boston -93

5. White Sox -72

Colorado -72

7. Cubs -46

Edited August 26, 2014 by caulfield12

[kitekrazy]

Yeeesh. Aren't you an admin?

 

Don't confuse this site with WSI. I think they've given up over there.

[fathom]

If the draft was held tonight, the Sox would be picking 8th (7th worst record, but Astros picking twice). The Twins choked that game away, or else the Sox would have been up to the 7th pick.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

If the draft was held tonight, the Sox would be picking 8th (7th worst record, but Astros picking twice). The Twins choked that game away, or else the Sox would have been up to the 7th pick.

 

I'm waiting until the games finish to update the thread, but we can do no better than the 8th pick tonight. Rangers, Rockies, Dbacks are all losing right now.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Yesterday's win cost us a spot in the draft. We have now slid down to 9th.

 

8 GB of the #1 pick, and 5 GB of the #5 pick.

[LDF]

Yesterday's win cost us a spot in the draft. We have now slid down to 9th.

 

8 GB of the #1 pick, and 5 GB of the #5 pick.

 

oh man, I agree with the way it is confusing feelings. part of me say yeah the sox won

but the other part is crying b/c we lost ground for a higher draft pick.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Sox gained a game on....

 

Minnesota and Houston.

 

Sox still sit with the #9 pick. 8 GB of the #1 pick, and 4 GB of the #5 pick.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Sox gained a game on....

 

Minnesota and Houston.

 

Sox still sit with the #9 pick. 8 GB of the #1 pick, and 4 GB of the #5 pick.

 

 

The 5th overall pick in the draft would be nice. Sox would be guaranteed 1 of Bickford, Aiken, Matuella, Cameron, or Kirby. There are some other good HS players too.