It's about that time of the year again...

[Eminor3rd]

Also as far as the people who care about draft picks, I told some huge baseball fans about people on this message board wanting the Sox to lose to improve draft stock and ALL OF THEM said, "In baseball? They care about the draft?" They laughed heartily.

 

Then go back and hang out with your meatball friends. Baseball is more to us than an excuse to drink beer. We actually want to follow the team's quest to contention.

[Y2Jimmy0]

My impression of the "lower end starter, few bullpen arms, and maybe a hitter" format is that it seems to make sense but it's also the opposite of what Ricky said a few weeks ago. That seems like it barely makes a dent in the ground the white sox need to gain on the rest of the league and does so at a fairly high price.

 

Maybe something changes that on the trade market, but that seems to me like the definition of "Spending money to spend money", which Rick said they were not going to do.

 

Given the choice between that and seeing what guys like Wilkins and other scrap heap finds can do, I would lean strongly towards playing the scrap heap game. It seems likely to produce similar results at a lower cost.

 

 

I'm thinking they will sign a RHP like McCarthy or Masterson types. They will look to add a couple of relievers. They will try to add a youngish LH power bat for the middle of the lineup and try to find another starting OF. Those are the needs.

[Balta1701]

I'm thinking they will sign a RHP like McCarthy or Masterson types. They will look to add a couple of relievers. They will try to add a youngish LH power bat for the middle of the lineup and try to find another starting OF. Those are the needs.

And I'm open to suggestions of who fits this profile on the Free Agent market. I've got Pablo Sandoval and that's it.

 

Hence why developing Wilkins into something that is tolerable would be a big score. He won't be Sandoval but he's also not going to be a 9 figure cost with a high chance of breaking down late in his contract due to body size.

 

In 2016, if he's not extended beforehand, you could get my interest in Heyward to fill 2 of those roles, but that's a year away, no guarantee he hits the market, and he's also going to be a $100 million+ player. And of course, if we commit to a couple multi-year deals in 2015, there's no big money coming off the books next year.

 

If something happens in the trade market to shake this up, spectacular. Masterson makes a lot of sense to me as a Rodon placeholder, so I get that and he shouldn't be that expensive. Relievers are a definite need, but to put together a contending team we're going to need to upgrade the expensive part of the pen, which is the very back. We could try to scrape things together again and get lucky next year with cheap fill-ins, but then what's the point of spending $100 million on a Sandoval if Petricka + fillins is all we have at the back end and we are relying on "Masterson returning to form" in the rotation?

 

Anyway, that's my point. It's extremely messy. To make this team competitive, Ricky needs to pull off something in the trade market to fill some of these holes. If he can't do that, then Wilkins fits one of this team's needs and has a nonzero chance of filling it for several years. If there's a better option, tell me who it is and I'll be game, but I don't like the ones I see right now.

[witesoxfan]

And I'm open to suggestions of who fits this profile on the Free Agent market. I've got Pablo Sandoval and that's it.

 

Hence why developing Wilkins into something that is tolerable would be a big score. He won't be Sandoval but he's also not going to be a 9 figure cost with a high chance of breaking down late in his contract due to body size.

 

In 2016, if he's not extended beforehand, you could get my interest in Heyward to fill 2 of those roles, but that's a year away, no guarantee he hits the market, and he's also going to be a $100 million+ player. And of course, if we commit to a couple multi-year deals in 2015, there's no big money coming off the books next year.

 

If something happens in the trade market to shake this up, spectacular. Masterson makes a lot of sense to me as a Rodon placeholder, so I get that and he shouldn't be that expensive. Relievers are a definite need, but to put together a contending team we're going to need to upgrade the expensive part of the pen, which is the very back. We could try to scrape things together again and get lucky next year with cheap fill-ins, but then what's the point of spending $100 million on a Sandoval if Petricka + fillins is all we have at the back end and we are relying on "Masterson returning to form" in the rotation?

 

Anyway, that's my point. It's extremely messy. To make this team competitive, Ricky needs to pull off something in the trade market to fill some of these holes. If he can't do that, then Wilkins fits one of this team's needs and has a nonzero chance of filling it for several years. If there's a better option, tell me who it is and I'll be game, but I don't like the ones I see right now.

 

I don't know why you're limiting this to the free agent market. I'm not sure the LH bat will come from the free agent market.

[Balta1701]

I don't know why you're limiting this to the free agent market. I'm not sure the LH bat will come from the free agent market.

I don't think I did.

 

If something happens in the trade market to shake this up, spectacular....

 

 

 

Anyway, that's my point. It's extremely messy. To make this team competitive, Ricky needs to pull off something in the trade market to fill some of these holes. If he can't do that, then Wilkins fits one of this team's needs and has a nonzero chance of filling it for several years. If there's a better option, tell me who it is and I'll be game, but I don't like the ones I see right now.

If I'm looking at LH bats available on the trade market that I think we can say with confidence are there, we hit guys like Hamilton and Ethier, who we're not even sure are available and need to have a ton of money come with them to have it even be a worthy risk. We may well do that to fill one of these holes, but that's going to either cost talent or money or both and at best one of those guys would be a band-aid based on the trajectories of their careers. You can't tell me that "Oh the White Sox added Hamilton, Masterson, a couple relievers, and the DH will rotate between Semien, Sanchez, Hamilton, and Sierra" is a lineup you believe will compete for this division next year.

 

Beyond that, if you can suggest a player who is available for a decent but not Rodonobscene price I'm listening, but trading away multiple young guys to fill a big league need is the opposite of what Rick has been doing so far.

[southsider2k5]

I don't know why you're limiting this to the free agent market. I'm not sure the LH bat will come from the free agent market.

 

I would be shocked if it did, based on the hints that Rick Hahn has dropped.

[Balta1701]

I would be shocked if it did, based on the hints that Rick Hahn has dropped.

Do you think Rick will switch things up this year and try to trade a package including several young players to try to fill a big league role?

[Eminor3rd]

Do you think Rick will switch things up this year and try to trade a package including several young players to try to fill a big league role?

 

EYE think that he'll be open to anything. I don't think he "strategy" will be based on where or how he acquires his talent, just that he know what type of talent he needs.

[lasttriptotulsa]

For sure on all that. Part of it too is that he became sooo good before he tanked out. The Professor was such an aptly chosen nickname because he was putting on an absolute clinic on how to hit what the pitcher gives a hitter...and then launching mistakes. That small window of greatness was an exciting time. Was he better than Thomas during that window? I dunno.

 

If by better than Thomas during that window you mean was he better in 2010 than a 42 year old Frank Thomas who had been retired for two years, than yes he was. If you mean was he better than a peak Thomas, then that statement becomes absolutely laughable.

 

Konerko's wRC+ in 2010: 158 (the best of his career by far), Thomas had 9 seasons that beat that including a ridiculous career high of 205 in 1994. His career wRC+ is 154. Konerko at his best was essentially equal to Thomas when he was frequently injured and at the tail end of his career. Thomas at his best landed him in Cooperstown.

 

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

Do you think Rick will switch things up this year and try to trade a package including several young players to try to fill a big league role?

 

 

I could absolutely see him doing something like this. Lets look at Pedro Alvarez for example. Some people would not want Pedro Alvarez and I understand the flaws but acquiring him could be a realistic possibility. What would the price be? Sanchez/Semien, 1 of the Sox young pitchers, and a lower level type? More than that? It just depends. The Sox have a glut of infield prospects and I'd actually be surprised if the Sox entered the season with all of them. I would imagine that 1 of Semien/Johnson/Sanchez gets traded this offseason.

[Balta1701]

I could absolutely see him doing something like this. Lets look at Pedro Alvarez for example. Some people would not want Pedro Alvarez and I understand the flaws but acquiring him could be a realistic possibility. What would the price be? Sanchez/Semien, 1 of the Sox young pitchers, and a lower level type? More than that? It just depends. The Sox have a glut of infield prospects and I'd actually be surprised if the Sox entered the season with all of them. I would imagine that 1 of Semien/Johnson/Sanchez gets traded this offseason.

Way way less than that. Go look at his arb status and production this year. 2nd year arb eligible, probably pushing $6 million to keep next year, only 2 more years of team control, rotten and injury plagued season, seemingly can't play 3b any more. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if he was non-tendered after 2015. He'd be a decent guy to flip for Viciedo actually, if the Pirates thought Viciedo could fit at 1b for them.

 

Pedro Alvarez is the kind of guy I could see the Sox going after...because I expect them to keep scraping the bottom of the barrel. Pedro Alvarez is scraping the bottom of the barrel right now.

[Boopa1219]

Do you think Rick will switch things up this year and try to trade a package including several young players to try to fill a big league role?

 

Absolutely not, because if he decided to do so then all the work that the team has done on rebuilding the team from within, especially the renewed focus on scouting and player development would be for nothing. The Sox have greatly improved their system, and added some impact players to the farm (They have a great young group of pitchers), it would a shame to see several of these guys gone for some ML on a bloated contract.

[Dick Allen]

Way way less than that. Go look at his arb status and production this year. 2nd year arb eligible, probably pushing $6 million to keep next year, only 2 more years of team control, rotten and injury plagued season, seemingly can't play 3b any more. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if he was non-tendered after 2015. He'd be a decent guy to flip for Viciedo actually, if the Pirates thought Viciedo could fit at 1b for them.

 

Pedro Alvarez is the kind of guy I could see the Sox going after...because I expect them to keep scraping the bottom of the barrel. Pedro Alvarez is scraping the bottom of the barrel right now.

This could be true. For some reason, there was a Pirates scout at the White Sox game Sept. 9.

 

 

What I don't understand is if people don't like Dayan Viciedo or Adam Dunn, why would they like Pedro Alvarez?

Edited September 19, 2014 by Dick Allen

[Y2Jimmy0]

This could be true. For some reason, there was a Pirates scout at the White Sox game Sept. 9.

 

 

What I don't understand is if people don't like Dayan Viciedo or Adam Dunn, why would they like Pedro Alvarez?

 

 

I do like Adam Dunn. I like Pedro Alvarez as well. The problem here is that Alvarez has been nowhere near the player that Dunn was. Dunn was an obp machine for like 8 straight years. Alvarez hits for power, doesn't walk, and strikes out a lot.

[caulfield12]

Way way less than that. Go look at his arb status and production this year. 2nd year arb eligible, probably pushing $6 million to keep next year, only 2 more years of team control, rotten and injury plagued season, seemingly can't play 3b any more. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if he was non-tendered after 2015. He'd be a decent guy to flip for Viciedo actually, if the Pirates thought Viciedo could fit at 1b for them.

 

Pedro Alvarez is the kind of guy I could see the Sox going after...because I expect them to keep scraping the bottom of the barrel. Pedro Alvarez is scraping the bottom of the barrel right now.

That would be ibanez and Carlos Pena

Lind markakis Rasmus Dominic brown Alvarez....Delmon young just for hawks sake...Nolan reimold etc.

 

 

[Balta1701]

This could be true. For some reason, there was a Pirates scout at the White Sox game Sept. 9.

 

 

What I don't understand is if people don't like Dayan Viciedo or Adam Dunn, why would they like Pedro Alvarez?

Well, from the White Sox/Pirates perspective, their handedness helps (The Pirates are holding Ike Davis, a lefty who can play 1b and could use a platoon partner), the White Sox could use a more LH hitting bat. The Pirates also might be more willing to tolerate Viciedo as a backup OF as well than the White Sox would be since they have 3 strong, talented, young OFs, at least 1 of whom is also a lefty that was sent to the minors once already this year to work on his swing and could sit against tough lefties.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

Also as far as the people who care about draft picks, I told some huge baseball fans about people on this message board wanting the Sox to lose to improve draft stock and ALL OF THEM said, "In baseball? They care about the draft?" They laughed heartily.

 

Next time you see them, ask them what they love the most about Fangraphs, or what they think of catcher framing. Watch the dumb look on their faces when they realize they have no idea what you're talking about.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

So, update from last night.

 

Sox have the 9th pick, at 9 GB of the #1 pick, are 4 GB of the #5 pick, and are 2 games ahead of the Padres for a protected pick.

[LDF]

Also as far as the people who care about draft picks, I told some huge baseball fans about people on this message board wanting the Sox to lose to improve draft stock and ALL OF THEM said, "In baseball? They care about the draft?" They laughed heartily.

greg, this season, no matter how many time people will say this is a rebuilding yr. for the yr to

go and lose is very dangerous. think about the Black Sox and the scandal. they, as a team will

go out and try to win. We, as fans, wish differently. again let look to see who normally post about

the loosing, not many posters. I am sure they want the best, maybe to wind and build for next yr

or for what ever reason.

 

only, again a handful, are looking at trying to max this season. to get a better draft. believe you me

when I say I am just a big a fan of the sox since 1968. (Damn I am old) but I want the rebuild to

go fast. I have mention this before, the sox fan will not wait forever. we, will b**** and moan until

a winning team is there.

 

we are not sCrubs fans.

 

I'm embarrassed to be a Sox fan sometimes because of the negative commends surrounding Konerko. It's like a Bears fan blasting Butkus; it's like a Cub fan blasting Ernie Banks; it's like a Blackhawk fan bashing Bobby Hull. Paul Konerko is everything right with White Sox baseball, case closed. People just wanted him to quit after last year, the first year in a long time he started a major decline. It's so simple nowadays, just retire, just quit, don't see if you can have a bounceback season. Like I've said a million times he has not embarrassed himself yet like say, Pudge Fisk did at the end and Willie Mays at the end, etc.

 

Also as far as the people who care about draft picks, I told some huge baseball fans about people on this message board wanting the Sox to lose to improve draft stock and ALL OF THEM said, "In baseball? They care about the draft?" They laughed heartily.

 

you know greg we have been here forever, but I am little offended. I am a fan, but this season is

a lost. that does not I am not a fan, I want to improve our position in the draft, to make the rebuild

go faster.

 

then again I am a little drunk.

Edited September 20, 2014 by LDF

[Boopa1219]

Why can't we loose.

[flavum]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/standings/_/group/9/sort/winPercent

 

9th worst record, and same amount of losses as the Reds.

 

On the protected pick...the Sox have to have one of 10 worst records regardless of the Aiken situation? Is that correct?

Edited September 20, 2014 by flavum

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/standings/_/group/9/sort/winPercent

 

9th worst record, and same amount of losses as the Reds.

 

On the protected pick...the Sox have to have one of 10 worst records regardless of the Aiken situation? Is that correct?

 

Top 11 picks are protected this year, but yes, they have to be a bottom 10 record.

 

With yesterday's win, the Sox have dropped down to the 10th pick. Are 9 GB of the #1 pick, are 4 GB of the #5 pick, and are 2 games ahead of the Padres for a protected pick.

[flavum]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/standings/_/group/9/sort/winPercent

 

8th worst record, but same amount of losses as the Reds and Phillies.

 

The Padres would have to lose four more games than the Sox over the last 8 games for the Sox to fall out of the 10 worst. So the protected pick is looking safe unless something crazy happens.

 

Also, quite a race for the first pick:

 

Texas and Arizona have 93 losses, and Colorado has 91.

 

Draft lottery, please. Make a TV show out of it.

[SCCWS]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/standings/_/group/9/sort/winPercent

 

8th worst record, but same amount of losses as the Reds and Phillies.

 

The Padres would have to lose four more games than the Sox over the last 8 games for the Sox to fall out of the 10 worst. So the protected pick is looking safe unless something crazy happens.

 

Also, quite a race for the first pick:

 

Texas and Arizona have 93 losses, and Colorado has 91.

 

Draft lottery, please. Make a TV show out of it.

 

 

Very limited interest in the MLB Draft. Football and basketball drafts attract attention because the players most likely will make the roster the following year. I am pretty sure I heard where 1 player from the 2012 draft has made it to a ML roster other than the Sept call-ups.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

White Sox now have the #9 pick, are.....

 

 

6.5 GB of the #4 pick (best possible remaining)

4 GB of the #5 pick

3.5 GB of the #6 pick

2.5 GB of the #7 pick

1.5 GB of the #8 pick

3 games ahead of the Padres for a protected pick