It's about that time of the year again...

[BlackSox13]

Arizona up 5-1 in the 8th.

 

Since the Sox gained another spot, does that put them 8th now?

[Quin]

Is there really a media war in Chicago between the Sox and Cubs? And if so, how do you gauge who is winning it from China?

 

"Which team gets talked about more and how depressing is the discussion?"

[Dunt]

Certainly the most entertaining/exciting right now.

 

You've got Hendricks and Wada, Arrieta showing ace stuff, Rondon, then the three new dynamic players in Alcantara, Baez and Soler. On the other hand, Rizzo and Castro are out, but they've been playing much better baseball overall the last 2-3 weeks.

 

 

We've basically got Sale/Abreu, Eaton and Avisail...and those who get excited about Semien/Sanchez at-bats. And watching Alexei play defense.

 

There's this guy named Jose Quintana, he's pretty good, check him out

[BlackSox13]

Oh wonderful. Another thread with cubs talk and whining about how the Sox don't get enough media attention. Would someone please call the whambulance so this thread may be returned to talking about the Sox and their potential draft pick position next year? Good grief the cub dick sucking can be utterly annoying.

Edited September 4, 2014 by StRoostifer

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

With the White Sox loss tonight, the Sox gain a game on....

 

Arizona, Colorado, Minnesota, Houston, and Cubs.

 

Sox move up to the 8th pick, are 10 GB of the #1 pick, are 2.5 GB of the #5 pick, and 3 games ahead of the Reds for a protected pick.

[BlackSox13]

Thanks for the update Chili.

[oldsox]

Not much happening today with short sked. Twinkies play LAA (Code Red pitching), AZ plays Pads late.

[witesoxfan]

I was thinking of this last night - I'm not sure how much it will matter if the Sox have a protected pick or not. They will likely be semi-active in free agency, but as we saw last year, if there's a marginal talent that will cost the Sox even a 2nd round pick, they are not likely to pursue that option, and there is no one attractive enough in free agency this year for the Sox to concede either a 1st or a 2nd. Victor Martinez is the one that comes immediately to mind, but I think the Sox would be absolutely insane to give up even a 2nd round pick to the Tigers to sign a 36 year old player. If he's not offered a QO - which, why wouldn't he? - then I can see the Sox interested, but even that'd be a really short term deal.

 

Given Hahn's signings in the past, with a tendency towards guys who produce ground balls, I also can't see them being interested in James Shields either.

 

Basically, getting a higher pick isn't a bad thing, but they're already going to end up with a good pick, so the best thing to do is hope the young players hit well and keep developing, win or lose.

 

(not trying to thread-jack or say this thread is stupid, as the work put into it is appreciated)

 

 

[Dunt]

I was thinking of this last night - I'm not sure how much it will matter if the Sox have a protected pick or not. They will likely be semi-active in free agency, but as we saw last year, if there's a marginal talent that will cost the Sox even a 2nd round pick, they are not likely to pursue that option, and there is no one attractive enough in free agency this year for the Sox to concede either a 1st or a 2nd. Victor Martinez is the one that comes immediately to mind, but I think the Sox would be absolutely insane to give up even a 2nd round pick to the Tigers to sign a 36 year old player. If he's not offered a QO - which, why wouldn't he? - then I can see the Sox interested, but even that'd be a really short term deal.

 

Given Hahn's signings in the past, with a tendency towards guys who produce ground balls, I also can't see them being interested in James Shields either.

 

Basically, getting a higher pick isn't a bad thing, but they're already going to end up with a good pick, so the best thing to do is hope the young players hit well and keep developing, win or lose.

 

(not trying to thread-jack or say this thread is stupid, as the work put into it is appreciated)

 

Guys like Martin and Tomas will not cost picks (I dont imagine the Pirates will extend Martin a QO)

[witesoxfan]

Guys like Martin and Tomas will not cost picks (I dont imagine the Pirates will extend Martin a QO)

 

Semi-active. If the don't cost a pick, I can see the Sox being involved. If they do, I do not. I don't think they'll completely abstain from free agency.

[caulfield12]

I was thinking of this last night - I'm not sure how much it will matter if the Sox have a protected pick or not. They will likely be semi-active in free agency, but as we saw last year, if there's a marginal talent that will cost the Sox even a 2nd round pick, they are not likely to pursue that option, and there is no one attractive enough in free agency this year for the Sox to concede either a 1st or a 2nd. Victor Martinez is the one that comes immediately to mind, but I think the Sox would be absolutely insane to give up even a 2nd round pick to the Tigers to sign a 36 year old player. If he's not offered a QO - which, why wouldn't he? - then I can see the Sox interested, but even that'd be a really short term deal.

 

Given Hahn's signings in the past, with a tendency towards guys who produce ground balls, I also can't see them being interested in James Shields either.

 

Basically, getting a higher pick isn't a bad thing, but they're already going to end up with a good pick, so the best thing to do is hope the young players hit well and keep developing, win or lose.

 

(not trying to thread-jack or say this thread is stupid, as the work put into it is appreciated)

 

 

The problem with this line of thinking is that Anderson/Montas/Hawkins/Danish are all probably at least 1.5 seasons away. (Not to mention that Davidson for the moment doesn't look close to being a viable option at 3B, and likewise with Erik Johnson and the starting rotation.)

 

That means they're probably not going to be ready to legitimately compete as part of the team until AT BEST the start of the 2017 campaign, assuming they get their feet wet from July-September, 2016. The White Sox simply can't afford to punt away two more years of Abreu and Sale, because Chris is a sort of ticking time bomb that as soon as it goes, it blows up with it any chance for the White Sox to be competitive. And we also aren't sure exactly how long Abreu can play without experiencing more serious foot/ankle problems as well. In 2008, before Quentin broke his hand...if you would have predicted the rest of his stats with the White Sox and then seen what we got in trade return, you wouldn't have believed it. You can never take ANYTHING for granted, ask the A's and Tigers how well that's going for them.

 

At any rate, if they're left trying to compete with the likes of Rasmus, Markakis and Morse (one of them, guys not receiving QO's), that's just not going to be a big enough improvement offensively to move the meter. It might actually be a downgrade, for all we know. Probably not, but maybe.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Semi-active. If the don't cost a pick, I can see the Sox being involved. If they do, I do not. I don't think they'll completely abstain from free agency.

 

We can practically guarantee the Micah Johnson isn't ready, that Carlos Sanchez will be adequate but not great at 2B (650-675ish OPS)....the big wild card right now for next year is Marcus Semien IMO.

 

If he can become a legit force, then the line-up starts to take shape, along with the emergence of Avisail Garcia as a legit force in the middle of that line-up. If not, they're in a world of hurt, and you start having conversations about either spending their way out of the mess going into 2016 or trading Abreu/Sale/Quintana and building around Rodon, which I'm sure NOBODY wants to ever see happen.

 

It's unlikely that Wilkins even ends up as even the part-time DH, from everything scouts have said about Wilkins' flaws/defects.

 

Many are also calling for a Gillaspie regression....Alexei can't be any better than this season, anything can happen with Flowers and it's hard for Abreu and Eaton to be much more productive (Adam just has to stay on the field for 145-150 games).

[witesoxfan]

The problem with this line of thinking is that Anderson/Montas/Hawkins/Danish are all probably at least 1.5 seasons away. (Not to mention that Davidson for the moment doesn't look close to being a viable option at 3B, and likewise with Erik Johnson and the starting rotation.)

 

That means they're probably not going to be ready to legitimately compete as part of the team until AT BEST the start of the 2017 campaign, assuming they get their feet wet from July-September, 2016. The White Sox simply can't afford to punt away two more years of Abreu and Sale, because Chris is a sort of ticking time bomb that as soon as it goes, it blows up with it any chance for the White Sox to be competitive. And we also aren't sure exactly how long Abreu can play without experiencing more serious foot/ankle problems as well. In 2008, before Quentin broke his hand...if you would have predicted the rest of his stats with the White Sox and then seen what we got in trade return, you wouldn't have believed it. You can never take ANYTHING for granted, ask the A's and Tigers how well that's going for them.

 

At any rate, if they're left trying to compete with the likes of Rasmus, Markakis and Morse (one of them, guys not receiving QO's), that's just not going to be a big enough improvement offensively to move the meter. It might actually be a downgrade, for all we know. Probably not, but maybe.

 

You are seemingly completely ruling out the possibility of a trade. I don't understand why. If they are going to get an impact player (or two), I envision it coming through trade, and I definitely see that happening. Who they give up is an entirely different question, but there are all kinds of possibilities on that front.

 

This is a weak free agent class.

[southsider2k5]

You are seemingly completely ruling out the possibility of a trade. I don't understand why. If they are going to get an impact player (or two), I envision it coming through trade, and I definitely see that happening. Who they give up is an entirely different question, but there are all kinds of possibilities on that front.

 

This is a weak free agent class.

 

the White Sox love trades and hate the free agent market historically. Plus our GM even mentioned bringing in a big dollar contract through a trade.

[caulfield12]

You are seemingly completely ruling out the possibility of a trade. I don't understand why. If they are going to get an impact player (or two), I envision it coming through trade, and I definitely see that happening. Who they give up is an entirely different question, but there are all kinds of possibilities on that front.

 

This is a weak free agent class.

 

 

Other than Alexei Ramirez (obviously there are arguments on both sides of this one), who are you willing to part with that has any value to another team?

 

We all know the KW move would have been to fashion some sort of package out of our minor leagues for an established major league player...which worked well in 2004 and but didn't work so much after 2008.

 

What would you be able to get back trading Conor Gillaspie? Probably not as much as we think, right? Viciedo's flaws have been discussed and dissected ad infinitum, so that's not going to accomplish much by trading him, either.

 

Let's face it, unless we trade Tim Anderson, it's doubtful we can arrange a trade that will bring back a young, cost-controlled player in the vein of a Heyward or Stanton, and even that type of move's dubious if we have no way to keep them with the organization long-term.

Edited September 4, 2014 by caulfield12

[witesoxfan]

Other than Alexei Ramirez (obviously there are arguments on both sides of this one), who are you willing to part with that has any value to another team?

 

We all know the KW move would have been to fashion some sort of package out of our minor leagues for an established major league player...which worked well in 2004 and but didn't work so much after 2008.

 

What would you be able to get back trading Conor Gillaspie? Probably not as much as we think, right? Viciedo's flaws have been discussed and dissected ad infinitum, so that's not going to accomplish much by trading him, either.

 

Let's face it, unless we trade Tim Anderson, it's doubtful we can arrange a trade that will bring back a young, cost-controlled player in the vein of a Heyward or Stanton, and even that type of move's dubious if we have no way to keep them with the organization long-term.

 

You don't have to bring in Heyward or Stanton. You don't have to trade someone from the major league team. You can, but you don't have to.

 

The Sox right now have plenty of good prospects that, while nice to have, are non-essential.

[caulfield12]

You don't have to bring in Heyward or Stanton. You don't have to trade someone from the major league team. You can, but you don't have to.

 

The Sox right now have plenty of good prospects that, while nice to have, are non-essential.

 

Sure, at least one of Semien/Johnson/Sanchez.

 

One of Danish and Montas.

 

Probably Hawkins, although is power is badly needed in the major league outfield, it's at least 1 1/2 to 2 seasons away.

 

Barnum would be nice to hold onto to see if he can develop, just like Rondon.

 

 

So if you traded Semien or Sanchez, Danish or Montas (choose the one who becomes either a starter or closer, trade the other), Courtney Hawkins and let's say Trey M., what exactly does that get you?

 

We'd still hold onto Rodon, Adams, Timmy Anderson, two of our middle infield prospects, Danish or Montas, Davidson and Erik Johnson, Beck, etc., but what would you realistically expect to get in return for those guys?

Edited September 4, 2014 by caulfield12

[witesoxfan]

Sure, at least one of Semien/Johnson/Sanchez.

 

One of Danish and Montas.

 

Probably Hawkins, although is power is badly needed in the major league outfield, it's at least 1 1/2 to 2 seasons away.

 

Barnum would be nice to hold onto to see if he can develop, just like Rondon.

 

 

So if you traded Semien or Sanchez, Danish or Montas (choose the one who becomes either a starter or closer, trade the other), Courtney Hawkins and let's say Trey M., what exactly does that get you?

 

We'd still hold onto Rodon, Adams, Timmy Anderson, two of our middle infield prospects, Danish or Montas, Davidson and Erik Johnson, Beck, etc., but what would you realistically expect to get in return for those guys?

 

I don't know, and I don't know why you're limiting it to just those guys. If you offered Semien, Montas, Hawkins, and Michaczewski for Stanton, and they said they'd do it if you substituted Anderson for Semien and Beck for Montas, are you really going to say "NO ANDERSON IS OUR FUTURE WE CANNOT DEAL HIM AT ANY COST!" when Stanton is that good? Of course, not, you'd make that move in a second. (they likely wouldn't say that, this was merely a hypothetical example of when you'd trade certain players).

 

So much of what you are saying is subject to the teams with whom you'd be doing business, how they value the players, and who you're trying to acquire. A team like the Astros or Padres are likely going to value prospects over established players, while you may be looking to make 2-3 smaller upgrades or looking to acquire a bad contract or a lesser player via trade instead.

 

Speculation like this is idle and pointless. I'm saying three things - that the Sox are almost certainly not going to sign a free agent tied to draft compensation, they will still be active in free agency otherwise, and that they will likely seek upgrades through trades. I'm really not saying anything else. It's not profound or bold in any way.

[The Wiz]

I was thinking of this last night - I'm not sure how much it will matter if the Sox have a protected pick or not. They will likely be semi-active in free agency, but as we saw last year, if there's a marginal talent that will cost the Sox even a 2nd round pick, they are not likely to pursue that option, and there is no one attractive enough in free agency this year for the Sox to concede either a 1st or a 2nd. Victor Martinez is the one that comes immediately to mind, but I think the Sox would be absolutely insane to give up even a 2nd round pick to the Tigers to sign a 36 year old player. If he's not offered a QO - which, why wouldn't he? - then I can see the Sox interested, but even that'd be a really short term deal.

 

Given Hahn's signings in the past, with a tendency towards guys who produce ground balls, I also can't see them being interested in James Shields either.

 

Basically, getting a higher pick isn't a bad thing, but they're already going to end up with a good pick, so the best thing to do is hope the young players hit well and keep developing, win or lose.

 

(not trying to thread-jack or say this thread is stupid, as the work put into it is appreciated)

I don't understand how the previous offseasons relate to this one at all. First off this upcoming offseason the Sox will literally have at least 30 million to spend I'd say. 2nd off, 2014 is/was clearly a rebuilding/retooling year while we wait to clear the roster of the deadweight.

 

The Sox aren't the Cubs, they can't commit to a long term rebuild over several years and still expect to draw fans to the park. They definitely are going to make 1 big free agent signing because they have to and try and get some excitement around the team, 2nd round draft pick be damned.

[witesoxfan]

I don't understand how the previous offseasons relate to this one at all. First off this upcoming offseason the Sox will literally have at least 30 million to spend I'd say. 2nd off, 2014 is/was clearly a rebuilding/retooling year while we wait to clear the roster of the deadweight.

 

The Sox aren't the Cubs, they can't commit to a long term rebuild over several years and still expect to draw fans to the park. They definitely are going to make 1 big free agent signing because they have to and try and get some excitement around the team, 2nd round draft pick be damned.

 

I'm not suggesting they commit to a long-term rebuild. I'm suggesting that the types of players who will [likely] receive a qualifying offer that the Sox might be interested in otherwise will not be worthy of giving up a draft pick.

 

The previous offseason is meaningful (as are the offseasons before that) because it sets a precedent for how teams look to upgrade their teams. The Sox have shown in the past that they believe it is more cost effective for them to trade assets as opposed to signing free agents. It increases their range of options for which to choose and also decreases the amount of money they will spend on the transaction. It does not mean they don't sign free agents, just that they do it only when appropriate - Abreu and Dunn come to mind immediately, while they made several lesser signings and were involved on the Tanaka bidding until the end.

 

I believe they will spend money, but I do not know how they will do it. I do not believe they will be signing someone that is tied to draft compensation. The one guy who I think they might be interested for whom there is a possibility that a qualifying offer might be made is Russell Martin, and frankly that may be enough to deter them.

 

Here are the potential free agents, rather than a list of like 10 guys. It gives a much clearer indication of who will be available. There are plenty of interesting names for whom the Sox could show a lot of interest. There's still not a ton of high quality free agents. http://www.baseballprospectus.com/compensa...gents-for-2015/

[Chicago White Sox]

I don't understand how the previous offseasons relate to this one at all. First off this upcoming offseason the Sox will literally have at least 30 million to spend I'd say. 2nd off, 2014 is/was clearly a rebuilding/retooling year while we wait to clear the roster of the deadweight.

 

The Sox aren't the Cubs, they can't commit to a long term rebuild over several years and still expect to draw fans to the park. They definitely are going to make 1 big free agent signing because they have to and try and get some excitement around the team, 2nd round draft pick be damned.

Yeah, I don't get why it's so bad to lose a 2nd round pick that is years away but trading away several prospects to acquire a player is acceptable.

[The Wiz]

Sign Victor Martinez, Justin Masterson, and bullpen arm. Trade for Matt Holliday (need to make room for Piscotty and their glut of OF prospects) and other minor deals for relief pitching help. Trade Alexei and let Semien/Sanchez/Johnson/Gillaspie battle it out for PT from the 2B/3B/SS positions.

 

Offense will be much improved with two impact bats behind Abreu. While they are older and expensive, they will only be on the books for a couple years so you can compete with them and have time to find younger replacements.

 

Rodon will be up sometime in June most likely.

 

Whatever you do, hold on to Danish, he will be good and get a cup of coffee in September.

 

1. Eaton, CF

2. Semien/Sanchez/Johnson/Gillaspie, 2B/3B/SS

3. Abreu, 1B

4. Martinez, DH

5. Holliday, LF

6. Garcia, RF

7. Semien/Sanchez/Johnson/Gillaspie, 2B/3B/SS

8. Flowers, C

9. Semien/Sanchez/Johnson/Gillaspie, 2B/3B/SS

 

Also look for a left handed hitting catcher who can platoon with Flowers. Easier said than done.

 

1. Sale

2. Quintana

3. Masterson

4. Danks

5. Noesi

 

Bullpen still a crapshoot but can't get much worse.

Edited September 4, 2014 by The Wiz

[Y2Jimmy0]

Giancarlo Stanton on the White Sox is a pipe dream. Not sure why it keeps getting discussed, especially in the lose for a draft pick thread.

[witesoxfan]

Yeah, I don't get why it's so bad to lose a 2nd round pick that is years away but trading away several prospects to acquire a player is acceptable.

 

I've never said I have a problem with it. I said I don't expect them to this offseason due to the age and quality of the free agents out there compared to the quality and age of those who will likely not receive qualifying offers.

 

If Victor Martinez or James Shields receive qualifying offers - again, I see no reason they wouldn't - that will deter the White Sox from signing them given the expected depreciation of value expected throughout those deals.

 

If a quality free agent were hitting the market that received a qualifying offer that fit a huge need or would provide a signficant upgrade - Adam Dunn from 2011 would be the example I'd give in this instance, no matter how poorly that panned out - I'd have absolutely no problem with the Sox signing them.

 

Giancarlo Stanton on the White Sox is a pipe dream. Not sure why it keeps getting discussed, especially in the lose for a draft pick thread.

 

It was just a hypothetical in this instance to an incredibly vague question. I only suggested it for example's sake.

[caulfield12]

Sign Victor Martinez, Justin Masterson, and bullpen arm. Trade for Matt Holliday (need to make room for Piscotty and their glut of OF prospects) and other minor deals for relief pitching help. Trade Alexei and let Semien/Sanchez/Johnson/Gillaspie battle it out for PT from the 2B/3B/SS positions.

 

Offense will be much improved with two impact bats behind Abreu. While they are older and expensive, they will only be on the books for a couple years so you can compete with them and have time to find younger replacements.

 

Rodon will be up sometime in June most likely.

 

Whatever you do, hold on to Danish, he will be good and get a cup of coffee in September.

 

1. Eaton, CF

2. Semien/Sanchez/Johnson/Gillaspie, 2B/3B/SS

3. Abreu, 1B

4. Martinez, DH

5. Holliday, LF

6. Garcia, RF

7. Semien/Sanchez/Johnson/Gillaspie, 2B/3B/SS

8. Flowers, C

9. Semien/Sanchez/Johnson/Gillaspie, 2B/3B/SS

 

Also look for a left handed hitting catcher who can platoon with Flowers. Easier said than done.

 

1. Sale

2. Quintana

3. Masterson

4. Danks

5. Noesi

 

Bullpen still a crapshoot but can't get much worse.

 

 

The Cardinals love Holliday, he's their leader now in many ways, along with Molina.

 

Despite his age and somewhat diminished production (around an 800 OPS, which is still pretty respectable), they think his body type and notoriously brutal and grueling off-season workout habits will push his productive years into the mid or even late 30's.