Konerko's Farewell Tour

[lasttriptotulsa]

don't think so. not important now.

 

http://m.mlb.com/video/v3461473/2005-ws-gm...pions/?c_id=mlb

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Development time? Whose development time has he taken away ? How many games in the standings did he really cost the team, and what difference would that have made if you even are correct besides perhaps Carlos Rodon being a Cub?

Funny I thought this was a rebuilding year. He wasn't going to be traded so he's pretty useless for a rebuild, He's not young nor does he need AB's to develop so pretty useless for a rebuild. He's well paid, set up for life while getting to retire 25 yrs. before a working stiff. He'll get a statue most likely and he gets to go out on his terms ? Most of us would've just liked it if he didn't take up valuable space on this years roster. It has nothing to do with the enjoyment of his fine career. This was a year for youth and speed and athleticism to be served , to building for the future. Paulie contributed nothing to those things so some us question how dedicated Hahn might be to a rebuild if he can appear to not care about every spot on the 25 being used to achieve his goal.

 

He's been extremely well compensated for his efforts. Go for a rebuild with every resource you have or I can't take you seriously. There's only so much time Sox fans will have patience for a last place low payroll team but might have a little more if they feel the effort from the front office is pure. PK already has all of what most of us have to break our backs for. He didn't have to stand in the way of progress also.

[Eminor3rd]

Funny I thought this was a rebuilding year. He wasn't going to be traded so he's pretty useless for a rebuild, He's not young nor does he need AB's to develop so pretty useless for a rebuild. He's well paid, set up for life while getting to retire 25 yrs. before a working stiff. He'll get a statue most likely and he gets to go out on his terms ? Most of us would've just liked it if he didn't take up valuable space on this years roster. It has nothing to do with the enjoyment of his fine career. This was a year for youth and speed and athleticism to be served , to building for the future. Paulie contributed nothing to those things so some us question how dedicated Hahn might be to a rebuild if he can appear to not care about every spot on the 25 being used to achieve his goal.

 

He's been extremely well compensated for his efforts. Go for a rebuild with every resource you have or I can't take you seriously. There's only so much time Sox fans will have patience for a last place low payroll team but might have a little more if they feel the effort from the front office is pure. PK already has all of what most of us have to break our backs for. He didn't have to stand in the way of progress also.

 

I'd be upset about it if it turned out that it mattered. But it hasn't, so it's a waste to stress out over it, IMO. PK got his "one more year," and it didn't cost us much anything. Maybe his leadership helped a bit. He certainly protected Dunn against lefties, which, we hoped would help us trade him, but it didn't. Oh well.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I'd be upset about it if it turned out that it mattered. But it hasn't, so it's a waste to stress out over it, IMO. PK got his "one more year," and it didn't cost us much anything. Maybe his leadership helped a bit. He certainly protected Dunn against lefties, which, we hoped would help us trade him, but it didn't. Oh well.

I'm certainly not going to say I can predict the future and say one more year of PK will hurt the franchise in the long run nor should you by saying it hasn't mattered. It just sent mixed messages to how truly dedicated Sox management is to a rebuild, I understand Reinsdorf wants to show loyalty to Sox players and how important that is to him.

 

The Blackhawks dumped Denis Savard as coach when they felt he wasn't the coach they needed going forward yet kept him in another capacity. They brought in Scotty Bowman a guy who had years and years of success for Montreal and Detroit. What did the Sox do? They hired a former player to manage the team with no experience and then gave him an extension. They gave PK another year.

 

Would it have been "nice" for the Hawks to be loyal to former players ?Yes very nice. But I'll take contending for the Stanley Cup and hiring winners with proven track records every time. Wnners do not do what Sox management is doing. It's really no surprise that the rebuild has hit a major snafu already and none of us should be surprised if we see another 5+ years of not making the playoffs.

Edited August 12, 2014 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Dick Allen]

I'm certainly not going to say I can predict the future and say one more year of PK will hurt the franchise in the long run nor should you by saying it doesn't matter. It just sent mixed messages to how truly dedicated Sox management is to a rebuild, I understand Reinsdorf wants to show loyalty to Sox players and how important that is to him.

 

The Blackhawks dumped Denis Savard as coach when they felt he wasn't the coach they needed going forward yet kept him in another capacity. They brought in Scotty Bowman a guy who had years and years of success for Montreal and Detroit. What did the Sox do? They hired a former player to manage the team with no experience and then gave him an extension. They gave PK another year.

 

Would it have been "nice" for the Hawks to be loyal to former players ?Yes very nice. But I'll take contending for the Stanley Cup and hiring winners with proven track records every time.

Konerko is in a positon to barely get 200 plate apperances for the season. Do you really want a young player with potential to be a regular basically wasting a year of development ? Your complaining might be valid if Paulie expected to be a regular, but he was a PH and an option vs. LHP which there isn't a lot of, and he is supposedly mentoring. His being on the roster didn't hurt anyone's development. Who should have had his role?

Edited August 12, 2014 by Dick Allen

[southsider2k5]

I'm certainly not going to say I can predict the future and say one more year of PK will hurt the franchise in the long run nor should you by saying it hasn't mattered. It just sent mixed messages to how truly dedicated Sox management is to a rebuild, I understand Reinsdorf wants to show loyalty to Sox players and how important that is to him.

 

The Blackhawks dumped Denis Savard as coach when they felt he wasn't the coach they needed going forward yet kept him in another capacity. They brought in Scotty Bowman a guy who had years and years of success for Montreal and Detroit. What did the Sox do? They hired a former player to manage the team with no experience and then gave him an extension. They gave PK another year.

 

Would it have been "nice" for the Hawks to be loyal to former players ?Yes very nice. But I'll take contending for the Stanley Cup and hiring winners with proven track records every time.

 

The Hawks aren't a great example when they bring back guys like Michal Handzus and Nikolai Khabibulin, because of leadership and experience.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Konerko is in a positon to barely get 200 plate apperances for the season. Do you really want a young player with potential to be a regular basically wasting a year of development ? Your complaining might be valid if Paulie expected to be a regular, but he was a PH and an option vs. LHP which there isn't a lot of, and he is supposedly mentoring. His being on the roster didn't hurt anyone's development. Who should have had his role?

Your reading comprehension needs some work. I just got finished saying I can't predict the future on whether having PK hurt the franchise in the long run and it's not about the 25th spot on the team. It's about doing the things that winners do , showing the fans you're 100% dedicated to building a winner. There is no room for sentiment . The fans had plenty of time last year to say goodbye to PK .

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

The Hawks aren't a great example when they bring back guys like Michal Handzus and Nikolai Khabibulin, because of leadership and experience.

If the Sox were winning like the Hawks do having vets play some minor bench roles would be fine but they aren't.

[Dick Allen]

Your reading comprehension needs some work. I just got finished saying I can't predict the future on whether having PK hurt the franchise in the long run and it's not about the 25th spot on the team. It's about doing the things that winners do , showing the fans you're 100% dedicated to building a winner. There is no room for sentiment . The fans had plenty of time last year to say goodbye to PK .

But that is what they were doing. It was a role where you aren't going to "develop" someone. He is mentoring, which should have some value. It isn't a role that is to be judged soley by his on field performance, which, BTW, was fine for the role he has been in.

 

It is rare a player with Konerko's stature takes a role like this. But that shouldn't mean anything negative.

 

If Paul Konerko being on this roster makes you think the White Sox aren't 100% dedicated to building a winner, perhaps you are the one with comprehension issues.

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

If the Sox were winning like the Hawks do having vets play some minor bench roles would be fine but they aren't.

 

But it does go to show that even the most successful franchises believe in the value of the presence of veteran players on a roster, even if their performances aren't up to historical norms.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

But it does go to show that even the most successful franchises believe in the value of the presence of veteran players on a roster, even if their performances aren't up to historical norms.

On a winning team yes on a rebuilding team no.

[southsider2k5]

On a winning team yes on a rebuilding team no.

 

I would think the opposite. On team that already has superstars, the need for leadership is less, not more. On a team where a decent chunk is learning how to be major leaguers there is a value there in having someone around to show you how it is done. I honestly believe that is a part of why some franchises never break out of perpetual rebuilding, and why others are able to bring kids in like it is no problem. You aren't only teaching on the field stuff, you are teaching off of the field stuff as well.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

But that is what they were doing. It was a role where you aren't going to "develop" someone. He is mentoring, which should have some value. It isn't a role that is to be judged soley by his on field performance, which, BTW, was fine for the role he has been in.

 

It is rare a player with Konerko's stature takes a role like this. But that shouldn't mean anything negative.

 

If Paul Konerko being on this roster makes you think the White Sox aren't 100% dedicated to building a winner, perhaps you are the one with comprehension issues.

Coaches mentor . Players play. Why should the 25th man be relegated to doing what PK does ? You build a young roster . You use young guys as interchangeable parts rotating them in and out , getting a feel for if they will be useful for the future, building value . What part of old and valueless for the future of a rebuilding franchise do you not understand ?

[Balta1701]

But it does go to show that even the most successful franchises believe in the value of the presence of veteran players on a roster, even if their performances aren't up to historical norms.

if you really want to do that in this thread...Paul Konerko has been the team captain and veteran presence on a team that has spent more than half a decade consistently underperforming projections and disappointing in its results. Guys who were supposed to benefit from his guidance, like our current 2b, have been utter disappointments.

[southsider2k5]

Coaches mentor . Players play. Why should the 25th man be relegated to doing what PK does ? You build a young roster . You use young guys as interchangeable parts rotating them in and out , getting a feel for if they will be useful for the future, building value . What part of old and valueless for the future of a rebuilding franchise do you not understand ?

 

For the role that Konerko played, I would have much rather seen this imaginary player get 500 ABs in AAA, vs 200ish ABs on the Sox bench.

 

Plus your definition of "value" seems to be all statistical. There is a value to having an idea of how to conduct yourself in the game of baseball. That has value. Listen to what the young guys on this value say about Konerko. They don't see him as "valueless". That is reserved for fans who are removed from the game.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

For the role that Konerko played, I would have much rather seen this imaginary player get 500 ABs in AAA, vs 200ish ABs on the Sox bench.

 

Plus your definition of "value" seems to be all statistical. There is a value to having an idea of how to conduct yourself in the game of baseball. That has value. Listen to what the young guys on this value say about Konerko. They don't see him as "valueless". That is reserved for fans who are removed from the game.

Not just talking about 1 player. Perhaps the last 3 bench players all get 350 AB's , a point when you can start making more informed decisions about them . Keep him as a coach if that's something important going forward. Have him teach that stuff in the lowest levels of the minor leagues where it can take root and help players develop . Less leadership and more talent and winning a lot of baseball games is more important at the Major League level.

[southsider2k5]

Not just talking about 1 player. Perhaps the last 3 bench players all get 350 AB's , a point when you can start making more informed decisions about them . Keep him as a coach if that's something important going forward. Have him teach that stuff in the lowest levels of the minor leagues where it can take root and help players develop . Less leadership and more talent and winning a lot of baseball games is more important at the Major League level.

 

All of the guys who get to the majors have talent. The guys who know how to use and harness that talent are the ones who succeed at the major league level. Some players get it, some need leadership, and others never get it.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

All of the guys who get to the majors have talent. The guys who know how to use and harness that talent are the ones who succeed at the major league level. Some players get it, some need leadership, and others never get it.

You know I mean enough talent to win games without being mentored or led to that talent at the highest level, No problem with being helped between the ears at all when you need it most at lower levels.

[greg775]

Treat your players with respect. He still gets the loudest cheers at USCF. It is good at least the "casual" fan appreciates him. Call me a meathead fan, but his overall body of work, and this one AB should be enough for White Sox fans to let him go out like he wants to go out

 

Great post. I'm glad fans at the cell are like me and cherish each paulie at bat

 

Funny I thought this was a rebuilding year. He wasn't going to be traded so he's pretty useless for a rebuild, He's not young nor does he need AB's to develop so pretty useless for a rebuild. He's well paid, set up for life while getting to retire 25 yrs. before a working stiff. He'll get a statue most likely and he gets to go out on his terms ? Most of us would've just liked it if he didn't take up valuable space on this years roster. It has nothing to do with the enjoyment of his fine career. This was a year for youth and speed and athleticism to be served , to building for the future. Paulie contributed nothing to those things so some us question how dedicated Hahn might be to a rebuild if he can appear to not care about every spot on the 25 being used to achieve his goal.

 

He's been extremely well compensated for his efforts. Go for a rebuild with every resource you have or I can't take you seriously. There's only so much time Sox fans will have patience for a last place low payroll team but might have a little more if they feel the effort from the front office is pure. PK already has all of what most of us have to break our backs for. He didn't have to stand in the way of progress also.

 

Wow. Paulie standing in the way of progress? If he's so lousy, so bad a hitter, so terrible then Hahn should be fired for keeping him on the roster. Paulie doesn't write the checks. I savor every one of his at bats as much as u despise them.

[greg775]

I think this thread has become kind of disrespectful to a sox legend and nobody can deny his status in sox lore. I think it is making sox fans look bad but I'm all for free speech too. Anybody agree?

[oldsox]

No. Uribe's throw was perfect. Head high on the money.

Saw your link. As I said, perfect throw. For almost 9 years now I thought PK dug it out of the dirt. Thanks.

[witesoxfan]

I think this thread has become kind of disrespectful to a sox legend and nobody can deny his status in sox lore. I think it is making sox fans look bad but I'm all for free speech too. Anybody agree?

 

I think people are entitled to their opinion and I have seen nothing vulgar, offensive, nor disrespectful in this thread at all. Konerko will always be remembered fondly, but there is some disagreement in how great his numbers are. Compared to his contemporaries, he was a good, not great 1B, but he was [usually] a pretty solid rock in the middle of the lineup and he had some fantastic seasons and he had some insanely clutch and important hits in his career.

 

He's a Sox legend, and I don't think anyone here is going to deny that.

[Rowand44]

Lets talk about Konerko's 2003 season, just because...

[witesoxfan]

Lets talk about Konerko's 2003 season, just because...

 

That homer he hit off Guardado was awesome. I remember freaking out in my living room at the time. Thomas came up the next inning, hit a long one foul and then hit a long one fair.

[Rowand44]

That homer he hit off Guardado was awesome. I remember freaking out in my living room at the time. Thomas came up the next inning, hit a long one foul and then hit a long one fair.

Ha ya, I knew that'd be the first comment, I'll never forget that game either.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Rowand44