caulfield12 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 NASCAR doesn't "own" or "control" the drivers, to the extent the teams are like individual corporations or entities... So, at the moment, they can't keep their "brand" from being damaged in such incidents, at present...and they can't force Stewart not to race today. One would think that Bill France is getting a lot of calls already. Remember, Stewart's going to be facing a lot of protesters and angry family members in that region of the country...it's going to be like a hornet's next. Can you imagine this situation NOT becoming a distraction to the race itself, the other drivers and their teams, the sponsors for all the other NASCAR teams will be forced to have opinions. Stewart's own sponsors will quickly have to make snap decisions whether to stick by him or not...and then deal with the public relations fallout from such decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 QUOTE (Brian @ Aug 10, 2014 -> 02:31 PM) I meant people in general who say they think there was intent. Especially hit with the back tight tire and that the guy kept walking toward him. Does not seem as clear cut as Twitter believes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Brian @ Aug 10, 2014 -> 06:29 AM) How can you tell it was on purpose? I finally brought myself to watch the video and can't tell if there is intent or not. The kid is walking in the middle of a car race. WTF. The blue car went past and ALMOST hit him. That said, he (blue car) was able to keep his line much lower on the track, and there SHOULD have been enough time for him (Stewart) to correct his line. Forward vision is supposedly a non-issue in those types of sprint cars, according to those who drive them. It's the fact that he was CLEARLY upset with Stewart and shouting/screaming at him and that it was Stewart who actually hit him...just feels completely non-random. Nobody WANTS to believe it was intentional, and yet everyone understands the concept of "road rage" and the possibility he was trying to teach him a lesson or put him in his place and the situation just went out of control and he made a mistake and couldn't control his car (the fishtail) and its speed, although clearly witnesses believed he intentionally sped up or revved/gunned it. That and the fact that the race was under caution or yellow when it happened after the accident. Edited August 10, 2014 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 10, 2014 -> 06:40 AM) The blue car went past and ALMOST hit him. That said, he (blue car) was able to keep his line much lower on the track, and there SHOULD have been enough time for him (Stewart) to correct his line. Forward vision is supposedly a non-issue in those types of sprint cars, according to those who drive them. It's the fact that he was CLEARLY upset with Stewart and shouting/screaming at him and that it was Stewart who actually hit him...just feels completely non-random. Nobody WANTS to believe it was intentional, and yet everyone understands the concept of "road rage" and the possibility he was trying to teach him a lesson or put him in his place and the situation just went out of control and he made a mistake and couldn't control his car (the fishtail) and its speed, although clearly witnesses believed he intentionally sped up or revved/gunned it. That and the fact that the race was under caution or yellow when it happened after the accident. He totally tried to scare him...let's not be naive....the other cars are slowing down and avoiding that area of the track, and then Stewart drives right towards him and guns the throttle. It was not entirely accidental. I do highly doubt he tried to actually hit him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 If you watch the video again, you can definitely hear Stewart hit the throttle right as he's about to hit the young man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Yeah, it seems like he was definitely trying to f*** with the kid. I think, even if Stewart is the worst human being ever, he'd know better than to intentionally strike the kid with his car in full public view like that. Doesn't excuse doing what he did, though, as trying to intimidate someone with your car is idiotic for that very reason...it's extremely dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Yeah, you can't tell anything from that video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 We all know Tony didn't try and kill the guy, but he absolutely acted recklessly and contributed to his death. And now Stewarts history of anger issues and wrecking other cars on purpose and hurting other drivers will come into play Caulfield, Teddy Kennedy? For real? Wtf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 10, 2014 -> 09:05 AM) Yeah, you can't tell anything from that video. Turn the volume up. I did, definitely heard the throttle accelerate right as Stewart hit the kid. Not to say that he did it on purpose, but maybe as others have said to scare him, but he definitely sped up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Aug 10, 2014 -> 09:07 AM) Turn the volume up. I did, definitely heard the throttle accelerate right as Stewart hit the kid. Not to say that he did it on purpose, but maybe as others have said to scare him, but he definitely sped up. I'm not sure that is his engine. There are how many other cars on the track. Tons of ambient noise at a place like that. Considering that the camera is pointed across to the far side of the track, there is a really good chance that the mic is picking up a car on the near side of the track, much closer to the camera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 10, 2014 -> 09:17 AM) I'm not sure that is his engine. There are how many other cars on the track. Tons of ambient noise at a place like that. Considering that the camera is pointed across to the far side of the track, there is a really good chance that the mic is picking up a car on the near side of the track, much closer to the camera. You're right, odd that it happened at the same time he struck the kid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Aug 10, 2014 -> 09:18 AM) You're right, odd that it happened at the same time he struck the kid. Im not even saying it didn't happen that way, I just don't see anything clear cut from that little bit. I can't see the car until it is pretty much on top of his, so I can't tell if it does accelerate or not. All I can see is it get sideways when it hits the kid, probably from the kid dragging knocking the car to the side. The engine noise is tough to place in this shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmteam Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 10, 2014 -> 07:44 AM) The one thing I noticed is the other car(s) seemed to really slow down once the guy was out of his car and on foot on the track. Then you see this other car come up much more quickly, and you can hear him rev his engine right as he passes him. I don't believe he "intentionally" hit him; I do believe he acted recklessly in trying to frighten him. They both used very poor judgment (too much testosterone) and now a kid is dead for it. Right now, this definitely seems like the best guess at what happened. EDIT: Even if that's true, recklessness is still a felony murder in most jurisdictions. It's not manslaughter. Edited August 10, 2014 by farmteam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 The cops aren't gonna be listening to the track noise. They are going to be listening to the communications between Tony and his team to see if Tony said anything like "I'm gonna give this kid a thrill when I pass him" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 10, 2014 -> 07:22 AM) Im not even saying it didn't happen that way, I just don't see anything clear cut from that little bit. I can't see the car until it is pretty much on top of his, so I can't tell if it does accelerate or not. All I can see is it get sideways when it hits the kid, probably from the kid dragging knocking the car to the side. The engine noise is tough to place in this shot. You don't think it is coincidental that his car accelerates at the same time we hear an engine throttle up, at the same time we see his car fishtail? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 10, 2014 -> 08:05 AM) We all know Tony didn't try and kill the guy, but he absolutely acted recklessly and contributed to his death. And now Stewarts history of anger issues and wrecking other cars on purpose and hurting other drivers will come into play Caulfield, Teddy Kennedy? For real? Wtf You're telling me his reputation isn't going to be severely tarnished from this point onward? That's not realistic. EVERY sports show on this morning, that's ALL everyone wanted to talk about. Give me another example of a famous person directly being held responsible for someone else's death, where it's clearly not murder...but MANY feel that it's pretty close, reckless endangerment/involuntary manslaughter, etc. Needless to say, there will be a ton of pressure on his sponsors. By the way, it was just announced 10 minutes ago Stewart wasn't racing today. Edited August 10, 2014 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 10, 2014 -> 09:39 AM) You're telling me his reputation isn't going to be tarnished from this point onward. That's not realistic. EVERY sports show on this morning, that's ALL everyone wanted to talk about. By the way, it was just announced 10 minutes ago Stewart wasn't racing today. I'm telling you that the situations aren't even close to comparable. And I am also telling you that Tony Stewart has a bad reputation anyways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 10, 2014 -> 09:38 AM) You don't think it is coincidental that his car accelerates at the same time we hear an engine throttle up, at the same time we see his car fishtail? From that video, I can't see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 QUOTE (farmteam @ Aug 10, 2014 -> 02:26 PM) Right now, this definitely seems like the best guess at what happened. EDIT: Even if that's true, recklessness is still a felony murder in most jurisdictions. It's not manslaughter. I feel like the recklessness bar will be pretty high considering the guy ran toward a racecar on a race track. Not like it's an open street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamshack Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 10, 2014 -> 07:50 AM) I feel like the recklessness bar will be pretty high considering the guy ran toward a racecar on a race track. Not like it's an open street. It's going to raise some very interesting questions regarding the applications of normal legal concepts against the setting of a sporting event/contest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Here's the thing, the "other cars slowed and avoided him" thing is misleading in that video. He is standing high on that track for most of the cars then sprints to the middle, at which the first car very nearly does hit him. So only two cars were in a similar situation and one hit him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 A) There is absolutely no way you can tell WHO was revving his engine. that video was taken at a distance. B) It was beyond STUPID to get out of a perfectly good car, walk into an ACTIVE track, and confront a driver who is actively racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Aug 10, 2014 -> 10:06 AM) A) There is absolutely no way you can tell WHO was revving his engine. that video was taken at a distance. B) It was beyond STUPID to get out of a perfectly good car, walk into an ACTIVE track, and confront a driver who is actively racing. His car wasn't exactly "perfectly good". Stewart just sent him into the wall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskyCaucasian Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 10, 2014 -> 10:09 AM) His car wasn't exactly "perfectly good". Stewart just sent him into the wall the general rule is you stay in your car until a safety team arrives. It wasnt on fire, or in immanent danger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Rules change suggested for NASCAR (and theoretically lower-tier circuits). Get out of your car on the track, throw a helmet/wrench/hammer in the pits or at another car, etc. 1) 3-5 race suspension 2) $250,000 fine That would seemingly end 95% of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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