Abbatacola and Rozner both criticize Ventura

[caulfield12]

Said they believed that more often than not, that he hurts the team with his decisions, rather than helps them...

 

That the two biggest issues with the future of the franchise were:

 

 

1) Ventura's future with the club

 

2) Defense

 

That this is now two years near the bottom of the American League in defense, and that a lot of the errors aren't just physical mistakes, many of them are mental. Indirectly blamed the coaching staff...questioning how this happened after 2012 when they were one of the best defensive teams for 4-5 months in the majors.

 

Going forward, we have ONLY two above-average defenders in Ramirez and Eaton (if he stops running into walls like Rowand, and remembers to stop trying to throw out every baserunner, like Viciedo also does)...and Alexei has lost a LITTLE bit of range this year, although he's been excellent overall.

 

Conor's below average at 3B. Beckham has lost a bit at 2B and will be replaced. Viciedo and Garcia won't be good on the corners. We all know about DeAza. Abreu's adequate right now, but I'm not going to go as far as Hawk and call him a really good fielder. Then you have Flowers, who's been pretty good, probably in the middle 1/3rd but certainly not Sal Perez back there, either.

 

 

Do we have ANYONE other than Rondon coming up who profiles as a future above average defender?

 

Carlos Sanchez, at 2B, maybe...Semien might also be the equivalent (eventually) of Beckham at 2B, but not SS.

 

Davidson, Micah Johnson and Anderson have all had their defense questioned this year. Hawkins, maybe he's a tick above average in LF, but nothing amazing, great or special defensively. He's not a MLB CFer, certainly.

 

Jordan Danks, but I don't want to go down that line of argument again. Sierra has a great arm, but is he going to give you enough offense to play everyday? Which hitter is he, the one in the mid 700's OPS-wise or the one who started the year in a horrible slump with the Blue Jays and whose reality is probably somewhere in-between statistically?

 

Ravelo had to be moved off 3rd to 1st.

 

 

 

How is it going to be possible to improve the offense and defense at the same time? Since Conor's one of our two or three bright spots this year, can we say his defense has been compensated enough by his offense...and what if he doesn't hit 315 again but he's at 255-275, then his lack of power becomes an issue again.

 

Viciedo gives the team power but hurts with his OBP and defense. Garcia isn't going to be anything more than average, unless he improves a ton...he does have the athleticism to be better. Flowers isn't a good enough defensive catcher than he can be at the very bottom of the league offensively (of course, his last 2-3 weeks shows he's not that bad at all as a hitter..but will he be able to sustain it?)

Edited August 10, 2014 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

Ventura signed an extension that begins next season. He will be the manager unless Rozner and his buddy have a new job that hasn't been announced yet. As for the defense, this has been pretty obvious for a while but everyone wants the Sox to trade Alexei so apparently it isn't so important.

 

I do think finding some more pitchers would help, as would finding a couple of more hitters. Hopefully, Garcia is one of those hitters.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Dick Allen

[bmags]

Thanks for the hot sports takes from Rozner and Abbattocola

[Buehrle>Wood]

Batting Leury Garcia leadoff should tell you all you need to know about Ventura.

[LDF]

 

I enjoyed reading this, but it brings up the same theme. How can anyone be blamed if the

team is rebuilding. there are many holes in a rebuild, pinpointing several will not help the rebuild

and seriously, what can be done if the personnel you have is doing their best. it all need to

be address when the sox are almost there, done with the rebuild.

[Kyyle23]

What does North think

[GreenSox]

How is it going to be possible to improve the offense and defense at the same time? Since Conor's one of our two or three bright spots this year, can we say his defense has been compensated enough by his offense...and what if he doesn't hit 315 again but he's at 255-275, then his lack of power becomes an issue again.

Gillaspie also appears to really be a platoon hitter. Perhaps a really good one, but platoon. That's why I want to try him in the OF; a little difficult to platoon 3B (that and his D is poor)

 

Batting Leury Garcia leadoff should tell you all you need to know about Ventura.

Yep.

[caulfield12]

Of course, those who defend Garcia and his hitting Beckham or Garcia up in the order (leaving nobody to get on base when Eaton's out for Abreu) is, who do you put there?

 

Alexei Ramirez? Well, he's more comfortable in that #5-6 RBI position.

 

Conor? He's not much of a threat on the basepaths, at all.

 

DeAza...well, maybe, but certainly not against LHP.

[caulfield12]

Ventura signed an extension that begins next season. He will be the manager unless Rozner and his buddy have a new job that hasn't been announced yet. As for the defense, this has been pretty obvious for a while but everyone wants the Sox to trade Alexei so apparently it isn't so important.

 

I do think finding some more pitchers would help, as would finding a couple of more hitters. Hopefully, Garcia is one of those hitters.

 

 

Just thought it was interesting because of the fact that the SCORE is the White Sox home radio station, and they were both openly critical of Ventura's managerial skills.

 

I'm aware Rozner's main job is a columnist/sportswriter, so he theoretically has a bit more freedom than a Score employee.

 

[Buehrle>Wood]

Of course, those who defend Garcia and his hitting Beckham or Garcia up in the order (leaving nobody to get on base when Eaton's out for Abreu) is, who do you put there?

 

Alexei Ramirez? Well, he's more comfortable in that #5-6 RBI position.

 

Conor? He's not much of a threat on the basepaths, at all.

 

DeAza...well, maybe, but certainly not against LHP.

Literally any other position player. It's not hard

[caulfield12]

Stone was also on Conor and DeAza quite a bit.

 

Said Conor wasn't really a run producer (lots of doubles!) and that he would need to be surrounded with much better talent to make up for his defense and lack of home run power.

 

"In order to change the defense, you have to change the players."

 

Also said hoping for improved offensive performance out of Beckham but getting the same old results "was as predictable as the sun rising in the east."

 

Also was crtical of Eaton for not being "selectively aggressive." Had a really funny line about being introduced to the warning track (or reintroduced) by the coaching staff, and how he needs to spend some time with Aaron Rowand to understand the later life consequences on not only his playing career but future health as a father/parent in his 30's and 40's. Guess Aaron's really having some physical problems, which shouldn't be a surprise.

 

Said that in his entire career in baseball, nobody on the DL or sitting on the bench because he couldn't play had ever helped his team in any meaningful way...in other words, he needs to improve his baseball IQ, and soon.

 

 

Back to thinking they really are going to have to seriously consider DHing Viciedo, moving Garcia to LF and finding a much better defensive RFer...it would be nice if that was Moises Sierra, but they really need a bigger offensive force than that to start competing with the Tigers, Royals and Indians.

 

[southsider2k5]

Hopefully Robin criticizes them for a being a 3rd rate show that didn't even happen until the first and second string talent started leaving the station.

[Soxfest]

Hopefully Robin criticizes them for a being a 3rd rate show that didn't even happen until the first and second string talent started leaving the station.

You go RV that would be kind of like hiring a manager with no experience.

[elrockinMT]

I can't see the criticism of some of these players. Gillaspie is like #7 overall in the league in average. I think he is a pretty good #2 hitter as he makes contact and can move runners along. Injuries have done quite a bit to mess up the perfect line up this year

[Balta1701]

Ventura signed an extension that begins next season. He will be the manager unless Rozner and his buddy have a new job that hasn't been announced yet. As for the defense, this has been pretty obvious for a while but everyone wants the Sox to trade Alexei so apparently it isn't so important.

 

I do think finding some more pitchers would help, as would finding a couple of more hitters. Hopefully, Garcia is one of those hitters.

It does strike me as interesting that although they announced "Ventura signs extension" as far as I could tell, none of the terms were ever released, maybe suggesting this was something of a deal that offers the team and the manager a little more flexibility in the event that either of them decides that they were done.

[greg775]

The defense is a huge problem moving forward. That and the bullpen. The future does not look bright right now as the team currently stands - current players and minor leaguers. Lot of work to be done by Hahn to get this team out of the division cellar.

[Steve9347]

What does North think

well maybe mike north knows

[Y2Jimmy0]

The defense is a huge problem moving forward. That and the bullpen. The future does not look bright right now as the team currently stands - current players and minor leaguers. Lot of work to be done by Hahn to get this team out of the division cellar.

 

 

The only guys that matter on this team are Sale, Quintana, Eaton, Abreu, Garcia, and some young bullpen guys. The core 5 have all been pretty good. The White Sox are bad because they have too many bad players. Those guys will not be around. The system is much improved and at the moment looks to be pretty well stocked with promising young starting pitching. This is also Chicago and the team has a ton of payroll flexibility to go along with another potential top 10 draft pick. I would argue that the future looks incredibly bright. The brightest it has looked in some time.

[BaconOnAStick]

Noesi, Alexei and Gillaspie all matter quite a bit. I would also say John Danks and his $14.5m salary matters (for different reasons).

 

Why is this entire board so blinded by youth and cost control? If a guys not in his first couple years in the league or signed to ludicrously undervalued contracts they just don't matter? Give me a break.

[Y2Jimmy0]

Noesi, Alexei and Gillaspie all matter quite a bit. I would also say John Danks and his $14.5m salary matters (for different reasons).

 

Why is this entire board so blinded by youth and cost control? If a guys not in his first couple years in the league or signed to ludicrously undervalued contracts they just don't matter? Give me a break.

 

 

Okay great thanks for clarifying. Noesi, Ramirez, and Gillaspie aren't part of the problem either. Go ahead and include them. I'm not sold that any of them are part of the core of the next great White Sox team though.

[Balta1701]

Okay great thanks for clarifying. Noesi, Ramirez, and Gillaspie aren't part of the problem either. Go ahead and include them. I'm not sold that any of them are part of the core of the next great White Sox team though.

Do you count a 4th starter or a solid contributor as part of the core? I mean, every great team will still have some solid role-players around the lineup.

[Quin]

The defense is a huge problem moving forward. That and the bullpen. The future does not look bright right now as the team currently stands - current players and minor leaguers. Lot of work to be done by Hahn to get this team out of the division cellar.

 

Alert everyone: Micah, Semien, Sanchez, Danish, Rodon, Montas, Ravelo, Martinez, Davidson, Anderson and Hawkins are all not things to look forward to.

[greg775]

The only guys that matter on this team are Sale, Quintana, Eaton, Abreu, Garcia, and some young bullpen guys. The core 5 have all been pretty good. The White Sox are bad because they have too many bad players. Those guys will not be around. The system is much improved and at the moment looks to be pretty well stocked with promising young starting pitching. This is also Chicago and the team has a ton of payroll flexibility to go along with another potential top 10 draft pick. I would argue that the future looks incredibly bright. The brightest it has looked in some time.

 

Jimmy, if what you say is true, this team is in trouble. Just five guys who matter? And one of em, Garcia, is still a question mark IMO.

I hope you are right about the future. I think the future right now, frankly, is not much better than before the start of this season.

Edited August 11, 2014 by greg775

[BaconOnAStick]

Okay great thanks for clarifying. Noesi, Ramirez, and Gillaspie aren't part of the problem either. Go ahead and include them. I'm not sold that any of them are part of the core of the next great White Sox team though.

First you said only a handful of guys matter, them immediately claimed the White Sox problem was too many bad players. Quite the contradiction. If that's the case, and I agree that it is (to a point, we do need a big lefty bat in the middle of the lineup), filling out the spots around the headliners is extremely important. The last thing we need is Brent Morel's and Alejandro DeAza's polluting the lineup with Danny Wright Rienzo getting starts.

[BaconOnAStick]

Jimmy, if what you say is true, this team is in trouble. Just five guys who matter? And one of em, Garcia, is still a question mark IMO.

I hope you are right about the future. I think the future right now, frankly, is not much better than before the start of this season.

Drafting Adams and Rodon plus the emergence of Montas and Danish is a dramatic improvement. Coming into the year we had a bit of a young pitching crisis. Not to mention Conor and Q making big steps.

 

This year pushed the clock forward on the rebuild thing.