Ferguson Riots

[StrangeSox]

I think it depends if you're going to keep punching or if you punch the cop and then run away.

 

Even if I intend to keep punching the cop, they can't just shoot me dead on the spot. They could use less-than-lethal weapons (tazers, mace) or otherwise physically restrain me. They could even go after me with a nightstick, depending on the details. But not every physical assault is life-threatening.

 

edit: that's just speaking hypothetically, not specifically to this situation.

Edited August 18, 2014 by StrangeSox

[StrangeSox]

If he doesn't have a non-lethal device like a taser, and if Brown is charging him, what other options does he have?

 

I'm not sure. I wonder if the Ferguson PD has any training and certification requirements on hand-to-hand unarmed combat.

[southsideirish71]

I'm not sure. I wonder if the Ferguson PD has any training and certification requirements on hand-to-hand unarmed combat.

 

He is 6'3 300 pounds. What kind of ninja skills do you think they teach at the academy to combat sheer size and strength.

[Jenksismyhero]

Even if I intend to keep punching the cop, they can't just shoot me dead on the spot. They could use less-than-lethal weapons (tazers, mace) or otherwise physically restrain me. They could even go after me with a nightstick, depending on the details. But not every physical assault is life-threatening.

 

There's no chance in hell i'd convict a cop for shooting a guy that's punching him in the face repeatedly, even if he had tazers or a mace on his belt. I'm not going to question that guys belief that he's about to die and needs to defend himself to the death. In that situation, if you're stupid enough to assault a cop like that, you deserve to be shot.

 

Now if you're talking about a situation where there are like 3 cops and one assailant and the assailant happens to get a few punches in, I might be willing to say that deadly force isn't warranted. But it would depend on the circumstances and how strongly the officer thought his life was in danger.

[CrimsonWeltall]

I'm not sure. I wonder if the Ferguson PD has any training and certification requirements on hand-to-hand unarmed combat.

 

Based on photos of the two individuals, I wouldn't handicap a fight between the two in favor of Wilson even if he had a police baton.

[StrangeSox]

There's no chance in hell i'd convict a cop for shooting a guy that's punching him in the face repeatedly, even if he had tazers or a mace on his belt. I'm not going to question that guys belief that he's about to die and needs to defend himself to the death. In that situation, if you're stupid enough to assault a cop like that, you deserve to be shot.

To me, this reads like you'd give carte blanche for deadly force any time there's a physical altercation.

[caulfield12]

also fwiw, a customer at the convenience store called the police, but the owners and the employees didn't. Maybe didn't think it was worth the hassle to report a $20 (or however much some gas stations cigars would be) theft.

 

$49 supposedly

[Jenksismyhero]

To me, this reads like you'd give carte blanche for deadly force any time there's a physical altercation.

 

It depends on the severity of the altercation, but yeah, i'm much more willing to allow cops to defend themselves than to expect them to show some unnatural restraint in the name of protecting some moronic criminal. I mean what kind of person is going to punch a cop repeatedly to the point that a cop would fear for his/her life?

[RockRaines]

also fwiw, a customer at the convenience store called the police, but the owners and the employees didn't. Maybe didn't think it was worth the hassle to report a $20 (or however much some gas stations cigars would be) theft.

Is there a link for that info? Sorry for being skeptical but you posted pages of posts on how he got shot in the back.

[RockRaines]

There's no chance in hell i'd convict a cop for shooting a guy that's punching him in the face repeatedly, even if he had tazers or a mace on his belt. I'm not going to question that guys belief that he's about to die and needs to defend himself to the death. In that situation, if you're stupid enough to assault a cop like that, you deserve to be shot.

 

Now if you're talking about a situation where there are like 3 cops and one assailant and the assailant happens to get a few punches in, I might be willing to say that deadly force isn't warranted. But it would depend on the circumstances and how strongly the officer thought his life was in danger.

Have you seen the video of that cop getting his face smashed in the traffic stop? That's the type of stuff they want to avoid I bet

[StrangeSox]

Is there a link for that info? Sorry for being skeptical but you posted pages of posts on how he got shot in the back.

Yes, the store's lawyer made the statement.

 

http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/...brown/14138121/

 

As far as getting shot in the back, several eyewitnesses have said that the officer shot at Brown as he ran away. The first autopsy doesn't support him being shot from behind, but it is still possible that he was shot at from behind.

[StrangeSox]

It depends on the severity of the altercation, but yeah, i'm much more willing to allow cops to defend themselves than to expect them to show some unnatural restraint in the name of protecting some moronic criminal. I mean what kind of person is going to punch a cop repeatedly to the point that a cop would fear for his/her life?

well in that hypothetical, that's exactly what's at question. Police can't immediately go to deadly force if they're assaulted. If the guy is resisting arrest and hits you a couple of times, that doesn't (necessarily, usually) justify deadly force.

[southsideirish71]

well in that hypothetical, that's exactly what's at question. Police can't immediately go to deadly force if they're assaulted. If the guy is resisting arrest and hits you a couple of times, that doesn't (necessarily, usually) justify deadly force.

 

At what point does it. When you are about to lose consciousness. A 6'3 300 pound man punches you in the face is not the same as a 5'8 175 pound guy doing the same thing. This isn't Mike Tyson's punch out.

[greg775]

Molotov cocktails? Has anyone seen stats on how many arrests have been to out of town people?

I don't believe anything I read anymore for sure, but I saw that of the 7 arrests on Fri or Sat night, all 7 were from people who did not live in Ferguson. Have no way of knowing if that was true, but it was reported.

 

Going back to this....this is why you don't f*** with cops. This is why you follow their instructions. At the end of the day, they will almost always have the "justified" argument on their side, whether it's right or wrong. I know that sucks for people who think the police are out to get them, and for people who are actual victims of police abuse, but you gotta win that battle in the civil courts, not by fighting the cops in the streets.

 

I'm guessing the shoulder cameras are too costly at this point. And I wonder if the various municipalities will even want them when they become more affordable. Yes, it might save them from a lawsuit like this one, but how many more is it going to start?

That's a pretty good point in your opening paragraph. When I get stopped I turn off all attitude and it's yes, no. I answer their questions.

 

Rush Limbaugh is insensitive by the way. He's calling Mike Brown the "gentle giant," over and over mockingly. Call him by his name, Rush. Whether or not Brown was in the wrong, he was unarmed and he's dead. There are a lot of sides to this story and calling him gentle giant I think is insensitive.

 

Rush also is upset that the community looted its own stores. This is a complicated issue. There are some thugs from St. Louis coming into town taking advantage of the situation. How the hell does Rush Limbaugh know who is looting?

 

Finally, I think officer Ron Johnson is in a no win situation. He brings donuts to the protestors today and I saw somebody on Twitter blast him. "You think bringing donuts can stop us?" Some are calling him "Uncle Tom" on Twitter. I'm amazed that depending on the time of day he's either Mother Teresa or a bum. During the day, giving speeches and briefings, he's going to be our next President, according to people. During the evening, he's the devil and nothing he says can be believed, etc.

Tough gig.

Edited August 18, 2014 by greg775

[cabiness42]

well in that hypothetical, that's exactly what's at question. Police can't immediately go to deadly force if they're assaulted. If the guy is resisting arrest and hits you a couple of times, that doesn't (necessarily, usually) justify deadly force.

 

I can't speak for a cop or what their rules should be, but I can tell you what my rules are: somebody breaks into my house, they are getting a gun pointed at them. If their next move isn't towards the exit, they are getting shot. I'm not waiting to assess whether or not they may be hiding a weapon or what chance I have of taking them in a fistfight.

[Jenksismyhero]

well in that hypothetical, that's exactly what's at question. Police can't immediately go to deadly force if they're assaulted. If the guy is resisting arrest and hits you a couple of times, that doesn't (necessarily, usually) justify deadly force.

 

Again, it all depends on the circumstances. If you're alone and the guy is 6'3", 300 lbs? One punch might be enough if he knocks you on the ground and hovers over you.

[Balta1701]

I can't speak for a cop or what their rules should be, but I can tell you what my rules are: somebody breaks into my house, they are getting a gun pointed at them. If their next move isn't towards the exit, they are getting shot. I'm not waiting to assess whether or not they may be hiding a weapon or what chance I have of taking them in a fistfight.

And you better hope it's not a member of your family.

[Kyyle23]

I don't believe anything I read anymore for sure, but I saw that of the 7 arrests on Fri or Sat night, all 7 were from people who did not live in Ferguson. Have no way of knowing if that was true, but it was reported.

 

 

That's a pretty good point in your opening paragraph. When I get stopped I turn off all attitude and it's yes, no. I answer their questions.

 

Rush Limbaugh is insensitive by the way. He's calling Mike Brown the "gentle giant," over and over mockingly. Call him by his name, Rush. Whether or not Brown was in the wrong, he was unarmed and he's dead. There are a lot of sides to this story and calling him gentle giant I think is insensitive.

 

Rush also is upset that the community looted its own stores. This is a complicated issue. There are some thugs from St. Louis coming into town taking advantage of the situation. How the hell does Rush Limbaugh know who is looting?

 

Finally, I think officer Ron Johnson is in a no win situation. He brings donuts to the protestors today and I saw somebody on Twitter blast him. "You think bringing donuts can stop us?" Some are calling him "Uncle Tom" on Twitter. I'm amazed that depending on the time of day he's either Mother Teresa or a bum. During the day, giving speeches and briefings, he's going to be our next President, according to people. During the evening, he's the devil and nothing he says can be believed, etc.

Tough gig.

 

Is this your first day listening to Rush?

[cabiness42]

And you better hope it's not a member of your family.

 

Members of my family don't break into my house.

[caulfield12]

And yet an unarmed NFL football player has never been shot down in the street by a police officer, have they?

 

There have certainly been enough police/athlete confrontations over the years at traffic stops.

[caulfield12]

And you better hope it's not a member of your family.

 

 

Or your teenager daughter sneaking in at night after curfew, or vice-versa.

[EvilMonkey]

Or your teenager daughter sneaking in at night after curfew, or vice-versa.

Well my teen SON knows I have a gun and will shoot to defend myself and them, so when I say "I am armed and will shoot you", he would know from simple self preservation to say "dad, it's me!", or something similar.

[southsideirish71]

And yet an unarmed NFL football player has never been shot down in the street by a police officer, have they?

 

There have certainly been enough police/athlete confrontations over the years at traffic stops.

 

How many of them were robbing a convenience store right before their confrontation. How many of them got physical with a cop on his own.

 

 

[greg775]

I can't speak for a cop or what their rules should be, but I can tell you what my rules are: somebody breaks into my house, they are getting a gun pointed at them. If their next move isn't towards the exit, they are getting shot. I'm not waiting to assess whether or not they may be hiding a weapon or what chance I have of taking them in a fistfight.

Would you at least yell out, "Identify yourself or you are going down?" To see if for some reason your drunken uncle didn't come over unexpectedly? I like your attitude though. No thugs should be in your house. I don't blame u for shooting 'em.

 

Is this your first day listening to Rush?

I try not to listen to him, but I was curious about his take. Why mock the guy who died? "Gentle giant" is bulls***. Let the guy rest in peace.

I don't know if anybody can prove it, but if the cop did fire a last bullet to finish off Mike Brown, that cop needs a one-way ticket to prison for the next 75 years.

Edited August 18, 2014 by greg775

[Jenksismyhero]

He had pot in his body! Gang-banger thug. Case closed.

 

 

Sigh.