Ferguson Riots

[bmags]

K, same page.

[Milkman delivers]

Was the cops story via his friend inconsistent with previous police statements? (Yes)

 

Fair enough, but there's a big difference there. The friend is relating a story someone else told, like the old telephone line game. Pieces of that story can change over time. The witnesses are relating what they saw themselves. And if they said he was shot in the back (which you'll counter by saying they said he was only shot "at" with his back turned) and forensics show he wasn't, then their whole account is now in question.

[Milkman delivers]

What part of the story was inconsistent with the earlier statements, though? That he was aware of the robbery?

[RockRaines]

Are these the same witnesses that had Mike getting shot in the back as well.

Probably. Turns out there were other witnesses there that tell the other side as well. None of is it is going to matter since the "jump to conclusions" public has already sentenced the cop and will stop at nothing until he's in jail. Even due process is being messed up because people watching at home just NEED to know things like medical reports.

[StrangeSox]

What part of the story was inconsistent with the earlier statements, though? That he was aware of the robbery?

Yes.

[bmags]

We did our research: In 129 years since police and fire commissions were created in the state of Wisconsin, we could not find a single ruling by a police department, an inquest or a police commission that a shooting was unjustified.

 

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/201...l#ixzz3AnE4G6vi

[StrangeSox]

Here is video of the aftermath from one of the initial witnesses.

http://www.ibtimes.com/new-video-mike-brow...led-him-1661840

[Milkman delivers]

Yes.

 

Gotcha. I referred to that earlier in the thread, so no need to reopen that door.

[RockRaines]

We did our research: In 129 years since police and fire commissions were created in the state of Wisconsin, we could not find a single ruling by a police department, an inquest or a police commission that a shooting was unjustified.

 

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/201...l#ixzz3AnE4G6vi

And there will be riots.

[Milkman delivers]

Here is video of the aftermath from one of the initial witnesses.

http://www.ibtimes.com/new-video-mike-brow...led-him-1661840

 

That doesn't really add anything either way.

[StrangeSox]

For reference, here's a recap of what another witness said she saw, which matches that other witness I posted.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5677003

 

What I can't find on my phone right now is a good summary of the various witnesses and what they said all one place.

[Milkman delivers]

I know there are statements from witnesses that support both sides and this also won't be received well, but many times witnesses have no idea what their rights are or what actions justify certain responses. When witnesses say "they murdered him", it certainly sounds like it's basically an execution. But, their statements are often shown to be outright lies or simply very misinformed upon more questioning. In this situation, a person may watch Brown charge an officer. Brown has no weapon on him, and the officer opens fire. Many people watching this may believe that this is an unjustified shooting. Some will think or reason that "he was only running at him, he didn't even have a weapon, the cop murdered him without cause". And there's definitely something to that, but it can still be completely justifiable. Many of the statements are their interpretation of what happened, not what actually happened.

[Texsox]

So what do we do as a country when a segment of the society, for probably some valid reasons . . .

 

• Does not trust the police
• Decides that they will no longer abide by the laws of the US
• Destroys innocent people's property
• Steals
• Commits assault

 

Say well they are justified and leave them alone?

Enforce the law with increasing force?

 

 

 

 

[pettie4sox]

When people say they want justice for Mike Brown, do they just want the officer(s) prosecuted for murder?

 

 

[greg775]

BMags had a great line in this thread when he said:

"But how good of a cop could you be if a jaywalking arrest turns into a dead kid? Surely there was some slip up along the way even if the kid was aggressively behaving."

 

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

My comment after watching live feeds tonight. The cops told the crowd to disperse again "or you will be arrested" after midnight and four guys knelt down refusing to move. Now what in the hell are they accomplishing by getting arrested?? Protests are fine, but go home and resume in the morning at the organized marches. They looked pretty young. If I were their parents I'd freak out and wouldn't bail them out. I mean what are the 4 accomplishing? There's no media in the cop station to interview them. The interviews are all old news now anyway....

Q: Why did you get arrested?

A: "I want justice for Mike Brown."

Obviously those 4 youngsters don't care that will be on their record that they got arrested for disturbing the peace or something.

Very sad. It's like the kids were saying, "f*** you national guard. We are not leaving. Just arrest us."

If I'm the national guard I say, "Fine. Cmon with us. Your jail accomodations will be waiting."

[caulfield12]

BMags had a great line in this thread when he said:

"But how good of a cop could you be if a jaywalking arrest turns into a dead kid? Surely there was some slip up along the way even if the kid was aggressively behaving."

 

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

My comment after watching live feeds tonight. The cops told the crowd to disperse again "or you will be arrested" after midnight and four guys knelt down refusing to move. Now what in the hell are they accomplishing by getting arrested?? Protests are fine, but go home and resume in the morning at the organized marches. They looked pretty young. If I were their parents I'd freak out and wouldn't bail them out. I mean what are the 4 accomplishing? There's no media in the cop station to interview them. The interviews are all old news now anyway....

Q: Why did you get arrested?

A: "I want justice for Mike Brown."

Obviously those 4 youngsters don't care that will be on their record that they got arrested for disturbing the peace or something.

Very sad. It's like the kids were saying, "f*** you national guard. We are not leaving. Just arrest us."

If I'm the national guard I say, "Fine. Cmon with us. Your jail accomodations will be waiting."

 

That's accomplishing more than looting, stealing alcohol, shooting at the police or throwing Molotov cocktails.

 

[greg775]

That's accomplishing more than looting, stealing alcohol, shooting at the police or throwing Molotov cocktails.

 

Very true. But why would a 20 year old kid want to be arrested?? It accomplishes nothing unless they are starving and want some jail food. I mean it makes no sense. They can protest all they want in the day as long as they keep moving. They were warned. Keep moving.

 

Good luck to them trying to get a job in the real world with a conviction on their resume. That might even be a felony, right?

Edited August 19, 2014 by greg775

[Milkman delivers]

BMags had a great line in this thread when he said:

"But how good of a cop could you be if a jaywalking arrest turns into a dead kid? Surely there was some slip up along the way even if the kid was aggressively behaving."

 

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

Greg, I don't normally even bother to argue with you as you're like arguing with a brick wall, but I have to tell you you're wrong. It's like saying "how good of a driver could ____ be?" after they get hit by another driver. You can be amazing at something, but you can't account entirely for other people.

[greg775]

Greg, I don't normally even bother to argue with you as you're like arguing with a brick wall, but I have to tell you you're wrong. It's like saying "how good of a driver could ____ be?" after they get hit by another driver. You can be amazing at something, but you can't account entirely for other people.

 

That's true, but like he pointed out, there had to be a mistake made if an unarmed guy is shot that many times. Now if the kid tried to get the cop's gun, the cop knows he's unarmed. I guess if the kid went for the gun, he deserves to be shot and possibly die.

But if he shot him should he blast him five more times?

And why would they let the body just rot in the street after the kid was killed? I think mistakes were made in any scenario.

 

And this is assuming the kid tried to get the cop's gun? If this is a fact not an opinion, then the kid deserved to die, I guess. Will this ever be proven to be the real scenario?

Edited August 19, 2014 by greg775

[RockRaines]

Very true. But why would a 20 year old kid want to be arrested?? It accomplishes nothing unless they are starving and want some jail food. I mean it makes no sense. They can protest all they want in the day as long as they keep moving. They were warned. Keep moving.

 

Good luck to them trying to get a job in the real world with a conviction on their resume. That might even be a felony, right?

It's cute you think those kids are thinking rationally enough to care about their job future.

[GoodAsGould]

Aren't cops trained only to shoot to kill, the rationale being the only time you need your gun is if in imminent danger and shooting to wound isn't safe.

[Balta1701]

Aren't cops trained only to shoot to kill, the rationale being the only time you need your gun is if in imminent danger and shooting to wound isn't safe.

Effectively there should be an assumption that there is no such thing as shooting to wound. The circumstances when you can be that accurate of a shot means that you have the time to pause and aim safely, in which case you shouldn't be shooting.

[Brian]

Do cops not carry tasers anymore either?

[Balta1701]

Do cops not carry tasers anymore either?

This one did not, and those should be viewed as much more lethal than is generally assumed anyway.

[witesoxfan]

Do cops not carry tasers anymore either?

 

 

And let me talk about the taser for a minute. Obviously it's a non-issue in this case, as he didn't have one. But tasers are not this magical instrument people seem to think they are. Both prongs have to make a connection for it to even work. Clothing often causes a disconnect. And at a distance, there is even more separation between the two prongs. At 35 feet, which is longer than a ton of tasers, if one prong connects, the other is more than likely hitting the cement or going through or to the side of the legs. Hitting a moving target with a taser is also incredibly difficult.

 

And the "mace", while painful, is routinely powered through by angry people.