Ferguson Riots

[Balta1701]

21 feet seems a little far to be in "imminent" danger though. These guys also have their guns out and basically shoot immediately.

Wait, so you're actually questioning if that one was excessive?

[EvilMonkey]

21 feet seems a little far to be in "imminent" danger though. These guys also have their guns out and basically shoot immediately.

http://www.bladefighting.com/21footrule.htm

 

 

21 Foot Rule - The 21 foot rule states that the average person with a knife or sword can get to and cut a person in about the same time that the average person can draw and fire a handgun.

 

In the time it takes the average officer to recognize a threat, draw his sidearm and fire 2 rounds at center mass, an average subject charging at the officer with a knife or other cutting or stabbing weapon can cover a distance of 21 feet.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Alpha Dog

[Kyyle23]

That guy seemed to have a "die by police" suicide planned out. He stole that stuff, set it out for everyone to see, waited for the police to show, immediately drew his knife and walked towards them saying "kill me". Unless they showed up with rubber bullets ready or taser ready, That guy was gonna die

[Jenksismyhero]

Wait, so you're actually questioning if that one was excessive?

 

I'm not saying they weren't justified, but this one is more arguable given that they SEEM to have shot a little too quickly when other options may have been available to them. He's holding a weapon that's not long range, they're both behind their doors, he's 10-15 feet away (can't really tell) and he's walking slowly towards them.

 

Certainly I'd argue the Brown shooting, if what the officer says is true, is more justifiable at the time the shots were fired. Had the knife guy walked another few feet there's no question. But at the time they shot? I dunno, seems a bit soon.

 

And obviously we're talking mere seconds here. It's tough to criticize them for split second decisions.

[Jenksismyhero]

http://www.bladefighting.com/21footrule.htm

 

Yeah but their guns were drawn and aimed at him before he even started walking towards them. So negate that time. AND they were behind their doors. Again, not saying they weren't justified, but this one is almost more iffy to me than Brown.

[Balta1701]

I'm not saying they weren't justified, but this one is more arguable given that they SEEM to have shot a little too quickly when other options may have been available to them. He's holding a weapon that's not long range, they're both behind their doors, he's 10-15 feet away (can't really tell) and he's walking slowly towards them.

 

Certainly I'd argue the Brown shooting, if what the officer says is true, is more justifiable at the time the shots were fired. Had the knife guy walked another few feet there's no question. But at the time they shot? I dunno, seems a bit soon.

 

And obviously we're talking mere seconds here. It's tough to criticize them for split second decisions.

I just know very little about the 2nd shooting beyond it seemingly being a police suicide, so I found it interesting to see you openly question it.

[caulfield12]

Because they had other alternatives available to them.

 

Because the person involved was clearly mentally imbalanced. They could have waited in the car to get some back-up, used tasers....something besides just shooting the kid down before they had more time to assess the situation and the risks involved from the person with the knife.

 

I just find it hard to believe that wasn't the ONLY way for this situation to have ended. Couldn't they at least TRIED to talk to him in order to find out what was wrong or what was bothering him?

 

You'd like to think if this was your son or daughter the police would exhaust a more thorough set of alternatives before just blasting away so many times. If he was holding a gun or an imminent threat to others, I'd find it perfectly understandable, but in this situation, it's arguable either way.

Edited August 21, 2014 by caulfield12

[LittleHurt05]

They said it was 4 feet, it looks further.

 

However a taser would have worked as well.

 

From what I have read, I don't think tasers are always successful. They have to connect perfectly or they won't work, then you are left without a weapon in a knife fight.

[Jenksismyhero]

From what I have read, I don't think tasers are always successful. They have to connect perfectly or they won't work, then you are left without a weapon in a knife fight.

 

And supposedly even when they stick properly a certain % of people aren't affected by them.

[Balta1701]

And supposedly even when they stick properly a certain % of people aren't affected by them.

And a certain %age of people wind up dead.

[Milkman delivers]

Putting him in handcuffs after he's clearly not able to fight back or resist....probably dead, that's not going to go over well.

 

Normal procedure for every police force in America. Again Caulfield, you are incredibly ignorant to this whole subject.

 

And to whomever brought up the taser, please read my post from a few pages ago.

 

Alpha Dog covered the distance thing already.

[Milkman delivers]

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[StrangeSox]

In Ferguson, Cops Hand Out 3 Warrants Per Household Every Year

 

A local public defender on the deeply dysfunctional Ferguson court system

 

In Ferguson, court fees and fines are the second largest source of funds for the city; $2.6 million was collected in 2013 alone. That's become a key source of tension. There is a perception in the area, Harvey says, that the black population is targeted to pay those fines. Eighty-six percent of the traffic stops, for example, happen to black residents — even though the city is 67 percent black.

[bmags]

When I was in school in 2008 I remember a man dying in a court room after being tasered. Funny how 6 years later we are pining for tasers to be used more.

[StrangeSox]

When I was in school in 2008 I remember a man dying in a court room after being tasered. Funny how 6 years later we are pining for tasers to be used more.

Yes, I'm a little surprised to see that as well. For years I've read stories of the overuse/abuse of tasers and other less-than-lethal (but not always) methods.

[Milkman delivers]

An officer is being approached with a deadly weapon. As soon as a weapon is in someone's hand, the guns come out, no matter the distance. That gap can close incredibly fast. He approaches, and you want the officers to get in their cars, effectively running away from an armed threat? That is laughable.

 

And tasers are not considered deadly force. A f***ing knife certainly is. An officer COULD respond to deadly force with something else, but he'd probably be an idiot to do so.

 

I just can't believe this f***ing buffoon.

Edited August 21, 2014 by Milkman delivers

[Milkman delivers]

In Ferguson, Cops Hand Out 3 Warrants Per Household Every Year

 

A local public defender on the deeply dysfunctional Ferguson court system

 

Warrants are issued by courts. And any individual can get a warrant for someone else's arrest by merely getting a police report and going to the court.

[Balta1701]

Yes, I'm a little surprised to see that as well. For years I've read stories of the overuse/abuse of tasers and other less-than-lethal (but not always) methods.

The difference with tasers is that they should be treated as "less lethal weapons". If you're in a situation where you can substitute it for a lethal shot with relative ease, it makes sense. If you're in a situation where say, you have an unruly person in a library or a person refusing to get off the sidewalk...unless you would have shot that person for not listening to your instructions then you're using the taser not as a defensive weapon/substitute but instead as a method of inflicting pain until a person listens to you.

 

Simple rule; if you'd have shot the person otherwise, a taser is a great option to consider if possible. If you would not, then you're putting that person's life in danger with the weapon.

[caulfield12]

There's no point in even trying to discuss things if posters are allowed to act exactly like the police do in these situations...

 

I would just LOVE to see all these examples of African-American officers shooting down white kids in the streets all over America.

 

PLEASE, it has to have happened at least ONCE.

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

There's no point in even trying to discuss things if posters are allowed to act exactly like the police do in these situations...

 

I would just LOVE to see all these examples of African-American officers shooting down white kids in the streets all over America.

 

PLEASE, it has to have happened at least ONCE.

 

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=black+cop+shoots+white+kid

[caulfield12]

This post has been edited by the Soxtalk staff to remove objectionable material. Soxtalk encourages a free discussion between its members, but does not allow personal attacks, threats, graphic sexual material, nudity, or any other materials judged offensive by the Administrators and Moderators. Thank you.

 

God forbid that there ever be a reasonable response in any situation besides taking someone's life.

[RockRaines]

There's no point in even trying to discuss things if posters are allowed to act exactly like the police do in these situations...

 

I would just LOVE to see all these examples of African-American officers shooting down white kids in the streets all over America.

 

PLEASE, it has to have happened at least ONCE.

LOLOLOLOLOL

[caulfield12]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=black+cop+shoots+white+kid

 

 

If it was that easy to find, I'm sure all these instances would be out there to support the Wilson/Brown case that it has nothing at all to do with race, it's just a complete coincidence.

 

It's surely a coincidence as well that a black person killing a white person is 12X more likely to receive the death penalty than a white person killing a black person, even if there are multiple victims.

Edited August 21, 2014 by caulfield12

[cabiness42]

If it was that easy to find, I'm sure all these instances would be out there to support the Wilson/Brown case that it has nothing at all to do with race, it's just a complete coincidence.

 

It's sure a coincidence as well that a black person killing a white person is 12X more likely to receive the death penalty than a white person killing a black person, even if there are multiple victims.

 

Is it not possible that the Ferguson police department has a history of poor race relations yet in this specific case Wilson was justified in shooting Brown? The former being true does not prevent the latter from being true.

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

If it was that easy to find, I'm sure all these instances would be out there to support the Wilson/Brown case that it has nothing at all to do with race, it's just a complete coincidence.

 

It's surely a coincidence as well that a black person killing a white person is 12X more likely to receive the death penalty than a white person killing a black person, even if there are multiple victims.

 

So wait, let's go back. You really think this officer shot Brown because he was black? That's the only reason?