Ferguson Riots

[Jenksismyhero]

It's hard to imagine a worse way to handle the event if they were looking to minimize unrest, but I'm willing to assume incompetence over malice.

 

What would you have done differently?

[RockRaines]

I mean if we're trying to be accurate here, it is literally not animal-like behavior at all. Animals don't riot, don't start fires, don't destroy s*** like people do. In the area of "terrible, horrible things to do" humans have a pretty strong hold.

 

 

 

Absolutely. Riots are usually a complex phenomenon, and the ones in Ferguson appear to be pent up anger and frustration over powerlessness and a perception of strong bias against their community. While theycan have a constructive outcome, usually that's not the case and it's just used as more 'evidence' that 'those people' are just hopeless. Again, speaking generally here and not about a particular poster or even SoxTalk.

Animal like behavior is referring to not having the high level cognitive ability to know the difference between right and wrong and to have empathy for your fellow man. It's not taken literally as you are applying it.

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

If they had to, then, call off school on Tuesday in advance of a 9 a.m. decision.

 

They did, I think. The schools in that district already had Wednesday-Friday off for Thanksgiving, and Tuesday was added shortly after it was announced that the Grand Jury decision would be revealed later that evening.

[bmags]

I don't give a f*** about riots anymore. All these days leading up, and gun sales skyrocketing of the local rich white populace thinking they were going to get dragged out of their homes and beaten, and basically some 7-11s get torched by a crowd and "SEE! ANIMALS!".

 

And are we really complaining about the f***ing haymarket riots? Jesus Christ.

 

I hope you people watch the hunger games and go "why! WHY WOULD YOU TURN TO VIOLENCE"

[Jenksismyhero]

There is no forensic evidence that conflicts with multiple witness testimony that Brown was surrendering when Wilson began firing again.

 

The witnesses who changed their story and/or admitted they actually didn't witness Brown surrendering, they were just passing along what they overheard. Oh, and the other witnesses who disagree that he was surrendering and that he was actually heading towards Wilson.

 

And they were black witnesses, so, no racist intent!

[Balta1701]

I love how you guys can even pretend to know what it's like to have your life in danger to the point that you have to shoot someone.

I love how this is an argument against a jury trial system existing at all.

[caulfield12]

I'm trying to think of another situation where humans are termed as "animals."

 

Maybe a prison break or prison riot?

 

But I'd swear 90-95% of the time it's not directed at white communities in terms of in terms of typifying a pattern of behavior.

 

For example, when those Todd Marinovich-esque parents start a fight with other parents or umpires/referees/coaches in youth or Little League sports, they're called "hotheads" or "maniacs" or "psychos" but not animals.

[RockRaines]

I don't give a f*** about riots anymore. All these days leading up, and gun sales skyrocketing of the local rich white populace thinking they were going to get dragged out of their homes and beaten, and basically some 7-11s get torched by a crowd and "SEE! ANIMALS!".

 

And are we really complaining about the f***ing haymarket riots? Jesus Christ.

 

I hope you people watch the hunger games and go "why! WHY WOULD YOU TURN TO VIOLENCE"

I can take you to the martyrs graves in forest park for the haymarket rioters that were killed.

[RockRaines]

I'm trying to think of another situation where humans are termed as "animals."

 

Maybe a prison break or prison riot?

 

But I'd swear 90-95% of the time it's not directed at white communities in terms of in terms of typifying a pattern of behavior.

 

For example, when those Todd Marinovich-esque parents start a fight with other parents or umpires/referees/coaches in youth or Little League sports, they're called "hotheads" or "maniacs" or "psychos" but not animals.

Go to a school. "Those kids are acting like animals" is probably a daily occurrence.

[Jenksismyhero]

I love how this is an argument against a jury trial system existing at all.

 

No, it's me thinking you guys are so full of your white guilt/police hate/gun hate that you can't believe a guy when he describes the fear he saw that day. Like it's not even remotely believable. As if you've been in a similar situation before.

 

[caulfield12]

I love how this is an argument against a jury trial system existing at all.

 

 

You're automatically for the animalistic rioters if you've never had the opportunity in your lifetime to draw a gun on someone...apparently.

 

It's kind of like being against Guantanomo Bay and Abu Gharib...and expressing that honestly-held belief that it's not the correct action for a country of laws to set the precedent of water boarding/rendition...which therefore makes you a "terrorist sympathizer" and unappreciative of soldiers/policemen/firefighters, etc.

Edited November 25, 2014 by caulfield12

[StrangeSox]

What would you have done differently?

 

Well, don't spend months showing everyone just how much of a sham the GJ was going to be for one. Then, don't leak information to the business community to start an arms build-up ahead of the decision, further tainting the process and undermining your own credibility. Then, don't preemptively say you're going to heavily militarize the whole situation by calling out the national guard. After that, probably not a good idea to announce that the GJ has reached a decision but hold off on announcing it for hours, letting everything come to a boil. And last but not least, don't hold a sanctimonious press conference announcing the no-bill in which you indict everyone but Wilson and whine relentlessly about the media.

[bmags]

I can take you to the martyrs graves in forest park for the haymarket rioters that were killed.

 

I don't understand what your stance is on the haymarket riots. It seems like a pretty textbook example of a subverted protest.

[chw42]

Wilson's testimony available here

 

 

"he only gets stronger with every bullet!!!" are you f***ing kidding me

 

I don't know how that makes any sense.

 

Either he was on bath salts or Wilson is straight up lying. That's not normal human behavior in any way.

[StrangeSox]

The witnesses who changed their story and/or admitted they actually didn't witness Brown surrendering, they were just passing along what they overheard. Oh, and the other witnesses who disagree that he was surrendering and that he was actually heading towards Wilson.

 

And they were black witnesses, so, no racist intent!

Citation needed.

[NorthSideSox72]

I love how this is an argument against a jury trial system existing at all.

I personally hate the jury trial system and wish it would go away. But I also don't think this case really shows any reason to keep or get rid of it.

 

One thing that upsets me here, as I read about it, is the way the prosecutor handled the GJ. The fact that it was done so dramatically differently (basically turning it into a trial), and then delivering a bizarre, nearly impossible to understand final instruction set to the jury that made it sounds like they needed to find absolute proof to indict... that is a major failure here.

 

I don't pretend to know what happened on that street, but I am pretty darn sure of these things:

 

1. There is some awful silliness in this thread on both sides

2. The prosecutor's office who handled the GJ was incompetent

3. NONE of us actually know what happened on that street

 

[Balta1701]

No, it's me thinking you guys are so full of your white guilt/police hate/gun hate that you can't believe a guy when he describes the fear he saw that day. Like it's not even remotely believable. As if you've been in a similar situation before.

You specifically responded to me saying that this should have been heard in a jury trial presented as an actual case with the point "oh you can't have understood that fear".

 

No one on a jury is going to have understood that either. No one on the grand jury would have either. Why should we trust their opinions based on what you just said?

[StrangeSox]

No, it's me thinking you guys are so full of your white guilt/police hate/gun hate that you can't believe a guy when he describes the fear he saw that day. Like it's not even remotely believable. As if you've been in a similar situation before.

It is not remotely believable that Brown kept charging at Wilson, only getting stronger with each bullet that hit him.

[Balta1701]

I personally hate the jury trial system and wish it would go away. But I also don't think this case really shows any reason to keep or get rid of it.

 

One thing that upsets me here, as I read about it, is the way the prosecutor handled the GJ. The fact that it was done so dramatically differently (basically turning it into a trial), and then delivering a bizarre, nearly impossible to understand final instruction set to the jury that made it sounds like they needed to find absolute proof to indict... that is a major failure here.

 

I don't pretend to know what happened on that street, but I am pretty darn sure of these things:

 

1. There is some awful silliness in this thread on both sides

2. The prosecutor's office who handled the GJ was incompetent

3. NONE of us actually know what happened on that street

I totally disagree with this. I think he got exactly the result he wanted, which was not having to make a public case against a local police officer, and he handled the case in a way to make that happen. No incompetence at all, did it exactly the way he wanted to get that result.

[bmags]

No, it's me thinking you guys are so full of your white guilt/police hate/gun hate that you can't believe a guy when he describes the fear he saw that day. Like it's not even remotely believable. As if you've been in a similar situation before.

 

Oh I believe the white police officer was very scared of the unarmed black man, that's not the issue.

[Jenksismyhero]

Well, don't spend months showing everyone just how much of a sham the GJ was going to be for one. Then, don't leak information to the business community to start an arms build-up ahead of the decision, further tainting the process and undermining your own credibility. Then, don't preemptively say you're going to heavily militarize the whole situation by calling out the national guard. After that, probably not a good idea to announce that the GJ has reached a decision but hold off on announcing it for hours, letting everything come to a boil. And last but not least, don't hold a sanctimonious press conference announcing the no-bill in which you indict everyone but Wilson and whine relentlessly about the media.

 

None of that would have stopped this and you know it.

 

The prosecutor went overboard because of pressure on both sides. He laid everything out and was transparent about it from the get go. The leaks are still bulls***, since really other than Wilson's testimony, nothing was leaked. We learned for the first time last night that many of the witnesses changed their story and/or admitted they didn't actually witness the entire thing. That wasn't part of the narrative either.

 

Surely mistakes were made as there are in every investigation and ever hearing, but nothing egregious. Nothing that would have changed the outcome here.

 

You're just looking for a scapegoat.

[bmags]

It is not remotely believable that Brown kept charging at Wilson, only getting stronger with each bullet that hit him.

 

Well that's what weed does to you.

[NorthSideSox72]

Go to a school. "Those kids are acting like animals" is probably a daily occurrence.

Furthermore, just as an example, I have many times heard frat boys, especially at parties, referred to as animals. Um... Animal House? And sometimes it is pretty accurate. Other times maybe not. Just pointing out another scenario where the term comes up often. Sometimes sarcastcally or even as a compliment, other times as an insult.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Citation needed.

 

Um, the press conference last night? He mentioned this approx. 5 times.

[bmags]

Furthermore, just as an example, I have many times heard frat boys, especially at parties, referred to as animals. Um... Animal House? And sometimes it is pretty accurate. Other times maybe not. Just pointing out another scenario where the term comes up often.

 

As they are calling the fraternity animals are they advocating the arms of the state act against them?