Ferguson Riots

[Milkman delivers]

And you sound so gung-ho to go into Ferguson and bring some good 'ol fashioned law and order...at least I presented some evidence that MIGHT exonerate the officer, if it was actually truthful.

 

You aren't giving ANY benefit of the doubt, at all...

 

The last place I wanna be is Ferguson, believe me. And you're insinuating that I wanna go beat some protesters because I'm telling you it's incredibly dumb to expect someone to make even tougher shots when his or her life is in danger? No, I'm simply telling you how it is.

[Milkman delivers]

Yes, we have a lot of retrospectives from this cop apparently. What's Mike Brown's side of the story?

 

If he tried to disarm an officer, his side of the story doesn't really make a difference.

[Milkman delivers]

You are right about that. Nobody in AMERICA will believe it either. The officer is going to have to "take one for the team" on this one and go to jail for 30 years. The people probably won't think that's enough and riot some more if it happens.

 

 

I like caufield's posts. The last 4-5 posts anyway. Nice job.

 

 

Amen brother.

 

Haha, he should just go to jail because people will want him to, even if he did nothing wrong?

[bmags]

If he tried to disarm an officer, his side of the story doesn't really make a difference.

 

Right, phew. Glad the officer cleared that up for us.

[Milkman delivers]

Right, phew. Glad the officer cleared that up for us.

 

I get what you're saying, but how else would you suggest he handle the situation if Brown actually did attempt to disarm him?

[caulfield12]

Surely we're always going to wonder if this incident would have happened without a police force that was 94.3% white patrolling a heavily minority area (at least 70%+ African American).

 

I'm willing to admit Brown probably had some culpability, it might even be 60-70% if SOME of the accounts are too believed.

 

It's also possible the officer got shook up or panicked because he SUPPOSEDLY almost was disarmed by this huge guy and the flight response isn't possible for a police officer, so the FIGHT response kicked in, as well as his target range training, assuming this is the first time he's fired his gun while on duty.

 

The officer surely has to be thinking of different ways he could have handled this situation without ending up in the loss of human life...just like Tony Stewart's sitting at home having to live with his actions and his contribution to a tragedy.

 

Perhaps he's not going to be held criminally negligent or responsible, but you can be sure the civil trial will go forward no matter what, and a not guilty verdict's going to be as hard to stomach for the local residents as the Trayvon Martin or Rodney King/Simi Valley cases.

 

 

Fruitvale Station this isn't...but it's one in a long line of seemingly similar incidents that show we still have a LONG ways to go in terms of trust and communication not only between the police and their communities, but also between black and white people specifically. Not only that, but black people distrusting others "representing them" or trying to appease them (Uncle Tom's/sell outs) or make a name for themselves coming from the outside to exploit the situation to their own benefit.

Edited August 18, 2014 by caulfield12

[Milkman delivers]

Surely we're always going to wonder if this incident would have happened without a police force that was 94.3% white patrolling a heavily minority area (at least 70%+ African American).

 

I'm willing to admit Brown probably had some culpability, it might even be 60-70% if SOME of the accounts are too believed.

 

It's also possible the officer got shook up or panicked because he SUPPOSEDLY almost was disarmed by this huge guy and the flight response isn't possible for a police officer, so the FIGHT response kicked in, as well as his target range training, assuming this is the first time he's fired his gun while on duty.

 

The officer surely has to be thinking of different ways he could have handled this situation without ending up in the loss of human life...just like Tony Stewart's sitting at home having to live with his actions and his contribution to a tragedy.

 

Perhaps he's not going to be held criminally negligent or responsible, but you can be sure the civil trial will go forward no matter what, and a not guilty verdict's going to be as hard to stomach for the local residents as the Trayvon Martin or Rodney King/Simi Valley cases.

 

 

Fruitvale Station this isn't...but it's one in a long line of seemingly similar incidents that show we still have a LONG ways to go in terms of trust and communication not only between the police and their communities, but also between black and white people specifically. Not only that, but black people distrusting others "representing them" or trying to appease them (Uncle Tom's/sell outs) or make a name for themselves coming from the outside to exploit the situation to their own benefit.

 

The forensics are already showing support that Brown was both facing and likely moving towards the officer. And then you have the background conversation claiming there was a scuffle and that Brown charged him. I don't care what the racial makeup of the department is, if those things end up being true, it's 100% on Brown.

[StrangeSox]

So the solution is for EVERYONE to have a gun.

 

 

Because, if, no matter what, an officer can presume you have a gun, then unless there's some type of video/cam, it's always going to be his word against the victim's.

 

Therefore, since officers will shoot assuming you have a gun anyway, why not just let everyone have a gun?

 

 

P.S. I'm sure trained professionals can hit a 300 pound guy from 35 feet away at least once or twice at waist level or below if he's taking 6-8 shots. Are we supposed to believe this guy's moving as quick as William The Refrigerator Perry down the street like an enraged bull?

You train for center mass, and even trained people have trouble hitting that in an intense situation with a handgun.

[StrangeSox]

The forensics are already showing support that Brown was both facing and likely moving towards the officer. And then you have the background conversation claiming there was a scuffle and that Brown charged him. I don't care what the racial makeup of the department is, if those things end up being true, it's 100% on Brown.

The forensics say nothing about the likelihood of Brown's movements.

[bmags]

I get what you're saying, but how else would you suggest he handle the situation if Brown actually did attempt to disarm him?

 

I think anyone that tries to disarm a police officer, or try and shoot anyone, may be brought down with force to protect others.

 

But that's kind of the point. I can't remember the last time one of these happened where the unarmed person didn't either have some sort of object that police believed was a gun, or tried to grab the gun.

 

I'm sure in some cases it happened, but every single time? It's a very intoxicating turn of events from someone trying to prove their innocence. Moreso when the other person can't off their own intent.

 

I have to say, that friends account sounds rather incredible. More rabid animal than teenager. Almost every action paints the officer in the best light (he not only charges, but keeps charging even after shot, so intent on ... bull rushing the officer)

 

But how good of a cop could you be if a jaywalking arrest turns into a dead kid? Surely there was some slip up along the way even if the kid was aggressively behaving.

[bmags]

The forensics say nothing about the likelihood of Brown's movements.

 

they also don't show any signs of a previous struggle.

 

My only thoughts are this probably all happened very fast. For some reason Brown turned around in a way that witnesses thought it was by force. Something that traumatizing is hard for the brain to process. He ran, may have been shot at from behind, turned around, started running, shot.

 

I find it hard to believe he "made an obscene gesture" or whatever the wording was, then started bullrushing. And kept going. And at all points, where does the hands up come from? That was an added detail, that was from the first witnesses around the scene on twitter on saturday the 9th. I was following when it happened. Everyone said he was executed. There's more there.

[StrangeSox]

Who just so happened to be doing some kind of victory dance or celebration in the middle of the street with their $49 worth of stolen cigars.

 

Because obviously no one else in the city would have the right to holding/carrying cigars in their hands, so it was very convenient that the officer just so happened four hours later to find those two still carrying around the cigars instead of smoking them, handing them out to friends, etc.

Wait,I thought it was like ten minutes later, not four hours

[StrangeSox]

they also don't show any signs of a previous struggle.

 

My only thoughts are this probably all happened very fast. For some reason Brown turned around in a way that witnesses thought it was by force. Something that traumatizing is hard for the brain to process. He ran, may have been shot at from behind, turned around, started running, shot.

 

I find it hard to believe he "made an obscene gesture" or whatever the wording was, then started bullrushing. And kept going. And at all points, where does the hands up come from? That was an added detail, that was from the first witnesses around the scene on twitter on saturday the 9th. I was following when it happened. Everyone said he was executed. There's more there.

There were at least three if not four witnesses who back up the "hands up" version.

[southsideirish71]

There were at least three if not four witnesses who back up the "hands up" version.

 

Are these the same witnesses that had Mike getting shot in the back as well.

[bmags]

Wait,I thought it was like ten minutes later, not four hours

 

The initial report was 4 hours earlier, now I don't really see any time date info.

[Balta1701]

Are these the same witnesses that had Mike getting shot in the back as well.

The same standard ought to be applied to witnesses here that is applied to witnesses in most cases; assume they're going to disagree, be inaccurate, and not make sense. That should go for the police officer as well.

[Milkman delivers]

The forensics say nothing about the likelihood of Brown's movements.

 

The bullet into the top of the head. But, I guess you could say that was from him falling forward after being shot the 5 other times.

[Milkman delivers]

I think anyone that tries to disarm a police officer, or try and shoot anyone, may be brought down with force to protect others.

 

But that's kind of the point. I can't remember the last time one of these happened where the unarmed person didn't either have some sort of object that police believed was a gun, or tried to grab the gun.

 

I'm sure in some cases it happened, but every single time? It's a very intoxicating turn of events from someone trying to prove their innocence. Moreso when the other person can't off their own intent.

 

I have to say, that friends account sounds rather incredible. More rabid animal than teenager. Almost every action paints the officer in the best light (he not only charges, but keeps charging even after shot, so intent on ... bull rushing the officer)

 

But how good of a cop could you be if a jaywalking arrest turns into a dead kid? Surely there was some slip up along the way even if the kid was aggressively behaving.

 

You can be the best cop in the world. You can't change someone's mind if they have already decided they aren't being arrested today.

[Milkman delivers]

they also don't show any signs of a previous struggle.

 

My only thoughts are this probably all happened very fast. For some reason Brown turned around in a way that witnesses thought it was by force. Something that traumatizing is hard for the brain to process. He ran, may have been shot at from behind, turned around, started running, shot.

 

I find it hard to believe he "made an obscene gesture" or whatever the wording was, then started bullrushing. And kept going. And at all points, where does the hands up come from? That was an added detail, that was from the first witnesses around the scene on twitter on saturday the 9th. I was following when it happened. Everyone said he was executed. There's more there.

 

The accounts that say there was a scuffle seem to say that Brown was the one pushing the officer into the car and overpowering him. So he wouldn't have many signs of a struggle.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Milkman delivers

[Milkman delivers]

Are these the same witnesses that had Mike getting shot in the back as well.

 

+1

[bmags]

You can be the best cop in the world. You can't change someone's mind if they have already decided they aren't being arrested today.

 

He's not arrested he's dead.

[StrangeSox]

The bullet into the top of the head. But, I guess you could say that was from him falling forward after being shot the 5 other times.

Right, it's not inconsistent with brown charging with his head down, but it's consistent with other versions as well.

[StrangeSox]

Are these the same witnesses that had Mike getting shot in the back as well.

At least getting shot at from behind. The initial forensics report isn't inconsistent with those shots missing.

[StrangeSox]

+1

Was the cops story via his friend inconsistent with previous police statements? (Yes)

[Milkman delivers]

He's not arrested he's dead.

 

Yup. But it may have been his own doing. And if so, you can't blame the cop. I get what you're saying, believe me. But it's sort of a circular argument.