Ferguson Riots

[StrangeSox]

Here is the relevant SC case, Tennessee v Garner.

 

This is the holding:

 

The Tennessee statute is unconstitutional insofar as it authorizes the use of deadly force against, as in this case, an apparently unarmed, nondangerous fleeing suspect; such force may not be used unless necessary to prevent the escape and the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others.

 

3.(2)(a) doesn't meet that standard. They can't use deadly force to effect an arrest just because someone has committed a felony, there has to be a significant threat of death or serious injury. I don't think you can argue such a threat existed if we're assuming (for argument) that Wilson fired at Brown while he was fleeing or when he turned around with his hands up.

[RockRaines]

IF the officer's version of events is substantiated (by those dozen+ witnesses we've heard about, fractured orbital, etc), there's no way he's even going to be charged.

I agree. And more riots by people who dont even live in the town will commence.

[CrimsonWeltall]

I don't think you can argue such a threat existed if we're assuming (for argument) that Wilson fired at Brown while he was fleeing or when he turned around with his hands up.

 

I don't think anyone here would disagree.

[southsider2k5]

Here is the relevant SC case, Tennessee v Garner.

 

This is the holding:

 

 

 

3.(2)(a) doesn't meet that standard. They can't use deadly force to effect an arrest just because someone has committed a felony, there has to be a significant threat of death or serious injury. I don't think you can argue such a threat existed if we're assuming (for argument) that Wilson fired at Brown while he was fleeing or when he turned around with his hands up.

 

I'm pretty sure you can't charge someone with a crime that isn't on the books.

[StrangeSox]

I'm pretty sure you can't charge someone with a crime that isn't on the books.

 

As I understand it, justification of deadly force is a defense from a charge. he can still be charged with murder or manslaughter, it would just be that he might have a defense against those charges.

 

You also can't enforce a statute that's already been ruled unconstitutional. Or, you can try, but you're going to get smacked down by the courts at some point. It's not uncommon for states to leave unconstitutional laws on the books but to stop enforcing them, e.g. several states still have statutes that are clearly in violation of Lawrence, they just don't enforce them and the legislature hasn't bothered to officially remove them.

[caulfield12]

I'm pretty sure you can't charge someone with a crime that isn't on the books.

 

 

The charge would probably be second-degree manslaughter, like the Oscar Grant/Fruitvale Station case.

 

 

[caulfield12]

I'm pretty sure you can't charge someone with a crime that isn't on the books.

 

 

Or they could use a Federal civil rights violation charge.

[greg775]

The cops raided a church where people were allegedly sleeping. Church leaders denied it.

Another cop shown last night telling people he was gonna f***ing kill them and told the media to f*** off when asked his name.

Both sides are at fault in these protests.

It's scary to think after a week and a half, these protests still could get really really violent.

 

Do you guys agree with the church leader who said this is the showdown with the cops everybody predicted? Then you look at what is going on internationally with Putin, North Korea, the bastards who beheaded the American. Is this the start of the end? Seriously.

Edited August 20, 2014 by greg775

[caulfield12]

The cops raided a church where people were allegedly sleeping. Church leaders denied it.

Another cop shown last night telling people he was gonna f***ing kill them and told the media to f*** off when asked his name.

Both sides are at fault in these protests.

It's scary to think after a week and a half, these protests still could get really really violent.

 

 

I think you mean the church denied they were allegedly sheltering looters/troublemakers from outside the community?

[caulfield12]

Here we go again, when things were just beginning to settle down...

 

 

 

(CNN) -- In a single column, a veteran police officer has catapulted himself into the national debate over the death of unarmed teen Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri.

 

"I'm a cop. If you don't want to get hurt, don't challenge me," the Washington Post headline blares. The piece was written by Sunil Dutta, a 17-year veteran of the Los Angeles Police Department

.

"Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don't want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you," he wrote.

 

Dutta cautions against arguing, insulting, or screaming at officers, "and don't even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?"

 

If you believe an officer is violating your rights or bullying you, Dutta says, don't challenge him then -- save that for lodging a complaint later. "Do what the officer tells you to and it will end safely for both of you."

 

It took no time for the anger over his message to explode.

 

"The outrageous thing is not that he says it. The outrageous thing is that we accept it," writes Ken White of the blog Popehat, which tracks American legal issues.

 

"Do we have a justice system? By name, yes. Is it effective in deterring cops from abusing citizens or punishing them when they do? No... If you hope the cop will be charged criminally for misbehavior, you're going to be waiting a very long time for no result."

Dutta's message is to "shut up and take it, because even the slightest bit of intransigence is grounds for the cops to unleash a world of hurt," writes Benjamin Freed of the Washingtonian.

 

"To say that putting up a verbal argument warrants bringing out the billy clubs, stun guns, or actual guns only stokes what's been seen coming out of Ferguson in the past week -- images of peaceful demonstrators being met with a lines of officers rigged with military-grade equipment, marchers being fogged with canisters of tear gas, and people being slugged with rubber bullets after not moving quickly enough," Freed complains.

[StrangeSox]

I posted that a few pages ago, yes that was absolutely ridiculous. Verbally challenging the police doesn't justify beating, spraying, tasering or shooting anyone.

[StrangeSox]

The cops raided a church where people were allegedly sleeping. Church leaders denied it.

Another cop shown last night telling people he was gonna f***ing kill them and told the media to f*** off when asked his name.

Both sides are at fault in these protests.

It's scary to think after a week and a half, these protests still could get really really violent.

 

Do you guys agree with the church leader who said this is the showdown with the cops everybody predicted? Then you look at what is going on internationally with Putin, North Korea, the bastards who beheaded the American. Is this the start of the end? Seriously.

here is a link:

 

http://gawker.com/reports-aid-station-adja...olic-1624563427

[caulfield12]

Now I'm starting to agree with Greg, lol. Scary.

 

This Sunil Dutta guy was born in Jaipur, India...it's QUITE alarming and a bit scary when immigrants to this country start believing this is the attitude a police officer should take towards other immigrants and minorities.

 

 

 

Dr. Sunil Dutta was born and raised in Jaipur, India. He works for the Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD). He is an author, adjunct professor, practitioner of Dhrupad, and a scholar of music and poetry.[1] He is the president of the North American Dhrupad Association.[2]

 

Dr. Dutta was a scientist before he decided to join the police. He is a scholar of Urdu mystical poetry and an Indian classical music form called Dhrupad. Dutta was born and raised in Jaipur, India. He obtained his BS from Haryana Agricultural University, Hisar, India.[3] He came to the US for his graduate studies, obtaining his MS from the University of Florida, Gainesville and his PhD from the University of California, Davis. He received his Masters degree in Security Studies from Naval Postgraduate School/Center for Homeland Defense and Security.[4]

 

Sunil Dutta was born and raised in a refugee family in India. His clan was a victim of religious holocaust in Punjab that accompanied the partition of British India in 1947. Many of his family members were killed in the violence and were forced to flee from their lands where they had lived for many centuries.[5] Dutta grew up in Jaipur, India.

 

Career[edit]

After spending some time working as a researcher and completing his doctorate in biology, he became disillusioned with science and left academia. Dutta was always interested in social issues. After leaving science, he joined the Los Angeles Police Department. Dutta is the founder of a non-profit corporation, the North American Dhrupad Association, which promotes ancient Indian classical music. He is widely recognised as a unique police officer and has received significant media coverage. Besides publishing in magazines and newspapers, he has published a book of poetry translations with Robert Bly.[6] Dutta has published some rare audio recordings of Dhrupad music.[2]

 

Dutta has written numerous articles about terrorism in South Asia,[7] death penalty, revenge, religious fundamentalism, and police reform.[8][9][10][11][12] He has given many poetry recitals with Robert Bly. Dutta teaches music, art of poetry translation and is a criminology instructor. He has taught at-risk students in the inner city of Los Angeles at the high school level. At the graduate level, he has taught biology, ecology, criminal justice, and human trafficking. Currently he teaches terrorism studies at the graduate level.[13] He has organised several music concerts in Los Angeles area and instituted scholarships for music students.

[caulfield12]

I posted that a few pages ago, yes that was absolutely ridiculous. Verbally challenging the police doesn't justify beating, spraying, tasering or shooting anyone.

 

 

Ooops...sorry, guess I missed a page or two somehow.

 

 

It's reminiscent of that crazy pastor from Florida who was burning Korans to put himself in the news....Jones or something was his name.

Edited August 20, 2014 by caulfield12

[StrangeSox]

Officer tells people livestreaming the Ferguson protests to go f*** themselves, threatens to shoot them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zbR824FKpU

 

The ACLU sent a letter requesting the officer's removal from the area, and he was:

 

http://www.aclu-mo.org/newsviews/2014/08/2...opriate-officer

[LittleHurt05]

St. Louis Police released the video of the shooting of the convenience store robber yesterday. At first glance, I thought it seemed excessive, but the guy was carrying a knife, was told to stop multiple times and just kept advancing. Seemed like he wanted to die by suicide via cop shooting. You can't expect the cops to get in a fist fight with a knife wielding suspect.

 

WARNING: Suspect gets shot and killed in the video. It's not really graphic, but it happens.

 

http://gawker.com/st-louis-police-release-...dium=socialflow

[greg775]

Quiet tonight so far in Ferguson but there have been arrests. I wonder when the media will send their people home. Probably after the funeral of Mike Brown next Monday. They can't stay there forever.

[Jenksismyhero]

Quiet tonight so far in Ferguson but there have been arrests. I wonder when the media will send their people home. Probably after the funeral of Mike Brown next Monday. They can't stay there forever.

 

When the audience numbers start to go down.

[Jenksismyhero]

St. Louis Police released the video of the shooting of the convenience store robber yesterday. At first glance, I thought it seemed excessive, but the guy was carrying a knife, was told to stop multiple times and just kept advancing. Seemed like he wanted to die by suicide via cop shooting. You can't expect the cops to get in a fist fight with a knife wielding suspect.

 

WARNING: Suspect gets shot and killed in the video. It's not really graphic, but it happens.

 

http://gawker.com/st-louis-police-release-...dium=socialflow

 

I'm surprised there isn't more uproar over that. You could argue he wasn't a real threat at the moment they started shooting.

 

You also heard a ton of shots. That's the natural instinct I was talking about earlier. When you shoot, you typically empty the clip even if you don't "have" to.

[StrangeSox]

I'm surprised there isn't more uproar over that. You could argue he wasn't a real threat at the moment they started shooting.

 

You also heard a ton of shots. That's the natural instinct I was talking about earlier. When you shoot, you typically empty the clip even if you don't "have" to.

 

Ezra Klein has a write up on this shooting. The police think the video clears them, but others think it shows that the use of deadly force was unnecessary.

 

http://www.vox.com/2014/8/20/6051431/did-t...-kajieme-powell

[caulfield12]

Putting him in handcuffs after he's clearly not able to fight back or resist....probably dead, that's not going to go over well.

[RockRaines]

I'm surprised there isn't more uproar over that. You could argue he wasn't a real threat at the moment they started shooting.

 

You also heard a ton of shots. That's the natural instinct I was talking about earlier. When you shoot, you typically empty the clip even if you don't "have" to.

He has a knife and was close range to the police. Thats a green light to shoot.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Anyone dangerous within 21 feet with a knife approaching you, you should shoot.

[RockRaines]

Anyone dangerous within 21 feet with a knife approaching you, you should shoot.

They said it was 4 feet, it looks further.

 

However a taser would have worked as well.

[Jenksismyhero]

Anyone dangerous within 21 feet with a knife approaching you, you should shoot.

 

21 feet seems a little far to be in "imminent" danger though. These guys also have their guns out and basically shoot immediately.