Ferguson Riots

[caulfield12]

So wait, let's go back. You really think this officer shot Brown because he was black? That's the only reason?

 

 

No, I never said that.

 

Although I'm pretty sure a white officer in Ferguson has never been found guilty of any type of wrongdoing for an incident involving an African-American member in that community.

 

 

Edited August 21, 2014 by caulfield12

[Jenksismyhero]

No, I never said that.

 

Although I'm pretty sure a white officer in Ferguson has never been found guilty of any type of wrongdoing for an incident involving an African-American member in that community.

 

You keep bringing up these racial issues though. Clearly you think that played a part.

[caulfield12]

Is it not possible that the Ferguson police department has a history of poor race relations yet in this specific case Wilson was justified in shooting Brown? The former being true does not prevent the latter from being true.

 

 

Of course, ANYTHING is possible.

 

Just like I can't prove that if Officer Ron Johnson was the one to encounter Michael Brown in the middle of that street, that Johnson wouldn't have ended up shooting him.

 

But it's also reasonable to think that in both of these shootings OTHER OUTCOMES COULD HAVE BEEN JUST AS POSSIBLE.

[caulfield12]

You keep bringing up these racial issues though. Clearly you think that played a part.

 

 

If the media and general population didn't think it was at all a part of the case, we wouldn't have heard about in the first place, there would have been no riots, no National Guard, no 10 day span of national news leading with this story and no Obama/Eric Holder press conferences.

 

Or do you disagree?

 

How many days did the national news, CNN, Fox News, lead their telecasts with stories about all the murders/killings/shootings in Chicago this past year?

Edited August 21, 2014 by caulfield12

[Jenksismyhero]

If the media and general population didn't think it was at all a part of the case, we wouldn't have heard about in the first place, there would have been no riots, no National Guard, no 10 day span of national news leading with this story and no Obama/Eric Holder press conferences.

 

Or do you disagree?

 

How many days did the national news, CNN, Fox News, lead their telecasts with stories about all the murders/killings/shootings in Chicago this past year?

 

I think SOME people ignorantly thought this was another example of a white cop unjustifiably murdering a saintly black kid in cold blood. Turns out that's probably not a true depiction of what happened.

 

But from there I think the story became more about the overreaction of the police and the militarization of the police. The race angle went away pretty quickly.

[caulfield12]

I think SOME people ignorantly thought this was another example of a white cop unjustifiably murdering a saintly black kid in cold blood. Turns out that's probably not a true depiction of what happened.

 

But from there I think the story became more about the overreaction of the police and the militarization of the police. The race angle went away pretty quickly.

 

 

Justification is a matter of interpretation. It's surely going to be a degree of culpability...whether that's 50% or above, is for a jury to determine eventually.

 

Just like the reactions to the other case or even Tony Stewart, two perfectly reasonable people can weigh identical evidence and come up with radically different interpretations and conclusions.

 

And I highly doubt anyone instantly thought the kid was perfect or saintly, any more than they believed the officer was infallible, heroic or incapable of poor decision-making in a stressful/tense situation.

Edited August 21, 2014 by caulfield12

[greg775]

Somebody made a good point on twitter, writing, "since was was the job description for police offer turned into a job without risk?"

I personally believe this second guy in St. Louis should have been tazed instantly. Watch the cellphone video. Did they need to kill him even if he had a knife? Walk up to him and taze the s*** out of him. I mean he might throw the knife, but again, isn't the job of cop to have 'some' risk? I'm not trying to be insensitive. I don't think the cop would have gotten killed by this guy with the knife. He was kind of meandering around. Taze him!

 

I'm still thinking the guy in Ferguson didn't need to die either. I want to hear more about the kid beating on the cop and going for the gun.

[EvilMonkey]

http://youtu.be/9igSoJHEdUo

[2nd_city_saint787]

Supposedly Dorian Jackson, Browns accomplice in the robbery and a key witness, told a radio station that Brown did indeed attack the officer and tried to take his gun.

 

http://therightscoop.com/report-key-witnes...officer-wilson/

 

They reported that last night, and this is the first I'm hear of it so, while it certain could be true and I do believe it, ya gotta question the legitimacy of it.

 

Also it's a classic rock station, so there's that too.

 

 

[zenryan]

Somebody made a good point on twitter, writing, "since was was the job description for police offer turned into a job without risk?"

I personally believe this second guy in St. Louis should have been tazed instantly. Watch the cellphone video. Did they need to kill him even if he had a knife? Walk up to him and taze the s*** out of him. I mean he might throw the knife, but again, isn't the job of cop to have 'some' risk? I'm not trying to be insensitive. I don't think the cop would have gotten killed by this guy with the knife. He was kind of meandering around. Taze him!

 

I'm still thinking the guy in Ferguson didn't need to die either. I want to hear more about the kid beating on the cop and going for the gun.

 

 

 

please tell me youre just trolling us now. PM me if you are and I promise not to spoil the fun youre having on this thread.

 

 

 

 

[zenryan]

LOLOLOLOLOL

 

 

 

it is really ridiculous on how dense some people can be

[2nd_city_saint787]

Supposedly Dorian Johnson, Browns accomplice in the robbery and a key witness, told a radio station that Brown did indeed attack the officer and tried to take his gun.

 

http://therightscoop.com/report-key-witnes...officer-wilson/

 

They reported that last night, and this is the first I'm hear of it so, while it certain could be true and I do believe it, ya gotta question the legitimacy of it.

 

Also it's a classic rock station, so there's that too.

 

Lame...Believe they got this from a 2011 report where Johnson was charged with filing a false police report.

 

 

[StrangeSox]

It's more "a source confirms" but CNN is reporting that Wilson did not have a fractured orbital bone.

http://www.salon.com/2014/08/21/cnn_refute...red_eye_socket/

[2nd_city_saint787]

It's more "a source confirms" but CNN is reporting that Wilson did not have a fractured orbital bone.

http://www.salon.com/2014/08/21/cnn_refute...red_eye_socket/

 

Now, CNN’s Don Lemon has reported that Wilson did not, in fact, have a broken eye socket, but was treated at the hospital for swelling around his face and eyes.

 

Just wanted to point that out for someone who doesn't click the link.

[LittleHurt05]

It's more "a source confirms" but CNN is reporting that Wilson did not have a fractured orbital bone.

http://www.salon.com/2014/08/21/cnn_refute...red_eye_socket/

 

The release of "facts" from "witnesses" and "sources" in this case has been so ridiculous. I think we have run through every possible scenario.

[StrangeSox]

A black eye isn't quite a broken eye socket.

[southsideirish71]

A black eye isn't quite a broken eye socket.

 

A black eye is not exactly running away with your hands up either.

[StrangeSox]

A black eye is not exactly running away with your hands up either.

Nobody has disputed a struggle in the car or through the car window before Brown turn and fled. There were just "sources" that said Wilson had this fracture, just like "sources" have said the police have over a dozen witnesses that back their version.

 

And of course these are just sources that are saying otherwise.

Edited August 22, 2014 by StrangeSox

[greg775]

please tell me youre just trolling us now. PM me if you are and I promise not to spoil the fun youre having on this thread.

Uh, now it's coming out he had no broken eye socket ... did you watch the cellphone video of the shooting of the guy with the knife in St. Louis? I can't believe the people aren't rioting over that death. If you watch the video, you tell me they couldn't have tazed the guy or shot him in the leg at the point he's wandering around in the parking lot. Was he going to fire the knife like a martial arts guy? What kind of knife was it?

Please comment on the video to me and tell me that life couldn't have been spared. I'm still sticking by my opinion they didn't need to kill the unarmed Mike Brown, as well. No broken eye socket after all???

 

The release of "facts" from "witnesses" and "sources" in this case has been so ridiculous. I think we have run through every possible scenario.

I'm so sick of bad reporting. You can't believe anything anymore because of twitter. Ridiculous. How bout some media members get fired over this crap reporting.

Edited August 22, 2014 by greg775

[southsideirish71]

Uh, now it's coming out he had no broken eye socket ... did you watch the cellphone video of the shooting of the guy with the knife in St. Louis? I can't believe the people aren't rioting over that death. If you watch the video, you tell me they couldn't have tazed the guy or shot him in the leg at the point he's wandering around in the parking lot. Was he going to fire the knife like a martial arts guy? What kind of knife was it?

Please comment on the video to me and tell me that life couldn't have been spared. I'm still sticking by my opinion they didn't need to kill the unarmed Mike Brown, as well. No broken eye socket after all???

 

 

I'm so sick of bad reporting. You can't believe anything anymore because of twitter. Ridiculous. How bout some media members get fired over this crap reporting.

 

It was a sharp knife greg. The kind that penetrates vital organs and flesh. It creates a big ouchy, the kind that a couple of band aids can't fix. I think Greg you watch one too many movies and have a very delusional view of how this all works. I know that in the movies the guy disarms the guy with a fancy set of ninja moves he learned after working out for 3 weeks to mid-80s inspirational soft rock. Or he does a fancy hip shot and shoots the bad guy in the hand, and catches the knife in midair. But its a bit harder than that in the real world.

 

[Rowand44]

Uh, now it's coming out he had no broken eye socket ... did you watch the cellphone video of the shooting of the guy with the knife in St. Louis? I can't believe the people aren't rioting over that death. If you watch the video, you tell me they couldn't have tazed the guy or shot him in the leg at the point he's wandering around in the parking lot. Was he going to fire the knife like a martial arts guy? What kind of knife was it?

Please comment on the video to me and tell me that life couldn't have been spared. I'm still sticking by my opinion they didn't need to kill the unarmed Mike Brown, as well. No broken eye socket after all???

 

 

I'm so sick of bad reporting. You can't believe anything anymore because of twitter. Ridiculous. How bout some media members get fired over this crap reporting.

You just don't read anything that other people have told you and you wonder why people get upset with you around here.

[greg775]

It was a sharp knife greg. The kind that penetrates vital organs and flesh. It creates a big ouchy, the kind that a couple of band aids can't fix. I think Greg you watch one too many movies and have a very delusional view of how this all works. I know that in the movies the guy disarms the guy with a fancy set of ninja moves he learned after working out for 3 weeks to mid-80s inspirational soft rock. Or he does a fancy hip shot and shoots the bad guy in the hand, and catches the knife in midair. But its a bit harder than that in the real world.

Great points. I appreciate them. But can I ask ... Did you see the cellphone video? You didn't see any point the suspect could have been tazed rather than killed?

 

You just don't read anything that other people have told you and you wonder why people get upset with you around here.

I read everything and you know what? Some other people agree with me. I know cause I've read their comments on twitter and some of the links on there as well. I saw the video with my own eyes and I saw several spots they could have knocked the guy down. Why real bullets?? Do you truly believe the deceased guy would have stabbed somebody had he gotten tazed? Why does it have to be death is all I'm asking?

Edited August 22, 2014 by greg775

[Rowand44]

I don't really care what your opinion on the whole thing is but the fact that you're still calling for cops to shoot someone in the leg or use a taser on a guy with a deadly weapon either means you're not reading the thread or that you're just ignoring facts.

[EvilMonkey]

Great points. I appreciate them. But can I ask ... Did you see the cellphone video? You didn't see any point the suspect could have been tazed rather than killed?

 

 

I read everything and you know what? Some other people agree with me. I know cause I've read their comments on twitter and some of the links on there as well. I saw the video with my own eyes and I saw several spots they could have knocked the guy down. Why real bullets?? Do you truly believe the deceased guy would have stabbed somebody had he gotten tazed? Why does it have to be death is all I'm asking?

How close do you think you need to be to use a tazer? 21ft or less? Then look at the video I posted a page or so back.

[caulfield12]

How close do you think you need to be to use a tazer? 21ft or less? Then look at the video I posted a page or so back.

 

 

And someone's going to come to a "reasonable" conclusion that the person in question can't be considered "average" in the sense that he was MEANDERING around at best, calling for the cops to shoot him, acting erratically.

 

Of course, the police didn't have the benefit of having monitored his behavior over the five or ten minutes before the shooting...but that also goes to the Brown case as well, that officer hadn't seen the convenience store video, so on one hand we can't use that video to add justification to the officer's actions in that particular situation but then turn around and not at all take into consideration the clearly pscyhologically-unstable nature of the second situation.

 

All the police can do is judge the situation as they first enter the scene.

 

It also seems clear from the video he wasn't an imminent danger (at least he wasn't perceived to be) to the other people around him, or they never would have been standing their taking video, making comments, etc. They just thought he was crazy. But if they really felt threatened by him, they would have quickly bailed.

Edited August 22, 2014 by caulfield12