Ferguson Riots

[gatnom]

They did tell her to stop.

 

Edit: nevermind, found it. The police officer wasn't very forceful about it, that's for sure.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2014 by gatnom

[StrangeSox]

I liked this deadspin article on Whitlock:

 

http://deadspin.com/can-jason-whitlock-sav...m-hi-1586606960

[StrangeSox]

He's saying they didn't use any force against her because she was white. I think he would generally agree with the way the police handled the situation.

Well that and upper-class.

[bmags]

Yeah, just to be clear, I think the police were right to let them go. One, mainly because a neighbor came and told them the guy worked in the neighborhood.

 

They probably could have done better in regards to this guy being disabled and he probably did not need to be forced to sit on the concrete.

[StrangeSox]

Good column by Whitlock IMO.

He says the "no justice no peace" protesting crowd is missing the boat. He says the protestors at the Cardinals game were trolling for trouble. The violent overtones here will not play well at the Cardinals' games coming up.

 

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/1166898...s-busch-stadium

If they are there to promote racial equality and justice and remind the one-African-American Cardinals and nearly all-white Cardinals fan base that an unarmed black teen was gunned down a short drive from the stadium, then we should applaud their effort. If they are there to troll and bait, then we should let them know they are harming the Brown family's quest for justice and dishonoring the sacrifices made more than a generation ago by Dr. King and others.

 

This is just silly. What does Whitlock think civil disobedience, which was the cornerstone of MLK's non-violent approach, is? It's trolling and baiting and provoking an often-violent response. Civil rights workers and protesters were screamed at, beaten, jailed and sometimes murdered in response to intentional provocation. Rosa Park's actions were intentionally baiting the Montgomery police to arrest her to make clear the racial oppression. The Freedom Riders were intentionally baiting the South. The Selma to Montgomery marches intentionally provoked violent police reaction.

 

eta: Should clarify that baiting a bunch of dumb Cardinals fans isn't exactly comparable to the situations described above, but that it's more a comment on the nice, glossy, shiny version of MLK and the civil rights movement that misses much of the actual history.

 

TNC on Mandela and the Question of Non-Violence

 

Malcolm X understood:

If violence is wrong in America, violence is wrong abroad. If it is wrong to be violent defending black women and black children and black babies and black men, then it is wrong for America to draft us, and make us violent abroad in defense of her. And if it is right for America to draft us, and teach us how to be violent in defense of her, then it is right for you and me to do whatever is necessary to defend our own people right here in this country.

Martin Luther King Jr. agreed:

As I have walked among the desperate, rejected and angry young men, I have told them that Molotov cocktails and rifles would not solve their problems ... But, they asked, what about Vietnam? They asked if our own nation wasn't using massive doses of violence to solve its problems, to bring about the changes it wanted. Their questions hit home, and I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today, my own government.

Edited October 9, 2014 by StrangeSox

[cabiness42]

This is just silly. What does Whitlock think civil disobedience, which was the cornerstone of MLK's non-violent approach, is? It's trolling and baiting and provoking an often-violent response. Civil rights workers and protesters were screamed at, beaten, jailed and sometimes murdered in response to intentional provocation. Rosa Park's actions were intentionally baiting the Montgomery police to arrest her to make clear the racial oppression. The Freedom Riders were intentionally baiting the South. The Selma to Montgomery marches intentionally provoked violent police reaction.

 

There is a huge, huge difference between baiting law enforcement and/or other government officials into reacting a certain way and baiting asshole Cardinals fans into reacting a certain way.

 

[StrangeSox]

There is a huge, huge difference between baiting law enforcement and/or other government officials into reacting a certain way and baiting asshole Cardinals fans into reacting a certain way.

Yeah I just added an edit that the two situations aren't exactly the same, and personally I'm not sure about the merits of baiting dumb Cardinals fans. On the other hand, protesting a major sporting event that's getting national coverage in St. Louis makes sense, and if just being there for your cause is enough to provoke dumbasses, it really only bolsters their point.

[Jenksismyhero]

I'm not going to condone cops going overboard when it comes to people not following their commands, but I don't see how you can compare this situation to something like the one in Chicago (or Hammond, wherever it was) with the taser. The woman wouldn't give the cops the ticket, wouldn't crack the window, the guy wouldn't state his name or exit the vehicle, they kept reaching for the back seat... ALL during a valid traffic stop.

 

Here you have a woman who is positively ID'ing the "suspect" as a handyman and not the burglar. The cops didn't need to "detain" him anymore.

[Jenksismyhero]

Well that and upper-class.

 

And what are the odds she would harm them? Versus someone in a car with the windows rolled up refusing to answer questions?

 

I get what you guys are saying, but I don't think this situation really warrants the comparison with other situations where cops overreact.

[StrangeSox]

And what are the odds she would harm them?

 

Well that's the point, isn't it? She's a middle-aged, upper-class white lady so the assumption is that she won't harm them. Young black guy acting identically? Or poor white dude in shabby clothing? Probably going to get tased, maybe arrested.

 

There's an awful lot of assumptions baked into the way police respond to and treat different classes of citizens, and it varies based on race, class, gender and other factors. Young black men are much, much more likely to be assumed to be criminals or likely threats, and that leads to violent and sometimes deadly results.

[Jenksismyhero]

Well that's the point, isn't it? She's a middle-aged, upper-class white lady so the assumption is that she won't harm them. Young black guy acting identically? Or poor white dude in shabby clothing? Probably going to get tased, maybe arrested.

 

There's an awful lot of assumptions baked into the way police respond to and treat different classes of citizens, and it varies based on race, class, gender and other factors. Young black men are much, much more likely to be assumed to be criminals or likely threats, and that leads to violent and sometimes deadly results.

 

Oh I doubt it. That person isn't a suspect and is coming to basically ID someone else. In a nice neighborhood too. That, to me, has more to do with this than skin color. Again, look at the cops involved. They're not adrenaline junkies patrolling more dangerous areas their entire shift.

[StrangeSox]

Oh I doubt it. That person isn't a suspect and is coming to basically ID someone else. In a nice neighborhood too. That, to me, has more to do with this than skin color. Again, look at the cops involved. They're not adrenaline junkies patrolling more dangerous areas their entire shift.

Class privilege is mentioned explicitly in the story, but upper-class black people aren't immune from racial harassment and stereotyping.

[bmags]

I'm not going to condone cops going overboard when it comes to people not following their commands, but I don't see how you can compare this situation to something like the one in Chicago (or Hammond, wherever it was) with the taser. The woman wouldn't give the cops the ticket, wouldn't crack the window, the guy wouldn't state his name or exit the vehicle, they kept reaching for the back seat... ALL during a valid traffic stop.

 

Here you have a woman who is positively ID'ing the "suspect" as a handyman and not the burglar. The cops didn't need to "detain" him anymore.

 

The man said he didn't have ID but DID give them a ticket of his, and they were reaching in the back seat...to the child in the back seat? This is just the point, isn't it? Basically anything can be justified to kill someone. You fail to grant any possibility that maybe the people in the car were terrified after getting a gun pulled on them.

[Jenksismyhero]

The man said he didn't have ID but DID give them a ticket of his, and they were reaching in the back seat...to the child in the back seat? This is just the point, isn't it? Basically anything can be justified to kill someone. You fail to grant any possibility that maybe the people in the car were terrified after getting a gun pulled on them.

 

I thought the lady, who was driving, refused to give the ticket, and told the cops to essentially take down her information on paper. Maybe I'm not remembering correctly.

 

Either way, no, the proper and logical response to not wanting to be shot is to follow instructions, not further escalate the situation by being more suspicious. I get wanting to be defiant and proudly stating your rights (even though they didn't have any there because cops can ask you to get out of the vehicle without any reasonable suspicion if it's during a valid traffic stop), but sometimes it's far easier to just bite your lip and get on with your life.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2014 by Jenksismybitch

[greg775]

There is a huge, huge difference between baiting law enforcement and/or other government officials into reacting a certain way and baiting asshole Cardinals fans into reacting a certain way.

 

Yeah, last night's video was pretty compelling. Any pictures of the scene have to be award winners. One of the video bloggers had shots of black women about a foot from the faces from a white cop, yelling at him and screaming at him. He didn't do anything and tried not to look at them. They were so close to his face it was creepy.

[bmags]

I thought the lady, who was driving, refused to give the ticket, and told the cops to essentially take down her information on paper. Maybe I'm not remembering correctly.

 

Either way, no, the proper and logical response to not wanting to be shot is to follow instructions, not further escalate the situation by being more suspicious. I get wanting to be defiant and proudly stating your rights (even though they didn't have any there because cops can ask you to get out of the vehicle without any reasonable suspicion if it's during a valid traffic stop), but sometimes it's far easier to just bite your lip and get on with your life.

 

I think it's ridiculous that it's up to citizens for this. Again, it's a seatbelt stop with a family of 4 in it. Guns were pulled, a window was smashed, and a man tazed in front of the kids. The other cop seemed to be talking and handling the situation fine. Maybe the other cop was just s***ty at his job?

[Balta1701]

I think it's ridiculous that it's up to citizens for this. Again, it's a seatbelt stop with a family of 4 in it. Guns were pulled, a window was smashed, and a man tazed in front of the kids. The other cop seemed to be talking and handling the situation fine. Maybe the other cop was just s***ty at his job?

So, I haven't seen anyone else post this but may have missed it, this isn't this officer's first excessive force case, he's had 3 settled out of court before.

[southsider2k5]

So, I haven't seen anyone else post this but may have missed it, this isn't this officer's first excessive force case, he's had 3 settled out of court before.

 

So much for McDermotts chance at Governor. Mike Pence is smiling his ass off right now.

[greg775]

This has all spread to St. Louis. Protestors stopping cars, stopping traffic, some rock throwing. This is starting to heat up on ustream tonight. My guess is once the gangs get involved in this it could get ugly. Something's got to be done. This situation in the St. Louis area is a powerderkeg. It could go either way right now, but people seem to be getting more violent.

 

You might call me an alarmist, but from the video I've seen I wouldn't want to be in those cars stopped by the mobs. The mobs have been yelling at people in the cars and wouldn't let an ambulance through for a while finally relenting. Once somebody sets one of these cars on fire, or tips one over, look out.

 

Obama is going to have to get involved. This is tipping toward violence. Ferguson protests on a nightly basis were becoming "routine" with lots of chanting, no violence. This St. Louis stuff is a much tenser deal.

Edited October 10, 2014 by greg775

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

I don't understand all the outrage I am seeing over the Shaw shooting. Unless what I've read/heard is wrong, some kid/guy fired 3 shots at the officer. The officer returned fire and killed the guy, and everyone is screaming racism and policing killing innocent black people again? What was the cop supposed to do? Let the person actually hit him with a bullet before returning fire? Not return fire at all because white cops can't shoot people of other races? I don't get all the protesting and outrage over this completely justified-sounding event. I'd like to hear what the protesters think would have been the correct thing for the officer to do while being fired upon.

[Balta1701]

I don't understand all the outrage I am seeing over the Shaw shooting. Unless what I've read/heard is wrong, some kid/guy fired 3 shots at the officer. The officer returned fire and killed the guy, and everyone is screaming racism and policing killing innocent black people again? What was the cop supposed to do? Let the person actually hit him with a bullet before returning fire? Not return fire at all because white cops can't shoot people of other races? I don't get all the protesting and outrage over this completely justified-sounding event. I'd like to hear what the protesters think would have been the correct thing for the officer to do while being fired upon.

The family is saying that the kid was unarmed and got caught up with a group of people running away from the cop and that the cop shot the wrong kid.

 

Whether that's accurate or not...the bigger part of this is that the community does not trust the police to fairly investigate what actually happened, and therefore people are angry about another police shooting. So even if the police say they found the weapon, the local population does not believe them.

[Y2HH]

The family is saying that the kid was unarmed and got caught up with a group of people running away from the cop and that the cop shot the wrong kid.

 

Whether that's accurate or not...the bigger part of this is that the community does not trust the police to fairly investigate what actually happened, and therefore people are angry about another police shooting. So even if the police say they found the weapon, the local population does not believe them.

 

Ballistics tests will tell the tale, whether the people want to believe them or not.

 

Science > some random peoples "opinions".

[Balta1701]

Ballistics tests will tell the tale, whether the people want to believe them or not.

 

Science > some random peoples "opinions".

And what will happen is that no matter what, people will believe the tests have been falsified because this community does not trust the police to be honest. "They're lying about the gun shot residue on his hands" or whatever.

 

Until we understand that is part of the issue and something that needs to be dealt with, all the science will not matter. That is the end result of a police force and a part of the community which are completely at odds. It's the same story as the previous shooting, the police closed ranks, declared war on the community, took off their name tags to hide from responsibility, trampled a makeshift memorial to the guy the night he was shot, why should the people trust the police to be honest about what they find?

[StrangeSox]

Police Pepper-Spray Black Teen After He Entered White Foster Parents' Home

[Iwritecode]

Police Pepper-Spray Black Teen After He Entered White Foster Parents' Home

Another version with more detail.

 

"I did everything that they asked," said Currie, who is about 5-foot-8 and 200-pounds. "I was calm and being compliant with them until something happened."

 

One of the officers noted the faces of three small white children in the family photos on the mantel. Currie is black.

 

"Where's your picture if you say you live here?" Stacy Tyler, who made Currie her foster child last December, recounts one of the officers as asking. "He (Currie) snapped. And that's when he got loud and yelling."

 

Officers raked his face with pepper spray.

 

"Mr. Currie became very volatile, profane and threatened physical violence toward the police officer," police in this Raleigh suburb said Wednesday in a prepared statement. "In an effort to calm Mr. Currie, the police officer asked him several times to have a seat, which he refused. Mr. Currie became increasingly belligerent and profane and the police officer attempted to restrain Mr. Currie with handcuffs to insure the police officer's and Mr. Currie's safety. Mr. Currie then struck the police officer's left arm knocking the handcuffs to the floor."

 

That's what led to the pepper spray, police said. No charges were filed against Currie.