Ferguson Riots

[greg775]

I think the cop should at least be put on trial. Hopefully that's the outcome.

[cabiness42]

I think the cop should at least be put on trial. Hopefully that's the outcome.

 

A trial would be nothing more than a politically-motivated show. Unless there is some very strong evidence out there that hasn't been made public, there is no chance of a conviction.

[greg775]

If the verdict is reached, announce it. Are they planning on waiting until right as it gets dark?? Bad timing.

[StrangeSox]

A trial would be nothing more than a politically-motivated show. Unless there is some very strong evidence out there that hasn't been made public, there is no chance of a conviction.

I don't see why that'd be the case. Short of there being witness testimony that hasn't been made public, all of the witnesses we've heard from so far don't support Wilson's version of being charged by Brown.

[cabiness42]

If the verdict is reached, announce it. Are they planning on waiting until right as it gets dark?? Bad timing.

 

Yeah, announce it while the jurors are still in the building. Much easier to track them down that way.

[greg775]

Yeah, announce it while the jurors are still in the building. Much easier to track them down that way.

 

Then wait until tomorrow. 9 a.m. announcement. There are going to be riots beyond belief tonight since it's not bitterly cold and not raining.

[StrangeSox]

Sure, just like there were going to be huge riots when the Zimmerman verdict was announced.

[cabiness42]

From cnn.com at 3:23 pm ET:

 

The grand jury looking into the shooting of Michael Brown has been released and sent home, local and federal law enforcement sources tell CNN's Shimon Prokupecz.

 

The prosecutor will formally announce at 5 p.m. ET that a decision has been reached by the grand jury. The announcement of the actual decision will come later, the sources said.

[cabiness42]

Drinking game for tonight: Do a shot every time somebody misuses the term "verdict" when discussing the grand jury's decision.

[greg775]

Sure, just like there were going to be huge riots when the Zimmerman verdict was announced.

 

Ferguson is very volatile.

[Jenksismyhero]

Really, no it hasn't been. That Grand Jury has leaked like a sieve.

 

I like how that Time article about leaks cites another article in the New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/18/us/ferguson-case-officer-is-said-to-cite-struggle.html?_r=1), which uses information provided by the government:

 

...according to government officials briefed on the federal civil rights investigation into the matter.

 

So the government is real pissed about all that information being leaked. Well, at least the information they didn't want leaked.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Jenksismybitch

[Jenksismyhero]

A trial would be nothing more than a politically-motivated show. Unless there is some very strong evidence out there that hasn't been made public, there is no chance of a conviction.

 

This is all being done to appease the masses. While unfortunate, I think that's necessary here.

[StrangeSox]

This is all being done to appease the masses. While unfortunate, I think that's necessary here.

 

I really don't get this mentality. We have an officer shooting someone to death and multiple witnesses saying the person was surrendering. How is a grand jury just something done to "appease the masses" and not a completely legitimate inquiry into the killing of Michael Brown?

[Jenksismyhero]

I really don't get this mentality. We have an officer shooting someone to death and multiple witnesses saying the person was surrendering. How is a grand jury just something done to "appease the masses" and not a completely legitimate inquiry into the killing of Michael Brown?

 

No I'm saying if he were actually charged. Obviously the grand jury is a very important and necessary step. But to me, assuming that the evidence that has been supposedly leaked is true, there's no way charges should be brought.

 

And just to correct what you said there, we have a criminal who attacked a cop that got shot. Not just "someone."

[StrangeSox]

No I'm saying if he were actually charged. Obviously the grand jury is a very important and necessary step. But to me, assuming that the evidence that has been supposedly leaked is true, there's no way charges should be brought.

 

And just to correct what you said there, we have a criminal who attacked a cop that got shot. Not just "someone."

 

An alleged criminal who allegedly attacked a cop and then ran away who got shot.

 

What evidence that's been leaked do you think completely clears Wilson? The most that's really been leaked is "several witnesses support Wilson's version of events" without any specificity on whether they support a portion of Wilson's story or all of it. That's all we have at this point. Wilson's version of events and the public witness statements all more or less match up until the moment Michael Brown turns around. Multiple witnesses say Brown then surrendered while Wilson's leaked story is that Brown then charged at him. Nothing that's been leaked so far gives any indication one way or the other on that last, crucial part.

 

edit: this is why an actual trial would be beneficial, so we're not just relying on leaked and vague pieces of evidence.

Edited November 24, 2014 by StrangeSox

[BigHurt3515]

Being from the St. Louis area and going back for Thanksgiving I am a little nervous about what is going to happen

[Leonard Zelig]

Does the grand jury's decision actually determine whether charges can be brought up? For some reason, I thought the DA could still choose to prosecute.

[Rowand44]

Being from the St. Louis area and going back for Thanksgiving I am a little nervous about what is going to happen

Where at?

 

I live and work about 20-30 minutes west of Ferguson and nothing at all happened around here when everything first started. I know my work has some safety precautions in place and a few of my coworkers are a little freaked out but I honestly don't think it's going to get too crazy unless you're right in the heart of Ferguson.

[StrangeSox]

Does the grand jury's decision actually determine whether charges can be brought up? For some reason, I thought the DA could still choose to prosecute.

He can but I'm pretty sure he's already said he's just going to follow whatever the GJ says.

[Jenksismyhero]

An alleged criminal who allegedly attacked a cop and then ran away who got shot.

 

What evidence that's been leaked do you think completely clears Wilson? The most that's really been leaked is "several witnesses support Wilson's version of events" without any specificity on whether they support a portion of Wilson's story or all of it. That's all we have at this point. Wilson's version of events and the public witness statements all more or less match up until the moment Michael Brown turns around. Multiple witnesses say Brown then surrendered while Wilson's leaked story is that Brown then charged at him. Nothing that's been leaked so far gives any indication one way or the other on that last, crucial part.

 

edit: this is why an actual trial would be beneficial, so we're not just relying on leaked and vague pieces of evidence.

 

I don't think anything "completely" clears him. We'll never have that. Obviously I'm assuming what we've read is true. If it's true, I don't think charges should be brought.

 

You've got the forensic report that says he was shot from close range in the thumb. There were reports that Wilson got punched. Brown's blood all over Wilson and the car. I still think the independent med. examiner who told the reporter the forensics matched Wilson's story that Brown was not surrendering, and the retraction that was really not a retraction, is persuasive.

 

Obviously I don't know. I'm not given the evidence like the grand jury. But if all of those things I've read are true, I do not think charges would be appropriate. You've got a guy that attacked a cop, tried to grab his gun and got shot. Other than some witnesses - whose eye-witness testimony is always unreliable right? - everything else seems to support Wilson's story or at least the story as laid out by the police dept.

 

Throw in the way the states attorney is handling this - multiple prosecutors, everything being transcribed, promises to be open and transparent - I mean obviously there's public pressure here to do SOMETHING.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Jenksismybitch

[BigHurt3515]

Where at?

 

I live and work about 20-30 minutes west of Ferguson and nothing at all happened around here when everything first started. I know my work has some safety precautions in place and a few of my coworkers are a little freaked out but I honestly don't think it's going to get too crazy unless you're right in the heart of Ferguson.

 

My family lives around 20-30 minutes south of downtown St. Louis on 55.. I doubt anything will happen around there but you never know.

[Leonard Zelig]

Where at?

 

I live and work about 20-30 minutes west of Ferguson and nothing at all happened around here when everything first started. I know my work has some safety precautions in place and a few of my coworkers are a little freaked out but I honestly don't think it's going to get too crazy unless you're right in the heart of Ferguson.

 

I live in Benton Park (55 & Arsenal) and I've seen no signs of protests or anything. Though I heard that police prevented protesters from getting to the casino where I work in St. Charles one night a while back.

[StrangeSox]

I don't think anything "completely" clears him. We'll never have that. Obviously I'm assuming what we've read is true. If it's true, I don't think charges should be brought.

 

You've got the forensic report that says he was shot from close range in the thumb. There were reports that Wilson got punched. Brown's blood all over Wilson and the car. I still think the independent med. examiner who told the reporter the forensics matched Wilson's story that Brown was not surrendering, and the retraction that was really not a retraction, is persuasive.

 

Obviously I don't know. I'm not given the evidence like the grand jury. But if all of those things I've read are true, I do not think charges would be appropriate. You've got a guy that attacked a cop, tried to grab his gun and got shot. Other than some witnesses - whose eye-witness testimony is always unreliable right? - everything else seems to support Wilson's story or at least the story as laid out by the police dept.

 

Throw in the way the states attorney is handling this - multiple prosecutors, everything being transcribed, promises to be open and transparent - I mean obviously there's public pressure here to do SOMETHING.

 

Nobody disputes that there was some sort of struggle at the car. Really, though, whether Brown attacked Wilson or Wilson grabbed Brown isn't really relevant. Even if we go with what's reported as Wilson's version of events, we're still left with Brown turning and running away from Wilson and Wilson chasing after him. At that point, he doesn't have justification to use deadly force on Brown.

 

It's pretty confusing to me to hear people say (and you're not the only one) that the leaked evidence so far is persuasive in justifying the shooting. The only thing you've really got there Wilson's own version of events. Then there is the autopsy report, and I'm not sure why you take the reporter's second-hand version of what the medical examiner said over the medical examiner flat-out stating that she was misquoted. The autopsy report seems to conclusively show that Brown was not shot from behind, but it doesn't (and can't) say if he was shot at from behind, and it also doesn't and can't say if he was charging at Wilson or if he was surrendering. Even going with what's being reported as Wilson's version of events, Brown stops, turns around with his one hand (the one that was shot) held to his chest and his other hand raised out to his side. Up to this point, even, there's not a whole lot of dispute. It's at that point that we get the critical break in the story, with all known witnesses saying Brown clearly surrendered while Wilson allegedly claims that Brown charged after him. The autopsy report doesn't say anything one way or the other on that and really can't. There's no leaks of actual witness testimony, so there's nothing publicly known at this point that supports Wilson's version of events.

[cabiness42]

I live in Benton Park (55 & Arsenal) and I've seen no signs of protests or anything. Though I heard that police prevented protesters from getting to the casino where I work in St. Charles one night a while back.

 

Hey, I played poker at that casino a couple times back in August during the protests.

[Rowand44]

I live in Benton Park (55 & Arsenal) and I've seen no signs of protests or anything. Though I heard that police prevented protesters from getting to the casino where I work in St. Charles one night a while back.

I'm in Creve Couer and nothing at all to date.