Ferguson Riots

[LittleHurt05]

And we're 100% sure these witnesses are credible?

 

Also, I don't think you are surrendering when you're running away.

 

This cop might have murdered the kid, but I'd like to hear the results of the investigation before condemning him.

 

Why would those witnesses lie about anything involving the police? They have no bias against them whatsoever.

[southsider2k5]

That's terrible if true. But I have a difficult time believing cops would just randomly start beating someone. I'd be willing to bet he resisted, hence the need for more than one officer.

 

I wish some of you guys interned or job shadowed at a criminal courthouse. You're all wide-eyed optimists, and the degree to which people lie is astounding and would shock you. I'm not at all saying that's what happened in this case or the Brown case, but you all seem to discount the possibility.

 

But that is what cops do according to this thread. They just shoot people for no reason, so you should probably hate them all.

[StrangeSox]

That's terrible if true. But I have a difficult time believing cops would just randomly start beating someone.

 

Why? There's literally dozens if not hundreds of incidents of this that you can easily google up. They might even be shouting "stop resisting!" while beating the person who is very clearly not resisting. I mean, just look at the way they treated protesters and media over the last week, including assaulting a member of the media for refusing an unenforceable demand to show ID. Look at the multiple unprovoked pepper-spray incidents at OWS protests, specifically the one at UC Davis and the one in NYC where the cop came up and sprayed a girl who was standing behind a barricade in the face. Jobs that give people a lot of authority can attract authoritarian assholes and bullies. #notallcops, but enough.

[Jenksismyhero]

We have no reason to doubt multiple independent witnesses at this point. So far, there's nothing that has directly contradicted what they are saying. Even the official police statements thus far have skirted around what exactly happened after the struggle in or through the car window. In other words, all known evidence to this point supports their story, nothing contradicts it and there's no reason to believe these people would lie or that they could have some how corroborated the same story.

 

Probably true, but those accounts were also given to reporters in the midst of a riot and complete police meltdown right? And of course we all know eye witness accounts are always accurate, right?

 

And nothing contradicts it yet because we have one side of the story so far. That's why i'm saying let's just calm down and wait. If the situation was reversed, and it was the cops telling the media the story, i'm sure you'd say well let's wait and find out what the accused has to say about it.

 

 

According to witnesses, he was shot as he was running away. He then turned around and put his hands in the air before being shot several more times.

 

I see. I still find it very difficult to believe. Not impossible, just a little unbelievable that a cop would straight up murder someone like that. It doesn't really add up, but I guess it could.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Jenksismybitch

[bmags]

That's terrible if true. But I have a difficult time believing cops would just randomly start beating someone. I'd be willing to bet he resisted, hence the need for more than one officer.

 

I wish some of you guys interned or job shadowed at a criminal courthouse. You're all wide-eyed optimists, and the degree to which people lie is astounding and would shock you. I'm not at all saying that's what happened in this case or the Brown case, but you all seem to discount the possibility.

 

I covered the courthouse daily in college. I'm not surprised at all. There are many people that do claim police were over the top (especially whiney rich college kids who tried to break into bars), but my emphasis is there is a higher standard for police than for a citizen or criminal. Because you are dealing with bad people does not mean you are allowed to sink to that level. A kid who steals cigars is probably a self-entitled punk, he also deserves the chance to grow up after he is punished.

 

edit: typo

Edited August 15, 2014 by bmags

[Jenksismyhero]

Why? There's literally dozens if not hundreds of incidents of this that you can easily google up. They might even be shouting "stop resisting!" while beating the person who is very clearly not resisting. I mean, just look at the way they treated protesters and media over the last week, including assaulting a member of the media for refusing an unenforceable demand to show ID. Look at the multiple unprovoked pepper-spray incidents at OWS protests, specifically the one at UC Davis and the one in NYC where the cop came up and sprayed a girl who was standing behind a barricade in the face. Jobs that give people a lot of authority can attract authoritarian assholes and bullies. #notallcops, but enough.

 

Mainly because there was a female cop. I find it hard to believe she'd be in on it and ok with it. But again, it's possible. I just bet there's more to the story.

[StrangeSox]

But that is what cops do according to this thread.

They unquestionably do. Finding documented cases of unprovoked police brutality is incredibly easy.

 

They just shoot people for no reason,

Sometimes, or at least they shoot for really terrible and completely unjustifiable reasons. Again, pretty easy to find plenty of documented cases.

 

so you should probably hate them all.

this is a dumb conclusion that nobody has suggested, but I guess that's the best you can offer.

[Jenksismyhero]

Why would those witnesses lie about anything involving the police? They have no bias against them whatsoever.

 

Is this meant to be sarcastic?

[StrangeSox]

Mainly because there was a female cop. I find it hard to believe she'd be in on it and ok with it. But again, it's possible. I just bet there's more to the story.

the counter-point to that would be the most famous Abu Ghraid abuse photos being with a female guard.

[illinilaw08]

That's terrible if true. But I have a difficult time believing cops would just randomly start beating someone. I'd be willing to bet he resisted, hence the need for more than one officer.

 

I wish some of you guys interned or job shadowed at a criminal courthouse. You're all wide-eyed optimists, and the degree to which people lie is astounding and would shock you. I'm not at all saying that's what happened in this case or the Brown case, but you all seem to discount the possibility.

 

I was a prosecutor in a pretty major city for a year. There are lots of good cops out there, but there are also some really, really bad officers.

 

I'm not going to get into too much detail here, but "resisting arrest" is a very, very subjective term that officers sometimes use as a crutch to act in a way not befitting their uniform...

[southsider2k5]

They unquestionably do. Finding documented cases of unprovoked police brutality is incredibly easy.

 

 

Sometimes, or at least they shoot for really terrible and completely unjustifiable reasons. Again, pretty easy to find plenty of documented cases.

 

 

this is a dumb conclusion that nobody has suggested, but I guess that's the best you can offer.

 

This entire thread is going in circles of outrage over an untrue stereotype. It is like listening to right wing talk radio talk about Obama.

[StrangeSox]

I see. I still find it very difficult to believe. Not impossible, just a little unbelievable that a cop would straight up murder someone like that. It doesn't really add up, but I guess it could.

 

I'll just say again that finding well documented cases of unjustified police shootings is trivial. If you want to expand that to police abuse and disproportionate use of force, even if provoked, there are literally thousands.

[Jenksismyhero]

the counter-point to that would be the most famous Abu Ghraid abuse photos being with a female guard.

 

True, but I still think female-involved situations like that are incredibly rare.

[bmags]

Mainly because there was a female cop. I find it hard to believe she'd be in on it and ok with it. But again, it's possible. I just bet there's more to the story.

 

The desire to protect your own in a job as stressful as police officer is apparently quite strong.

[StrangeSox]

This entire thread is going in circles of outrage over an untrue stereotype. It is like listening to right wing talk radio talk about Obama.

 

I don't think anyone knows what you're talking about and you don't really seem to be responding to anything actually said in this thread.

[Jenksismyhero]

I was a prosecutor in a pretty major city for a year. There are lots of good cops out there, but there are also some really, really bad officers.

 

I'm not going to get into too much detail here, but "resisting arrest" is a very, very subjective term that officers sometimes use as a crutch to act in a way not befitting their uniform...

 

Oh for sure, but so is an inmates claim that they were 100% compliant at all times.

[StrangeSox]

The Chicago police literally tortured people into false confessions for over a decade. The idea that a small but significant percentage of police are violent, authoritarian assholes shouldn't be that big of a leap.

[Jenksismyhero]

I'll just say again that finding well documented cases of unjustified police shootings is trivial. If you want to expand that to police abuse and disproportionate use of force, even if provoked, there are literally thousands.

 

But you have to admit this is a very extreme example, if what the witnesses say is true. There were ample outs for this cop. There were many different things he could have done. This is a murder that can't be covered up or "fudged" at all. It's straight up, the kids running away I'm going to kill him. I bet those instances are rare. Shooting when it wasn't justified, sure, but there's usually a fight or there's a mistaken belief of their being a weapon etc. This is basically an execution from 20-30 feet.

[StrangeSox]

But you have to admit this is a very extreme example, if what the witnesses say is true. There were ample outs for this cop. There were many different things he could have done. This is a murder that can't be covered up or "fudged" at all. It's straight up, the kids running away I'm going to kill him. I bet those instances are rare. Shooting when it wasn't justified, sure, but there's usually a fight or there's a mistaken belief of their being a weapon etc. This is basically an execution from 20-30 feet.

 

Yeah, I'd agree that cases as awful as this one appears to be are rare.

[Jenksismyhero]

The Chicago police literally tortured people into false confessions for over a decade. The idea that a small but significant percentage of police are violent, authoritarian assholes shouldn't be that big of a leap.

 

Yeah but in the grand scheme what % are we talking about? 1%? 5%? 10%?

 

To SS2k5's point, the problem is you (and certain communities) seem to either think, believe or convey in your arguments that that number is much closer to 80-90%. That we should assume the police are always in the wrong more than in the right.

[StrangeSox]

Radly Balko has written about the police militarization for years, if anyone is interested in looking into that aspect a little deeper.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Warrior-Cop-Mil...s/dp/1610392116

[mr_genius]

If you have been paying the least bit of attention to this story or just read the quotes from the witnesses posted a page back, you'd know the answer to your question is "both."

 

So the story is he was running away and got shot in the back, so he turned around and stood with his hands in the air, at which time he was shot repeatedly. all for no reason; well except because the police officer was a racist. I now have heard from a supposed witness from within the angry mob out for revenge. Maybe that did happen.

 

Now I will wait for evidence to support this witness account.

Edited August 15, 2014 by mr_genius

[bmags]

Yeah but in the grand scheme what % are we talking about? 1%? 5%? 10%?

 

To SS2k5's point, the problem is you (and certain communities) seem to either think, believe or convey in your arguments that that number is much closer to 80-90%. That we should assume the police are always in the wrong more than in the right.

 

What point would be your critical mass?

 

If you were a business owner and 10% of your employees were doing illegal s*** to their customers that would be a gigantic deal.

[StrangeSox]

the police chief just said that the cop had no idea the robbery had even occurred. so it was basically irrelevant. That goes back to the original reports that he was just yelling at them for walking in the street instead of on the sidewalk.

[LittleHurt05]

the police chief just said that the cop had no idea the robbery had even occurred. so it was basically irrelevant. That goes back to the original reports that he was just yelling at them for walking in the street instead of on the sidewalk.

 

Then why did they announce the robbery four hours earlier today? That's silly.