Harrelson, predictably, taken to task by media

[iamshack]

And?

All the dickfaces are insulted.

[IlliniKrush]

Lol at all the faux outrage. We've all been guilty of saying stupid and insensitive things in our lives. And quite frankly, it can be very hard to break these bad habits. I have absolutely zero problem with homosexuality and try my best to avoid use potentially offensive words, but I do slip up from time to time and use the word "gay" out of context (calling something lame). I've even done this in front of gay people I know. They have never scorned me for it, they have never judged me for it. They know I'm not a hateful person and understand it's nothing more than a bad childhood habit showing its ugly face.

 

I see absolutely no reason to crucify Hawk over this comment, and I think those doing so must foolishly believe they've never said some stupid or insensitive s*** in their lives.

The problem is that Hawk is held to a much higher standard than you or I, and has a microphone in his hand to reach at this point, millions of people. You have to be a lot more careful in those situations.

[ptatc]

Everyone knows the kind of talk that goes on in NBA/NFL/MLB clubhouses. Just read all the transcripts from the Dolphins' situation with Ignito and Martin...that's just touching the surface, undoubtedly.

 

Or remember Beckham calling Getz "gay" written in the dirt? All that stuff with Ozzie and Mariotti?

 

However, just because Harrelson was/is around that kind of talk, IN THE CLUBHOUSE...doesn't mean he shouldn't make some type of effort NOT to do it, or we should simply accept the excuse "that's just the way he is, he'll never change, etc."

 

He can at least TRY.

I don't recall him ever doing it before so maybe he does try and it slipped out just this once.

[iamshack]

The problem is that Hawk is held to a much higher standard than you or I, and has a microphone in his hand to reach at this point, millions of people. You have to be a lot more careful in those situations.

Ahh yes, I knew this one was coming...so it isn't a matter of being genuine, only pc.

 

This is why I really discount the pc thing.

[Hawkfan]

Lets have a woman short stop on our team next year, and shut these critics up. Women are good at baseball.

[StrangeSox]

Lol at all the faux outrage. We've all been guilty of saying stupid and insensitive things in our lives. And quite frankly, it can be very hard to break these bad habits. I have absolutely zero problem with homosexuality and try my best to avoid use potentially offensive words, but I do slip up from time to time and use the word "gay" out of context (calling something lame). I've even done this in front of gay people I know. They have never scorned me for it, they have never judged me for it. They know I'm not a hateful person and understand it's nothing more than a bad childhood habit showing its ugly face.

 

I think you make a pretty important distinction here, though. Yeah, everybody has said and almost definitely will again say stupid or insensitive things, but the difference is in how you react when it's pointed out to you that what you said was stupid and insensitive. You occasionally still call something "gay," but you try to stop and don't make excuses about it being perfectly ok to go around calling things gay.

 

I just rolled my eyes when I heard Hawk say what he said. I don't think he should be fired or even suspended over it, but I hope he'd listen to the criticism and maybe understand why it was a sexist remark.

Edited August 15, 2014 by StrangeSox

[greg775]

This point is just so hard for people to understand. You don't have to be outraged. But you can certainly disagree with what he said, and realize that he shouldn't be saying things like that when he's an announcer for a major league team, and a large part of the fan base is female.

 

Simply saying "well it's always been this way and that's why it's OK" doesn't make it OK.

 

Now you've got people comparing it to calling someone a "f**" etc. So if Hawk did that tonight, would that be OK too because that's how certain people talk?

 

There are ways to disagree with a call and describe your feelings on air without saying what he said. That's all he has to learn how to do in that situation.

 

Great post. I am not outraged, but I have watched college softball and volleyball and damn those girls (women) can play ball. Those softball infielders have quick reflexes and great arms. They can scoop anything. And volleyball? They'd beat the hell out of any fraternity team that might want to play 'em. I thought of the women studs I've seen compete at Kansas when Hawk said that.

But I repeat, I am not outraged at all and generally I hate walking on eggshells PC outrage. But I agree with the above post a lot.

[Chicago White Sox]

The problem is that Hawk is held to a much higher standard than you or I, and has a microphone in his hand to reach at this point, millions of people. You have to be a lot more careful in those situations.

I agree, but that doesn't mean he isn't allowed to be human. He obviously shouldn't be making potentially offensive comments on-air, but I think this level of slip-up doesn't warrant outrage. There are certainly things that we could say in our lives that would be totally unacceptable for Hawk to say on-air.

[StrangeSox]

The article in the OP is overwrought but I don't really see much "outrage" in this tread.

[Iwritecode]

Great post. I am not outraged, but I have watched college softball and volleyball and damn those girls (women) can play ball. Those softball infielders have quick reflexes and great arms. They can scoop anything. And volleyball? They'd beat the hell out of any fraternity team that might want to play 'em. I thought of the women studs I've seen compete at Kansas when Hawk said that.

But I repeat, I am not outraged at all and generally I hate walking on eggshells PC outrage. But I agree with the above post a lot.

 

IMHO, if you were to put a women's team in almost any sport up against an equivalent men's team (i.e. women's college basketball vs men's college basketball or women's fast-pitch softball vs men's fast-pitch softball), the guys are going to win more than 90% of the time.

 

That’s not to take anything away from female athletes. It’s just simple fact that males are typically bigger, faster and stronger.

 

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

I literally haven't said things like that since middle school, when I stopped, thought about it for a second, and realized how awful those things were to say.

 

You clearly don't play Call of Duty online/multiplayer.

[bmags]

IMHO, if you were to put a women's team in almost any sport up against an equivalent men's team (i.e. women's college basketball vs men's college basketball or women's fast-pitch softball vs men's fast-pitch softball), the guys are going to win more than 90% of the time.

 

That’s not to take anything away from female athletes. It’s just simple fact that males are typically bigger, faster and stronger.

 

Fine but Hawk's criticism isn't that women aren't the equivalent athletes to men in baseball he's saying women would be scared of contact and aren't tough, dainty, not meant to get dirty, etc.

[Dick Allen]

Fine but Hawk's criticism isn't that women aren't the equivalent athletes to men in baseball he's saying women would be scared of contact and aren't tough, dainty, not meant to get dirty, etc.

What did you think of the Chrissy Pronger stuff 4 years ago?

[kitekrazy]

That writer should wear a skirt.

 

Probably does and it was that time of the month.

 

Jack Lambert said the same thing about QBs when they changed the rules.

[kitekrazy]

Blah Blah Blah. Go cry me a river. Writers like that are the pure epitome of oversensitive america.

 

That's why they end up writing for Yahoo instead of working as a real journalist.

 

I guess Hawk's weakness is he is very passionate about the Sox and baseball. Steve Stone on the other hand is very tactful.

Love Hawk or hate him, but I think when "He Gawn" all of us will miss him to some extent. At one time we could have dealt with Mike North in the booth. He's good for saying stupid things.

 

[Kyyle23]

Oh boy, Hawk just went after Abbattacola.

[Jake]

The point here isn't about how good women are at baseball, it's just whether we should equate all that is wimpy with women. That's the problem with the comment. It's unfair to attribute these things on women. What Hawk said isn't uncommon and I do agree that we're hearing about it because people like to rip on him. With that said, everyone would benefit from thinking twice before making comments like these

[kitekrazy]

The point here isn't about how good women are at baseball, it's just whether we should equate all that is wimpy with women. That's the problem with the comment. It's unfair to attribute these things on women. What Hawk said isn't uncommon and I do agree that we're hearing about it because people like to rip on him. With that said, everyone would benefit from thinking twice before making comments like these

 

Some people have not adopted political correctness as their religion. Was this comment out of place 20 years ago. Mo! f*** this sensitivity bulls***.

[southsider2k5]

Some people have not adopted political correctness as their religion. Was this comment out of place 20 years ago. Mo! f*** this sensitivity bulls***.

 

The religion of outrage.

[Vance Law]

Not watching the game. Did Hawk address the situation in the broadcast?

[balfanman]

Fine but Hawk's criticism isn't that women aren't the equivalent athletes to men in baseball he's saying women would be scared of contact and aren't tough, dainty, not meant to get dirty, etc.

 

IMHO, that's not what he's saying at all. He did not say that women "athletes" were afraid of contact etc., he's saying that women in general are not as tough as men....generally.

 

Female athletes are a very small percentage of the overall female population. I'm in my mid 50's and probably 98% of the women I know would have nothing to do with a collision.

 

I find absolutely nothing wrong with what Hawk said and in my opinion the P. C. people are way over the line here, as they are on most issues.

[Jake]

What people are complaining about as "PC" is not some arbitrary set of rules - it's the fact that people will call you out when you do or say things that are harmful to society, in their opinion.

 

If you want women to have the option to be something besides skirt-wearing pansies, you have to watch what you say. Men and women both are encouraged to buy into these expectations when they are so clearly embedded into the way we speak and act. It doesn't matter that women are more averse to collisions in general - part of the reason for that is simply because everyone believes it. Talking about something like this as an example of a situation where people need to be wearing skirts just reinforces the notion that women ought to stay away from this sort of thing.

 

And it isn't that Hawk is some evil guy. We live in a society where we say and hear things like that, that are not overtly hateful or said with malice, and we don't think about how it affects other people or our society on the whole. This isn't like Hawk went on some sort of crazy, Duck Commander-y rant about this or that thing where you couldn't possibly say that without being an awful person. No, equating skirts with girliness and girliness with wimpiness is a subtler thing. Everyone in here who is saying that Hawk shouldn't have said that, has said that. We just aren't afraid to admit that we also say things that are wrong and try to be more mindful after the fact. This is how we learn.

 

It saddens me that so many people interpret these kinds of things to be a kind of black-and-white personal attack where they have to defend it absolutely just to make the point that empathetic people are ruining the world. Hawk said a kinda bad thing, he could have said a worse thing, but he didn't. Hawk's not a bad guy and he doesn't deserve to be suspended. Still, he and the rest of us should all think twice about making those sort of comments in the future.

Edited August 16, 2014 by Jake

[IlliniKrush]

Ahh yes, I knew this one was coming...so it isn't a matter of being genuine, only pc.

 

This is why I really discount the pc thing.

It SHOULD be a matter of being genuine, but what I said still stands. He's held to a much higher standard and has to be smarter because he can reach a lot more people.

 

What did you think of the Chrissy Pronger stuff 4 years ago?

Pretty stupid and pointless. There was no outrage over it but most people I know thought it was just dumb.

 

The point here isn't about how good women are at baseball, it's just whether we should equate all that is wimpy with women. That's the problem with the comment. It's unfair to attribute these things on women. What Hawk said isn't uncommon and I do agree that we're hearing about it because people like to rip on him. With that said, everyone would benefit from thinking twice before making comments like these

Any announcer could have said that and people would have noticed. Stone could have said it, and I still would have thought the same thing.

 

IMHO, that's not what he's saying at all. He did not say that women "athletes" were afraid of contact etc., he's saying that women in general are not as tough as men....generally.

Female athletes are a very small percentage of the overall female population. I'm in my mid 50's and probably 98% of the women I know would have nothing to do with a collision.

 

I find absolutely nothing wrong with what Hawk said and in my opinion the P. C. people are way over the line here, as they are on most issues.

The non-PC crowd is the one being way over the line at this point trying to defend it and making stretches comparing it to uses of other words, the wussification of America, etc. If you can't see something wrong with his comment, so be it. There doesn't need to be outrage (and as was pointed out, there really isn't outrage here), or whatever the hell you want to call it, but it was wrong, and shouldn't have been said. None of us wrote whatever article was posted. I didn't even comment on it.

 

He could have made his point about 100 different ways, he just chose the way that wasn't appropriate. That's all.

 

I don't know what he said tonight, but I'd be interested to hear it.

[IlliniKrush]

Oh boy, Hawk just went after Abbattacola.

Please elaborate, I didn't see it.

[Kyyle23]

Please elaborate, I didn't see it.

 

Farmteam put this in the game thread, this is verbatim

 

"I understand my old buddy Matt Abbatacola just ripped me apart yesterday, calling me names, calling me sexist. Friend of mine -- I didn't know Matt was still in town. I thought he was either fired, or quit and went some place else. I think he's just mad cause I don't use his name anymore. [About a minute later, sarcastically] Yeah, that really hurts, almost broke my heart. But I guess I'll have to live with it."

 

This is gonna be B&B fodder for a while if/when Matt goes back to producing them full time