Harrelson, predictably, taken to task by media

[elrockinMT]

Get rid of Hawk and put Ozzie Guillen in the broadcast booth

[elrockinMT]

I agree in theory but baseball is just slow no matter what you do to speed it up.

 

 

I am sorry but football and basketball are two game played with a broken clock. They can both be down to thirty seconds and take thirty minutes to finish

[chitownsportsfan]

Article, predictably, sucky and full of hyperbole

 

Huh, Sounds like Hawk. I'm sick of Hawk, I don't even care much about this particular comment but he's a bitter and increasingly incoherent old man. Nobody is saying he has to be forced out ingloriously but retirement should be on the table for '15 no question about it. Ease him out if you have to with a bunch of guest announcers next year so he can go out on his terms but he has shouldn't have any future as a full time commentator with Chicago.

 

 

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

Seriously, he said nothing wrong.

✓

 

For what it's worth, the author is being universally trashed in the comments section.

Deservedly so.

 

I think there are things that Hawk says that are annoying, but people who dissect every word he says with the intent of trashing him are twice as annoying.

[zenryan]

Wait...this really bothers people?

 

I've been tired of Hawk for years but good god the oversensitivity of people now a days is absurd.

 

 

Hawk is a jerkoff and is unbearable to listen to so I clicked on the Yahoo article because I hadnt heard this latest "controversy" and was excited to have some more reason to dislike Hawk. The first thing that went through my mind after reading the article was, "that was it??" As someone said on an earlier post, just another case of people looking to be offended.

[zenryan]

And yet most football games only have 3-4 minutes of ACTUAL action.

 

 

actually its 11 minutes. Baseball has 18 minutes of action on average.

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

OMG IT IS SOOOO SEXIST TO IMPLY A WOMAN PLAYING PROFESSIONAL BASEBALL AGAINST MEN IS A JOKE AND THAT SOMEHOW IT IS DEMEANING TO WOMEN EVERYWHERE INCLUDING ALL WOMEN AND EXCLUDING NO WOMEN.

 

seriously people, get a f***ing grip.

[Jake]

I'm not 100% sure if "casual misogyny" is the right way to describe the comment. The "skirt" business has more to do with the way sexism has changed the way we speak and communicate than it does with Hawk actively being a "casual misogynist." The way to think about this has to do with whether you think Hawk was thinking about the sport becoming actually woman-like or just what one thinks when they hear "girly."

 

We need to be careful about what we say - I would regret making the comment if I had made it - but it's worth thinking about the extent to which we turn this into a Hawk thing rather than something that you'll hear from a variety of figures, many of whom aren't evil sexists.

[Obama and Ozzie in 2012]

I'm a big fan of Hawk, and I don't like the new rules regarding home plate collisions. But yeah, I have a big problem with his "skirts" comment. I have a daughter, and I don't care if it's just generational sexism. People should grow and evolve every day, and even seemingly benign comments degrading men by using female stereotypes has a harmful effect by reinforcing the notion that women are weak.

 

And considering my girl is a promising boxer (and not alone in that regard), perhaps the unenlightened should rethink their views. I've met a few women in the gym who could beat the sexism out of most guys.

 

Sorry for the rant, just an issue that I take seriously. Let's get back to Sox baseball now!

[3GamesToLove]

Anyone who doesn't understand why this was at the very least a stupid thing to say is painfully out of touch, clinging to a time when certain groups weren't empowered enough to call people on their bulls***.

 

Your old road is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can’t lend your hand...

 

 

[Soxfest]

PC Police at it's finest.

[Feeky Magee]

Edited August 15, 2014 by Feeky Magee

[2nd_city_saint787]

[iamshack]

Anyone who doesn't understand why this was at the very least a stupid thing to say is painfully out of touch, clinging to a time when certain groups weren't empowered enough to call people on their bulls***.

 

Your old road is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can’t lend your hand...

That road was paved by those you are criticizing. This is exactly the sort of entitlement and arrogance that drives previous generations crazy.

 

Show a little respect, first of all, and secondly, if this is the worst thing we've got to be outraged about, than I think those previous generations should be applauded for the shape they've left things in.

[1dog]

Oh noes, the liberal PC police have spoken. And someone is (gasp)....offended! Please, a moment of silence for those offended.

 

Let me add a couple more pieces -

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/big-league-s...-225628385.html

 

http://deadspin.com/hawk-harrelson-should-...ns-a-1562071103

 

So he's sexist, racist, and misogynistic. It's great that people can be labeled so easily. If players that grew up in a certain region of the world, throw a baseball in a different manner than players where you're from, you are not allowed to make this point out loud. If you do, you are a racist.

 

I used to love Hawk more than I do now. I think he's getting up there in age and is not as good as he used to be. Many of these points have been made here. But to label him like these articles did is just not truthful. Look up the definition of those words and ask yourself if you think Hawk is any of these things. Rough around the edges, perhaps. Not as politically correct as most people on TV are, sure. But racist, sexist, and misogynistic? No way. Gimme a break.

 

[LDF]

One of the many reasons I think the biggest priority for the next commissioner, outside of the labor agreement, is speeding up the pace of baseball. Drop replay, put in some serious regulations to increase the action / speed. IIRC, the length of a baseball game today vs. 40 years ago is significantly longer. I'm sure part of that is commercial breaks (although those existed back in the day too). However, since 1970, the average baseball game has increased by approximately 30 minutes (from roughly 2.5 hr's to almost 3hr's). There are also more pitching changes now, I'm going to presume, then 30 or 40 years ago, however, I'd go to more extreme's to limit the amount of pitches and the total amount of time you can take during pitching changes and also potentially alter rules for mound visits in an inning. Maybe truly cap it at 1 per inning vs. current rules which can allow multiple in an inning (presuming the 2nd time you visit each pitcher you are pulling them).

 

the baseball bosses will never improve the speed of the game and with that, I am sure they

are trying to find way to increase it. reason, every 10 minutes there is a series of 3-5 mins of

commercials $$$$$. or in case of base ball increase the between the innings. $$$$ will always win

[ptatc]

And yet most football games only have 3-4 minutes of ACTUAL action.

Yes, but wagering on football with a point spread is much easier.

[winninguglyin83]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

 

[IlliniKrush]

I've watched more games that Hawk has called than probably 95% of people that post here, trust me. I've watched probably 80-90% of our games since 1983 or so.

 

I know, I know...we kids and young adults always know so much more than our stupid elders...

 

Do you think that your generation is the first to think they knew everything? Honestly? Can't you tell by now that basically every generation grows up thinking they know everything, only to realize as they grow older just how smart their parents and grandparents really were? I know I am coming off like some old fart here, but honestly, have some respect for people that have done things you haven't. Have some respect for a guy that played the game at an incredibly high level for many years. Have some respect for a guy that was a GM, turned down managerial jobs, and has been a broadcaster for 35 years.

 

That certainly is not to say that 100% of what the guy says is correct. We all know it isn't. But c'mon...it usually turns out that people that have come before us aren't nearly as dumb as we once thought they were. He does know just a little bit about the game.

Quite trying to mix up my words. I didn't say Hawk knows nothing about baseball. He just says the same thing over and over and over again, and a lot of times it's either incorrect, or he has to stretch something to make it a weird, larger point. "Tell you what Stoney, no one knows this game." What in the f*** are you talking about?

 

"First rule of baseball is catch the baseball." Is it? Says who? That's his defense for anyone that can't hit for s***, aka Gordon Beckham. He simply is stuck in his ways, and some of them are absolutely ignorant, like his unwillingness to try to understand new stats or his bulls*** TWTW.

 

This isn't an example of "hey, your parents were right about something," it's an old man being crazy at this point in time.

 

Just because you played the game doesn't mean you know everything about the game, and it sure as hell doesn't make you a good broadcaster. I don't really learn anything NEW about the game from Hawk. Not anymore. It's catch phrases and old stories. I genuinely learn things from Stone while listening to the game. Sometimes even Farmer or DJ. Hawk is just full of absolute nonsense at this point.

 

Oh, and please don't ever use his GM days as proof he knows something.

 

He obviously knows something about baseball, but at this point he's just too far gone.

[IlliniKrush]

the baseball bosses will never improve the speed of the game and with that, I am sure they

are trying to find way to increase it. reason, every 10 minutes there is a series of 3-5 mins of

commercials $$$$$. or in case of base ball increase the between the innings. $$$$ will always win

There are actually no more commercials in a game unless there are pitching changes. If an inning takes 3 minutes or 40, there's still 2 sets of commercials. That's it.

 

$$$ will only win if the ratings are there. And national broadcasts and WS broadcasts are way down.

[Middle Buffalo]

...or his bulls*** TWTW.

TWTW is just another way of saying someone "refuses to lose." It's been said countless times about guys like Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson ( or fill in the blank) as a way to illustrate that they had something that set them apart from everyone else. Something that made them "winners." I'm not sure why Hawk gets so much heat for TWTW. It's not exactly a new idea.

 

I'm no longer much of a Hawk fan, but I don't think this latest controversy is really much. I'm more offended/embarrassed by the over the top homerism. His evaluations of the Sox are largely useless as a result of trying to sell the product. I'd welcome a little more honesty in that area.

[IlliniKrush]

TWTW is just another way of saying someone "refuses to lose." It's been said countless times about guys like Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson ( or fill in the blank) as a way to illustrate that they had something that set them apart from everyone else. Something that made them "winners." I'm not sure why Hawk gets so much heat for TWTW. It's not exactly a new idea.

 

I'm no longer much of a Hawk fan, but I don't think this latest controversy is really much. I'm more offended/embarrassed by the over the top homerism. His evaluations of the Sox are largely useless as a result of trying to sell the product. I'd welcome a little more honesty in that area.

You're missing the point - it's how it came up, in his absolute dismissal of advanced statistics and the role they play in evaluating players and baseball strategy.

 

Here's why he's an idiot and got rightly flamed for it:

 

Some of the highlights included Harrelson quotes:

 

"TWTW. The will to win. You can’t put numbers on those things."

 

"The more numbers you have, the more information you put in the game, the more instincts you take out of the game."

 

"How are you going to accumulate a team W if the pitcher doesn't get his W?"

 

"TWTW is going to supersede anything sabermetrics brings in."

 

"Numbers are the most overrated thing in baseball."

 

And yes, his homerism is well over the top, but apparently that's why people think he's a great broadcaster. "Because he's a fan!"

[caulfield12]

TWTW is just another way of saying someone "refuses to lose." It's been said countless times about guys like Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson ( or fill in the blank) as a way to illustrate that they had something that set them apart from everyone else. Something that made them "winners." I'm not sure why Hawk gets so much heat for TWTW. It's not exactly a new idea.

 

I'm no longer much of a Hawk fan, but I don't think this latest controversy is really much. I'm more offended/embarrassed by the over the top homerism. His evaluations of the Sox are largely useless as a result of trying to sell the product. I'd welcome a little more honesty in that area.

 

 

Derek Jeter has basically said the same thing...about the over-analysis of number/stats/OPS/WAR taking the fun out the game and still not really measuring what what most accurately reflects a "winning" player and what makes for a JD Drew, Javy or Adam Dunn.

[chitownsportsfan]

I grew up on Hawk and Wimpy for anyone that complains about "oh you young kids" come on I'm 31 I was listening to Hawk and Wimpy 80 games a year starting around age 9 or 10. I LOVED Hawk. My pops and I would do his catch phrases all the time.

 

Since that time he's 20 years older and quite frankly the game has passed him by. It's time to retire with grace and class he sounds old and bitter and increasingly incoherent in every broadcast. Luckily this year there is some new talent to keep him over the ledge mostly.

[The Wiz]

Anyone who doesn't understand why this was at the very least a stupid thing to say is painfully out of touch, clinging to a time when certain groups weren't empowered enough to call people on their bulls***.

 

Your old road is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can’t lend your hand...

So you are saying you've never said someone was a "p**sy" or "f*g" or told someone to drop their balls or get their panties out of a bunch, or said something was "gay?" If you haven't, I find that extremely hard to believe.

 

I'm not saying that saying any of that stuff is right or wrong, but people have the right to say what they want and I'd say the vast majority of people who say these things do them out of jest/anger/ some sort of emotion and never mean to offend or have anything against any of the group's they may have offended with saying it. It is just something that has gone on with males for thousands of years. And I think you are definitely wrong, nothing is changing, the only thing is changing is the forums in which you can actually say what you feel and think are changing. Go to any school yard today and listen to the conversation of a group of boys and compare it to one of 30 years ago. Boys are still making fun of other boys, kids are still getting made fun of for doing things like a girl, etc. What also hurts your argument is that these groups that we are told are suppossed to be offended by making comments like this use those very terms in jest all the time. It's not uncommon for a girl to tell a man to stop wearing a skirt or get your panties out of a bunch. Or for homosexual people to call things gay, and so forth. If things were really changing, these groups wouldn't use those phrases and such anymore. Most of the time it is some white guy telling us that those people should be offended.