Washington Football Franchise team name discussion

[StrangeSox]

Serious question, do you have a link to this supposed percentage? I hear people saying that all the time, but nobody ever provides evidence. You have the same dozen or so groups that speak out about it, so of course you hear them. I know I have read stories where some Indian leaders have said pretty much that they don't give a s*** about the name one way or the other, but can't remember where I saw them. I will try and look for them.

From this summer:

http://cips.csusb.edu/docs/PressRelease.pdf

 

The Redskins team name is a racial or racist word and symbol.

American Indians were 67 % in agreement, 12 % were neutral and 20 % disagreed with the statement.

Other ethnic groups are spread across the three major categories of seeing the term Redskins as racist,

as neutral, or disagreeing in seeing Redskins as racially offensive. Whites were 33% in agreement, 26%

neutral, and 41% disagreed the term was racial, generally the reverse of American Indian responses.

The neutral category played a significant role for whites in allowing them to not be seen as “racist” –

upon further analysis more than 60% of whites reject the term Redskins as racist, while more than 60%

of Indians see the term Redskins as racist.

[southsider2k5]

You're using terms like "goalposts" and "meme," but I'm not sure you know what they actually mean.

 

I've been pretty consistent in asking you to explain why it's okay to keep using a racial slur. I've also consistently asked you to explain why stopping using that racial slur is worse for AmerIndian causes than continuing to use it. You've done nothing but hand-waive that away and insist that not using racial slurs is akin to censorship, and that really nobody should find them offensive in the first place. What you've continually failed to actually address are the original goal posts.

 

Regardless of your insistence that they shouldn't, substantial numbers of AmerIndians find the continued use of this racial slur offensive. Now, complete the following sentence: "Nevertheless, Dan Snyder should continue to use a racial slur as his team's name because ____________." That's the original goalpost, and you keep trying to talk about other things.

 

I have, but they don't fit your meme, which is exactly what you are doing here. You want to boil this down to one cute and simple sentence so it fits in a meme. If you don't get it by now, you don't care to get it.

[Jenksismyhero]

sorry for the brevity, insert "because AmerIndians believe it is offensive" after every time I said it's offensive.

 

SOME do.

[NorthSideSox72]

Ive still never heard anyone use the term Redskin when referring to an Indian outside of the Washington Redskins. And I am a pretty offensive and incentive person and hang out with such.

Because it's an insult, so most people don't.

 

If you've heard the N word, it's because of two key differences. One is, as I noted earlier, there is a lot more current population AND more current tension between blacks and whites (and Hispanics) where such adversity can make that language come out of the woodwork. The other is that, for reasons I still don't really understand, some African Americans have co-opted the term into their own speech.

 

I mean, how often do your friends have a reason to even be angry at an American Indian person? How often does that come up?

 

[Jenksismyhero]

You're using terms like "goalposts" and "meme," but I'm not sure you know what they actually mean.

 

I've been pretty consistent in asking you to explain why it's okay to keep using a racial slur. I've also consistently asked you to explain why stopping using that racial slur is worse for AmerIndian causes than continuing to use it. You've done nothing but hand-waive that away and insist that not using racial slurs is akin to censorship, and that really nobody should find them offensive in the first place. What you've continually failed to actually address are the original goal posts.

 

Regardless of your insistence that they shouldn't, substantial numbers of AmerIndians find the continued use of this racial slur offensive. Now, complete the following sentence: "Nevertheless, Dan Snyder should continue to use a racial slur as his team's name because ____________." That's the original goalpost, and you keep trying to talk about other things.

 

Guessing here.

[StrangeSox]

I have, but they don't fit your meme, which is exactly what you are doing here. You want to boil this down to one cute and simple sentence so it fits in a meme. If you don't get it by now, you don't care to get it.

Why is it okay to continue to use this racial slur? Feel free to reference previous posts where you have answered this simple, direct question.

[NorthSideSox72]

SOME do.

Which is plenty for me. It might be 30%, but the surveys being posted seem like it is closer to 70%. I'd imagine you'd get similar results asking about the N word.

 

Of course it won't be all, that's a silly bar to set.

 

[StrangeSox]

Guessing here.

From this summer:

http://cips.csusb.edu/docs/PressRelease.pdf

 

sorry, should have said substantial majority.

[Jenksismyhero]

From this summer:

http://cips.csusb.edu/docs/PressRelease.pdf

 

That's a pretty radical shift from the study I linked to.

[StrangeSox]

That's a pretty radical shift from the study I linked to.

yes, and that 10-year old study has been criticized for poor methodology

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/...s-one-poll-time.

[iamshack]

Some of you with all your terminology and shorthand stuff are like professional internet debators

[Jenksismyhero]

yes, and that 10-year old study has been criticized for poor methodology

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/...s-one-poll-time.

 

Lol, of course it was. Sigh.

[southsider2k5]

Why is it okay to continue to use this racial slur? Feel free to reference previous posts where you have answered this simple, direct question.

 

lol. I NEED IT SIMPLE!

[StrangeSox]

Lol, of course it was. Sigh.

Even if we want to treat them as equally valid, a months-old survey is more relevant than a decade-old survey.

[T R U]

Because it's an insult, so most people don't.

 

If you've heard the N word, it's because of two key differences. One is, as I noted earlier, there is a lot more current population AND more current tension between blacks and whites (and Hispanics) where such adversity can make that language come out of the woodwork. The other is that, for reasons I still don't really understand, some African Americans have co-opted the term into their own speech.

 

I mean, how often do your friends have a reason to even be angry at an American Indian person? How often does that come up?

 

A lot of words are insults, and people still use them. And I am not even talking about saying "Some redskin cut me off in the parking lot today" just typing that out sounds ridiculous as to why someone would use that as an insult or racist saying.

 

That being said, for a football team that's been around since 1932 I find it a little "eye roll" if you will that its just NOW that people want to wage some big fight against it.

[StrangeSox]

lol. I NEED IT SIMPLE!

The question is simple and direct. Your answer doesn't necessarily need to be, but so far all you've provided are some platitudes without explanation (take the power out of words instead of being censors) or irrelevant evasions (meme meme meme, there are more important issues).

 

Why is it okay to continue to use a racial slur? What purpose do you believe that its continued use serves?

[NorthSideSox72]

Lol, of course it was. Sigh.

Well, when a number of surveys say one thing and another is an extreme outlier, you have to wonder why. Maybe it's because the question was asked like this:

 

“The professional football team in Washington calls itself the

Washington Redskins. As a Native American, do you find that name offensive or doesn’t it

bother you?”

 

This is like survey 101 here. First, you don't ask a compound question and expect a yes/no answer. That's like asking "Do you like chocolate? Does it get stuck in your teeth?" Second, that question isn't even grammatically correct - no surprise there was some confusion from it. I frankly cannot believe that question made it through any sort of professional review process.

 

I cannot say if that is WHY it was so aberrant in it's results, but it is a pretty big clue.

 

[Jenksismyhero]

A lot of words are insults, and people still use them. And I am not even talking about saying "Some redskin cut me off in the parking lot today" just typing that out sounds ridiculous as to why someone would use that as an insult or racist saying.

 

That being said, for a football team that's been around since 1932 I find it a little "eye roll" if you will that its just NOW that people want to wage some big fight against it.

 

As I posted earlier, this is the part that infuriates me. We've been using the name without issue for decades and now that it's a hot topic people are doing the whole faux-outrage thing. I think that was Ditka's main point, which is why I agree with him.

[Chisoxfn]

You're also right, there are people who don't give a s***. What you need to find instead is the strong supporters who aren't white males. Something tells me those will be more rare.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redsk...66a1_story.html

 

I have no earthly idea what the breakout of this poll was and I realize it was in 2013, but you had a majority supporting. I presume, given the diversity of DC, that not all of the people who supported were "white males".

[bmags]

A lot of words are insults, and people still use them. And I am not even talking about saying "Some redskin cut me off in the parking lot today" just typing that out sounds ridiculous as to why someone would use that as an insult or racist saying.

 

That being said, for a football team that's been around since 1932 I find it a little "eye roll" if you will that its just NOW that people want to wage some big fight against it.

 

yeah, totally. Nobody has ever tried to get this name changed before. Certainly the first I've heard of it.

[StrangeSox]

"we've been using this racial slur for decades and you're only just NOW complaining?!" isn't exactly a good defense.

[southsider2k5]

The question is simple and direct. Your answer doesn't necessarily need to be, but so far all you've provided are some platitudes without explanation (take the power out of words instead of being censors) or irrelevant evasions (meme meme meme, there are more important issues).

 

Why is it okay to continue to use a racial slur? What purpose do you believe that its continued use serves?

 

While you seem to believe it is simple, it is not. This isn't something that can be put into a cute little box, so you can apply an easily understood label to it, and skip along your merry way having avenged the unfortunate souls, while not having achieved anything of substance.

 

So you can keep trying to lay the trap to win the internet and drop a boulder on my head, but you are wasting your time. The real discussion is there is you want to have it. If you want to keep raging, have at it.

[NorthSideSox72]

A lot of words are insults, and people still use them. And I am not even talking about saying "Some redskin cut me off in the parking lot today" just typing that out sounds ridiculous as to why someone would use that as an insult or racist saying.

 

That being said, for a football team that's been around since 1932 I find it a little "eye roll" if you will that its just NOW that people want to wage some big fight against it.

The majority of white/Euro people wouldn't have thought twice about calling someone the N word in 1932 either. It was an insult then too. We have just evolved as a society, and are in a place where many people don't find these things to be OK.

 

It isn't that the nature of the word has changed. It's that we are evolving as a society in our reaction to hurling insults.

 

[illinilaw08]

A lot of words are insults, and people still use them. And I am not even talking about saying "Some redskin cut me off in the parking lot today" just typing that out sounds ridiculous as to why someone would use that as an insult or racist saying.

 

That being said, for a football team that's been around since 1932 I find it a little "eye roll" if you will that its just NOW that people want to wage some big fight against it.

 

From Wikipedia... the controversy dates back to at least 1971.

 

"Although often assumed to be a debate of recent origins, the local Washington, DC newspapers have published news items on the controversy many times since at least 1971, all in response to Native American individuals or organizations asking for the name to be changed.[48]

 

National protests began in 1988, after the team's Super Bowl XXII victory. Numerous Native Americans wrote letters to Redskins owner Jack Kent Cooke encouraging him to change the name. Others boycotted Redskins products and protested. Many of these events were led by Suzan Shown Harjo of the National Congress of American Indians (NCAI). Cooke responded in an interview, stating, "There's not a single, solitary jot, tittle, whit chance in the world that the Redskins will adopt a new nickname."

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Re...ame_controversy

 

[Jenksismyhero]

Well, when a number of surveys say one thing and another is an extreme outlier, you have to wonder why. Maybe it's because the question was asked like this:

 

 

 

This is like survey 101 here. First, you don't ask a compound question and expect a yes/no answer. That's like asking "Do you like chocolate? Does it get stuck in your teeth?" Second, that question isn't even grammatically correct - no surprise there was some confusion from it. I frankly cannot believe that question made it through any sort of professional review process.

 

I cannot say if that is WHY it was so aberrant in it's results, but it is a pretty big clue.

 

That's gotta be a typo in the article.