Hahn- Deal could happen before Aug 31

[2nd_city_saint787]

Danks has absolutely gone into the tank over the last month. I think Ptatc is on to something with some fatigue issues either causing bad mechanics or overthrowing to make up for it. He hasn't be mechanically right for a while now.

 

 

That wouldn't surprise me one bit.

[Dick Allen]

I bet the payroll is higher next season than it is today.

[caulfield12]

I bet the payroll is higher next season than it is today.

 

 

Then they're really going to be spending a lot more than most expect, because if you start out with that baseline of $45 million,

 

1) you'd have to not trade Alexei Ramirez or Danks

 

2) you're subtracting the salaries of Lindstrom, Dunn, DeAza, Beckham and Belisario

 

3) and probably sitting at 50-50 that Nate Jones and Dayan Viciedo aren't going to be brought back or offered arbitration...Flowers and Noesi will be offered for sure, barring a dramatic change move by Hahn

 

 

To see an increase, that means there would need to be spending of roughly $42 million of additional/new spending on next year's roster alone.

 

 

That would give you James Shields, one of the 4-5 closers on the market, and roughly Adam Dunn's salary for another big hitter in the middle of the line-up.

 

Let's say it's James Shields at $20 million, Soriano/Robertson/Janssen/K-Rod/Uehara/Rodney (one of the aforementioned) at $10 million and then let's say Melky Cabrera/Markakis/Rasmus at $10-12 million.

 

That's three big-time free agents, including one of the top five in Shields and another top 10-12 guy in Melky Cabrera.

 

I'll believe it when I see it happen.

Edited August 21, 2014 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

I believe 100% that they will spend $70-80 million on their payroll next year.

 

Their payroll commitments currently are $45.4 million. This does not include De Aza, Beckham, Belisario, Viciedo, Flowers, Jones, or Noesi, who are all arbitration eligible players, nor does it include pre-arb players. Beckham and Belisario will certainly not be back, and Flowers and Jones' raises will be slight but still signficant. De Aza and Viciedo certainly could be non-tendered as well, or they could be kept. Regardless of what they do (I believe they'll trade both De Aza and Viciedo), they still have to replace that production in LF, and given the strides the team made this year - that they may be closer than they think, but with an ultimate goal for 2016 - they certainly aren't going to go with Michael Taylor, Jordan Danks, and Moises Sierra in LF. They likely have a replacement at 2B within the system. They could also justifiably bring in a catcher too and they will do something to address the DH situation too (whether that's internally or not). They will also need bullpen arms, and after this disaster of a season, you can believe they aren't going to go with Taylor Thompson and Andre Rienzo as options out of the bullpen.

 

You figure all of that, and you are talking about adding $25-35 million between all of it at bare minimum. Where does that put the Sox payroll?

 

If I were betting today, I'd say the only ones of those for sure that would be back are Flowers and Noesi.

 

Nate Jones and Viciedo could go either way, although I would think long and hard about what the benefit of keeping either one is going to be moving forward.

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

If I were betting today, I'd say the only ones of those for sure that would be back are Flowers and Noesi.

 

Nate Jones and Viciedo could go either way, although I would think long and hard about what the benefit of keeping either one is going to be moving forward.

 

 

He'll be back at some point next year but as a HUGE question mark. Is he worth a spot on the 40-man while he rehabs? Can they replace his top-10 reliever WAR via trade/FA?? At the minimum, I would think the Sox would non-tender him and then sign him to a higher-than-normal-salary minor league deal so he get's paid while rehabbing. But that is probably not realistic. Some team will give up the $$ on the hope he returns to the old 100mph Nate Jones.

[PorkChopExpress]

The USCF gun had him at 90-92 his last start. I don't think Danks is done. I don't think anyone is going to trade for him, unless you take back some expensive garbage, but there are worse things than having him around next year.

 

Does Brian McCann fit that bill yet?

 

[Donny Lucy's Avocado Farm]

He'll be back at some point next year but as a HUGE question mark. Is he worth a spot on the 40-man while he rehabs? Can they replace his top-10 reliever WAR via trade/FA?? At the minimum, I would think the Sox would non-tender him and then sign him to a higher-than-normal-salary minor league deal so he get's paid while rehabbing. But that is probably not realistic. Some team will give up the $$ on the hope he returns to the old 100mph Nate Jones.

 

 

Players on the 60-day DL don't count against the 40-man. Derp.

[Eminor3rd]

Then they're really going to be spending a lot more than most expect, because if you start out with that baseline of $45 million,

 

1) you'd have to not trade Alexei Ramirez or Danks

 

2) you're subtracting the salaries of Lindstrom, Dunn, DeAza, Beckham and Belisario

 

3) and probably sitting at 50-50 that Nate Jones and Dayan Viciedo aren't going to be brought back or offered arbitration...Flowers and Noesi will be offered for sure, barring a dramatic change move by Hahn

 

 

To see an increase, that means there would need to be spending of roughly $42 million of additional/new spending on next year's roster alone.

 

 

That would give you James Shields, one of the 4-5 closers on the market, and roughly Adam Dunn's salary for another big hitter in the middle of the line-up.

 

Let's say it's James Shields at $20 million, Soriano/Robertson/Janssen/K-Rod/Uehara/Rodney (one of the aforementioned) at $10 million and then let's say Melky Cabrera/Markakis/Rasmus at $10-12 million.

 

That's three big-time free agents, including one of the top five in Shields and another top 10-12 guy in Melky Cabrera.

 

I'll believe it when I see it happen.

 

I don't know why you're so concerned about the payroll. Hahn will add guys he thinks are going to be good value, and will pay what he's comfortable with paying. That might be signing 4 big free agents or just trading for some guys. Trying to get the payroll up to match someone's paradigm of "trying to be competitive" is really dumb, IMO. The payroll will NOT be a good measurement of this team's direction or how successful its offseason was.

[greg775]

Danks has absolutely gone into the tank over the last month. I think Ptatc is on to something with some fatigue issues either causing bad mechanics or overthrowing to make up for it. He hasn't be mechanically right for a while now.

Then shut him down. Team is beyond horrible and out of it. Rest him for next year. I am all for winning as many games as possible, but he's had a nice comeback season. Shut him down.

 

I don't know why you're so concerned about the payroll. Hahn will add guys he thinks are going to be good value, and will pay what he's comfortable with paying. That might be signing 4 big free agents or just trading for some guys. Trying to get the payroll up to match someone's paradigm of "trying to be competitive" is really dumb, IMO. The payroll will NOT be a good measurement of this team's direction or how successful its offseason was.

Lot of fans think about payroll and only payroll when thinking about players. It's insane, because who cares how much Reinsdorf spends? As we've said, it's not like a 50 million dollar payroll will mean they will lower parking costs, etc. I am in theory against paying any player big bucks, but at the same time I like seeing Jerry get hit where it hurts, the pocketbook.

[Balta1701]

Then shut him down. Team is beyond horrible and out of it. Rest him for next year. I am all for winning as many games as possible, but he's had a nice comeback season. Shut him down.

If Danks is exhausted now, then shutting him down now could also lead to him being exhausted at around this time next year.

 

If he's that tired, then skip a start, that's fine and maybe a good idea to keep him from getting hurt via overexertion, but don't shut him down.

[southsider2k5]

If Danks is exhausted now, then shutting him down now could also lead to him being exhausted at around this time next year.

 

If he's that tired, then skip a start, that's fine and maybe a good idea to keep him from getting hurt via overexertion, but don't shut him down.

 

We saw that work very successfully with Chris Sale, Jose Quintana, and Jake Peavy.

[Balta1701]

We saw that work very successfully with Chris Sale, Jose Quintana, and Jake Peavy.

You're supposed to disagree with me and tell me how awful it is for people to get any days off.

[southsider2k5]

You're supposed to disagree with me and tell me how awful it is for people to get any days off.

 

I only wish I had some 2005 White Sox to list.

[southsider2k5]

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2014082..._medium=twitter

 

 

As for the good news, general manager Rick Hahn isn't blind. He made wholesale changes during and after last season's 99-loss disaster, and he plans on making more moves in advance of the 2015 season.

 

"That's absolutely our intent," Hahn said. "That is absolutely our intent. We obviously can't guarantee we're going to be able to make 'X' number of moves and we're going to be able to hit on as high a percentage of our targets as we did last year, but it's certainly our goal to address ideally all of what we feel are our needs, before they shift, as quickly as possible.

 

"It has never been about, 'Hey, we got two things done, so we're good.' The fact of the matter is we didn't get everything done last offseason, and we look forward to the chance coming up in the coming weeks where we're able to get a little more aggressive in pursuing some answers out there."

 

Hahn made a waiver trade last week, sending second baseman Gordon Beckham to the Los Angeles Angels. He still could move a player such as Adam Dunn, John Danks, Dayan Viciedo or Alejandro De Aza before Sept. 1.

[kitekrazy]

If Danks is exhausted now, then shutting him down now could also lead to him being exhausted at around this time next year.

 

If he's that tired, then skip a start, that's fine and maybe a good idea to keep him from getting hurt via overexertion, but don't shut him down.

 

I never understood the concept of shutting someone down in any sport. If they didn't love to compete they wouldn't be athletes. Trying to plan to avoid injuries doesn't always work either.

 

[Dick Allen]

Actually, Danks was shutdown the last month of 2007 and came back in 2008 as a much better pitcher, which included a stellar performance in game 163.

 

So if it is fatigue, at least with him, I don't think shutting him down is necessarily a mistake.

Edited August 27, 2014 by Dick Allen

[ptatc]

Actually, Danks was shutdown the last month of 2007 and came back in 2008 as a much better pitcher, which included a stellar performance in game 163.

 

So if it is fatigue, at least with him, I don't think shutting him down is necessarily a mistake.

I would agree. He has pushed past his innings from last year. That's what you like to see post injury. Building the innings.

[Rowand44]

I would agree. He has pushed past his innings from last year. That's what you like to see post injury. Building the innings.

Do you think it's possible for his shoulder to loosen up more and regain some velocity, or is what we got this year what we're going to get from now on?

Edited August 27, 2014 by Rowand44

[ILMOU]

Might this help for a last gasp attempt at moving Dunn?

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/brewers-claim...-150040339.html

 

We can hope, I guess. 3 more days until his value is officially nada.

[flavum]

One month left. I'm good with anything when it comes to Dunn. We've gone this far.

[witesoxfan]

Might this help for a last gasp attempt at moving Dunn?

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/brewers-claim...-150040339.html

 

We can hope, I guess. 3 more days until his value is officially nada.

 

It would make sense. A lot of sense.

 

Or less than I thought, because Reynolds has been very bad against lefties this year. Maybe they think he can figure it out, but who knows.

[elrockinMT]

Dunn is the one I would expect to go simply because he is in his last year and a team only pays for a month or two of salary. I don't know what kind of return we could expect. Sox September call ups might include Wilkins and it would be nice to see him filling in for Abreu and also DHing and see how he does. As good of a teammate as Dunn is and the power he can show I doubt we see Dunn being offered a new contract with Chicago except at a reduced rate. We have options I would think beyond a multi-million dollar Dunn

[cabiness42]

Dunn is the one I would expect to go simply because he is in his last year and a team only pays for a month or two of salary. I don't know what kind of return we could expect. Sox September call ups might include Wilkins and it would be nice to see him filling in for Abreu and also DHing and see how he does. As good of a teammate as Dunn is and the power he can show I doubt we see Dunn being offered a new contract with Chicago except at a reduced rate. We have options I would think beyond a multi-million dollar Dunn

 

Unless the acquiring team wants the Sox to eat some salary, I don't expect any return for Dunn beyond a reliever who has never gotten past AA because of his walk rate. The kind of guy that even Coop is a longshot to fix. And it would be incredibly silly for some team not to add him given the negligible cost.

[Dick Allen]

This is what the Sox got for 1 month of Jim Thome:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/p...id=fuller001jus

 

I would imagine the "haul" for Mr. Dunn would even be less.

[witesoxfan]

This is what the Sox got for 1 month of Jim Thome:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/p...id=fuller001jus

 

I would imagine the "haul" for Mr. Dunn would even be less.

 

Along the same lines, this was what they got for Contreras

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/p...id=hynick001bra

 

And they got Sean Bierman for Jesse Crain

 

Basically, you get a guy that you wanted a closer look at and see if there's something there, and if not, then you move on.