Hahn- Deal could happen before Aug 31

[brian310]

That's really the only reason the Sox should be moving him. More AB's for someone with a future in this organization for the last month.

 

I'd be all for releasing him. We need space on the 40 and anyone who isn't going to figure into next years plans should just be cut to make room sooner.

[witesoxfan]

I'd be all for releasing him. We need space on the 40 and anyone who isn't going to figure into next years plans should just be cut to make room sooner.

 

That's a good message to send to veteran players around the league - if you sign with us, and we fall out of contention, we might release you and force you to move if you'd like further work in baseball regardless of your production.

 

---

 

It is certainly possible that they've received offers for Dunn and, upon approaching him about going to a contender, he's said no. Some people may view that as a weakness in a player, but I don't. Just because a guy doesn't want to move to a new city and try and get acclimated with new teammates for all of a month and a half doesn't mean he doesn't want to win. It just means that he believes his current comfort level is at its highest.

 

 

[Balta1701]

That's a good message to send to veteran players around the league - if you sign with us, and we fall out of contention, we might release you and force you to move if you'd like further work in baseball regardless of your production.

 

---

 

It is certainly possible that they've received offers for Dunn and, upon approaching him about going to a contender, he's said no. Some people may view that as a weakness in a player, but I don't. Just because a guy doesn't want to move to a new city and try and get acclimated with new teammates for all of a month and a half doesn't mean he doesn't want to win. It just means that he believes his current comfort level is at its highest.

If a guy won't put up with a 6 week road trip in order to get a shot at the playoffs he ought to just retire. Especially if you take into account how vastly overpaid he's been in the city where he currently is and the fact that he'd be doing that team a small favor by living out of a suitcase for an extra 2 weeks.

[witesoxfan]

If a guy won't put up with a 6 week road trip in order to get a shot at the playoffs he ought to just retire. Especially if you take into account how vastly overpaid he's been in the city where he currently is and the fact that he'd be doing that team a small favor by living out of a suitcase for an extra 2 weeks.

 

I won't go any further than I have, but I think the issue is much more complex than that.

[Balta1701]

I won't go any further than I have, but I think the issue is much more complex than that.

Whatever other things he might have going on in his life, I think that is a solid statement. He's being paid an enormous amount of money, more in a month than I'll make in the next 20 years, if "living out of a suitcase" is that much of a problem for him then why is he going on road trips anyway?

 

If he wanted a no trade clause he could have negotiated one or stayed in Washington the last 3 years.

[Dick Allen]

If a guy won't put up with a 6 week road trip in order to get a shot at the playoffs he ought to just retire. Especially if you take into account how vastly overpaid he's been in the city where he currently is and the fact that he'd be doing that team a small favor by living out of a suitcase for an extra 2 weeks.

So on one hand, the guy is vastly overpaid (I agree). On the other hand, teams like Oakland, with limited resources, should be lining up to trade for him, and you will laugh at them when they lose the play in game all because they didn't trade for Adam Dunn.

[Eminor3rd]

Dunn's final acts of futility just add to the legacy of KW. Rios and Dunn. Terrible signings.

 

Rios was fine, lol. Paid ~$46.2m for 9.6 fWAR, which works out to $4.8m/WAR, which is below market rate by any estimate.

 

This board kills anyone who has a bad year.

[witesoxfan]

Whatever other things he might have going on in his life, I think that is a solid statement. He's being paid an enormous amount of money, more in a month than I'll make in the next 20 years, if "living out of a suitcase" is that much of a problem for him then why is he going on road trips anyway?

 

If he wanted a no trade clause he could have negotiated one or stayed in Washington the last 3 years.

 

It just seems that, from what we've seen of the White Sox dealings with veterans in the past - guys like Contreras and Thome come to mind. I think this is a Reinsdorf thing.

 

I don't know that that's the exact case, and maybe they just haven't gotten anything, just that it's a possibility.

[Balta1701]

Rios was fine, lol. Paid ~$46.2m for 9.6 fWAR, which works out to $4.8m/WAR, which is below market rate by any estimate.

 

This board kills anyone who has a bad year.

There's a legitimate "opportunity/cost" issue though.

 

The White Sox went "all in" as a bet, in the truest sense of the phrase, in 2011. Rios was abjectly awful that season. The White Sox's failure that season continues to impact this team to this day. We had to cut payroll after that, shed veterans, and eventually start a true rebuilding process. We also sacrificed a year of Sale's eligibility working him out of the bullpen to try to win every game possible. Alex Rios's debacle of a season fed the 2011 White Sox debacle of a season, and even though he helped the next 1.5 years, his terrible play that year contributed to long-term damage to the franchise.

[LDF]

Dunn's final acts of futility just add to the legacy of KW. Rios and Dunn. Terrible signings.

 

I wouldn't so far as to say that they were terrible signings, I would say that other factors happen.

what, I wouldn't be able to put my finger on it. but for any who remembers me knows I was never

a backer of KW.

 

re: Rios, he had game a nice avg with K's at about 1/2 of his hits. but the problem stems again

from direction from the top.

[LDF]

There's a legitimate "opportunity/cost" issue though.

 

The White Sox went "all in" as a bet, in the truest sense of the phrase, in 2011. Rios was abjectly awful that season. The White Sox's failure that season continues to impact this team to this day. We had to cut payroll after that, shed veterans, and eventually start a true rebuilding process. We also sacrificed a year of Sale's eligibility working him out of the bullpen to try to win every game possible. Alex Rios's debacle of a season fed the 2011 White Sox debacle of a season, and even though he helped the next 1.5 years, his terrible play that year contributed to long-term damage to the franchise.

 

excellent post.

[shysocks]

There's a legitimate "opportunity/cost" issue though.

 

The White Sox went "all in" as a bet, in the truest sense of the phrase, in 2011. Rios was abjectly awful that season. The White Sox's failure that season continues to impact this team to this day. We had to cut payroll after that, shed veterans, and eventually start a true rebuilding process. We also sacrificed a year of Sale's eligibility working him out of the bullpen to try to win every game possible. Alex Rios's debacle of a season fed the 2011 White Sox debacle of a season, and even though he helped the next 1.5 years, his terrible play that year contributed to long-term damage to the franchise.

Not buying that Sale line. We had six starting pitchers put up roughly 3 fWAR that year and I know nobody's complaining about Sale's career path now.

[Balta1701]

Not buying that Sale line. We had six starting pitchers put up roughly 3 fWAR that year and I know nobody's complaining about Sale's career path now.

Would you be mad if we had another year of eligibility on Sale's contract?

 

And I complain regularly that we screwed around with his arm that year, FWIW.

[shysocks]

Would you be mad if we had another year of eligibility on Sale's contract?

 

And I complain regularly that we screwed around with his arm that year, FWIW.

I'm not sure exactly what you're arguing. I think what you're saying is that Sale would have been in the minors getting SP innings if Rios and the team had played better that year.

[Balta1701]

I'm not sure exactly what you're arguing. I think what you're saying is that Sale would have been in the minors getting SP innings if Rios and the team had played better that year.

That IMO Sale should have been a starter that season, preferably in the minors if the big league staff had no role for him. By having him in the bullpen, we used up a year of his pre-arb eligibility and failed to work on building up endurance/innings in his arm. both of these were bad things for his long-term position with the Sox. He didn't continue building on the 150 innings/season he got in college, which likely was reflected in his exhaustion and extra rest the next year during an actual playoff hunt, and we also lost a year of him being cheap.

 

Those were the downsides. The upside was supposed to be that we made the playoffs in 2011. We did not. There are multiple failures on that team, so it's not just Rios, but he had one of the worst seasons in MLB history, so at the very least he was a key part of it.

 

The 2011 White Sox was the team doing an all-in bet at a casino. We risked 5 years of the franchise's health on winning that year. After losing that year, we have spent the 3+ years afterwards with a weakened roster still recovering from its failures. Chris Sale was only one small part of the things we put on the table that year.

[shysocks]

That IMO Sale should have been a starter that season, preferably in the minors if the big league staff had no role for him. By having him in the bullpen, we used up a year of his pre-arb eligibility and failed to work on building up endurance/innings in his arm. both of these were bad things for his long-term position with the Sox. He didn't continue building on the 150 innings/season he got in college, which likely was reflected in his exhaustion and extra rest the next year during an actual playoff hunt, and we also lost a year of him being cheap.

 

Those were the downsides. The upside was supposed to be that we made the playoffs in 2011. We did not. There are multiple failures on that team, so it's not just Rios, but he had one of the worst seasons in MLB history, so at the very least he was a key part of it.

 

The 2011 White Sox was the team doing an all-in bet at a casino. We risked 5 years of the franchise's health on winning that year. After losing that year, we have spent the 3+ years afterwards with a weakened roster still recovering from its failures. Chris Sale was only one small part of the things we put on the table that year.

Well stated and hard to argue with. I still think that for all the complaints about his role that year, where we are with Sale right now could not be better. It's impossible to say how things would be different if he had been in Charlotte. Who knows, maybe he never signs his contract.

[LDF]

That IMO Sale should have been a starter that season, preferably in the minors if the big league staff had no role for him. By having him in the bullpen, we used up a year of his pre-arb eligibility and failed to work on building up endurance/innings in his arm. both of these were bad things for his long-term position with the Sox. He didn't continue building on the 150 innings/season he got in college, which likely was reflected in his exhaustion and extra rest the next year during an actual playoff hunt, and we also lost a year of him being cheap.

 

Those were the downsides. The upside was supposed to be that we made the playoffs in 2011. We did not. There are multiple failures on that team, so it's not just Rios, but he had one of the worst seasons in MLB history, so at the very least he was a key part of it.

 

The 2011 White Sox was the team doing an all-in bet at a casino. We risked 5 years of the franchise's health on winning that year. After losing that year, we have spent the 3+ years afterwards with a weakened roster still recovering from its failures. Chris Sale was only one small part of the things we put on the table that year.

 

it was a gamble and it failed. now we, the fans are paying for that gamble.

 

all things being fair, with out that, Hahn may never have been the gm, the process of getting fa's esp

Jose A, may never have happen. the great draft picking may never have happen. having another world

series ring would have been great, but the sox futures look great.

 

I am using the past as what not to do now and / or the future.