White Sox at Yankees

[GreenSox]

It's amazing how nearly every pitcher has underachieved this year, yet Cooper receives very little criticism on here. People probably just love his radio interviews.

Who underachieved?

Lindstrom? Danks maybe.

This team's only real back end reliever to start the year was Jones.

On paper it was a thin staff; and but for Q and Sale, easily the worst staff in baseball and the worst Sox staff this century.

 

In the end, the Sox found Noesi and a couple of bullpen pitchers. Not bad. The lack of depth is the front office's fault - lousy drafts, bad trades (we'll see how Hahn's work out but Williams made some poor moves his last few years) and no serious signings.

 

My disappointment is passivity of the front office toward churning this team in July, when it was obvious it needed it. We were not "in it" in July.

Edited August 23, 2014 by GreenSox

[SoxAce]

He gets a pass until he gets a team that should win. I mentioned it before, according to Soxtalk, the LF sucks, the CF is good but is always hurt, the RF sucks, the 3B might be OK, the SS needs to be traded, the 2B is awful, the 1B is awesome, the C sucks, the DHs and bench need to go away. The bullpen is awful, and at least 40% of the rotation is garbage.

 

Only green sox could manage this team to 130 wins.

I don't think I've heard anyone here say Avisail Garcia sucks. (yet) I agree with you to an extent though.

[chitownsportsfan]

He also never seemed committed to the idea of Hector Santiago being a starter, and he would easily be the 3rd best starter on this team.

 

Hector Noesi has the same bWAR as a Sox (.6) as Santiago has with the Angels.

 

If someone is offering you Adam Eaton in a package involving Hector Santiago, you sure as hell listen. It was a good trade.

 

The team is improving, it needs more work, if players have to get shipped out in order to balance things out long term so be it. Hector obviously had value but so far the Sox have won that trade.

[chitownsportsfan]

I don't think I've heard anyone here say Avisail Garcia sucks. (yet) I agree with you to an extent though.

 

Projections and scouts both love Avi and so should Sox fans. Give him a full season you're going to see 270-290 with 15-25 HR and a decent OBP. In a few more years, he could way past that. Also, his defense since coming back has looked much improved. We know he can run a bit as well. A 4 tool player. I put him as "star" in my analysis the other night and I think if he stays healthy he'll have a long productive career on the South Side.

Edited August 23, 2014 by chitownsportsfan

[2nd_city_saint787]

It was a first place team because only because it was run into the ground. Youk fell apart, Dunn kept striking out, Paulie had wrist surgery and Liriano was a bust. Didn't they have a ridiculous number of rookie bullpen debuts that year?

 

And last years team and this years team are short and not playing at full strength either. So far, none of Robins seasons has there been preseason expectations of success. Look at Joe Maddon's record before he had talent.

 

 

Bingo.

 

Youk, Dunn, and PK were all battered by injuries. Also, Sale had an ERA over 4 and Q/Liriano both had ERAs in the high 6s.

 

Last year they were actually 16-13 in August. Then in September they gave up the 3rd most runs in the league. Take a look at some of these ERAs in September...

 

Reed- 7.88

Jones- 7.27

Leesman- 9.58

Axelrod- 9.19

Danks- 7.71

Reinzo- 5.96

 

5 hitters played in 20 games or more and had batting averages of .230 or worse. Not a single player had an OPS over .800 for the month.

 

At the end of the day a manager will look as good as his team....Period.

Edited August 23, 2014 by scs787

[iamshack]

melton just commented on the pattern of late season collapses.

I'm with you, but the late season collapses were happening well-before a Robin got here...it's like something in the water.

[caulfield12]

The Will To Win argument comes full circle, lol.

 

How to quantify it? If we can't put a number to it, the idea of mental weakness/intestinal fortitude/clutch...then it therefore doesn't exist.

 

 

[chitownsportsfan]

The Will To Win argument comes full circle, lol.

 

How to quantify it? If we can't put a number to it, the idea of mental weakness/intestinal fortitude/clutch...then it therefore doesn't exist.

 

Ozzie put it well, when asked about if curses or mental obstacles caused the world series drought in Chicago:

 

"no, just a bunch of $hitty ballplayers".

 

Same thing with The Will To Win

[harkness99]

I'm with you, but the late season collapses were happening well-before a Robin got here...it's like something in the water.

 

Yeah in Ozzies last few years they collapsed like folding chairs when it mattered also.

[1dog]

He gets a pass until he gets a team that should win.

So it's ok to showcase the fact that you have no idea how to manage a ballclub, until the point that team has players that are actually good enough to win something significant. After he continues to make the same mistakes with those good players, costing them games, and thereby wrecking that team's chances to win a potential World Series - then it's ok to let him go.

 

Yeah, that makes sense. In fact, it's very much in line with the rest of your thoughts you've posted this year.

 

[2nd_city_saint787]

So it's ok to showcase the fact that you have no idea how to manage a ballclub, until the point that team has players that are actually good enough to win something significant. After he continues to make the same mistakes with those good players, costing them games, and thereby wrecking that team's chances to win a potential World Series - then it's ok to let him go.

 

Yeah, that makes sense. In fact, it's very much in line with the rest of your thoughts you've posted this year.

 

Yup makes sense. Gotta give the man a chance to succeed with good players. I think the FO agrees with this line of thinking seeing as they extended him after a 99 loss season.

 

 

 

Since tomorrow Joe Torre gets inducted into the Yankees HoF I'll bring up the fact that Joe Torre in his first 5 seasons had a win% of .400....In his 15 years of managing before coming to the yankees, his teams finished above .500 just 5 times....After 15 years did he just all of sudden become a good manager??? Or did he just inherit a really good group of players?

 

At the end of the day a manager will look as good as his team....Period.

Edited August 23, 2014 by scs787

[greg775]

It's amazing how nearly every pitcher has underachieved this year, yet Cooper receives very little criticism on here. People probably just love his radio interviews.

Great point. He's immune from criticism. It's all cliche. For some reason he's regarded as a genius. He's done a great job with Webb (sarcasm) and Lindstrom (sarcasm) and Bella.

I think we all knew at some point the Sox would turn to s***. The time is here. Does anybody on here think we will finish ahead of Minnie and Boston for that matter record wise?

[kitekrazy]

The Will To Win argument comes full circle, lol.

 

How to quantify it? If we can't put a number to it, the idea of mental weakness/intestinal fortitude/clutch...then it therefore doesn't exist.

 

You can put a number to it or can you. 1st place til late July and implosion in August. Not everything needs a number but I've seen enough mental weakness when it was time to show up vs. Twins and even the Tigers. That script rarely changes.

 

[2nd_city_saint787]

Great point. He's immune from criticism. It's all cliche. For some reason he's regarded as a genius. He's done a great job with Webb (sarcasm) and Lindstrom (sarcasm) and Bella.

I think we all knew at some point the Sox would turn to s***. The time is here. Does anybody on here think we will finish ahead of Minnie and Boston for that matter record wise?

 

Remaining schedule is tough as s*** so I wouldn't be surprised.

 

Matter a fact going back to August 7th the Sox only play 8 of 49 vs sub .500 teams...3 of those are the Rays who are just 2 under and are 11 games over since July 1st.

 

Hell, Astros have been playing decent ball this month so they could leap frog us as well.

 

Wouldn't shock me if this team ends up in the bottom 5 at the end of the year.

 

 

[greg775]

Remaining schedule is tough as s*** so I wouldn't be surprised.

 

Matter a fact going back to August 7th the Sox only play 8 of 49 vs sub .500 teams...3 of those are the Rays who are just 2 under and are 11 games over since July 1st.

 

Hell, Astros have been playing decent ball this month so they could leap frog us as well.

 

Wouldn't shock me if this team ends up in the bottom 5 at the end of the year.

 

I think the bullpen has been so bad and the defense so spotty the team finally has tossed in the towel. They gave .500 a run for a while but by the end of the season we won't remember that. The record is gonna be scary bad.

[Dick Allen]

I don't think I've heard anyone here say Avisail Garcia sucks. (yet) I agree with you to an extent though.

Avi has hardly played. I was referring to Viciedo.

[caulfield12]

Avi has hardly played. I was referring to Viciedo.

 

 

The way you characterized Alexei Ramirez was inaccurate.

 

It should have said starting American League All-Star SS, if not for a Derek Jeter retirement homage.

 

 

 

Meanwhile, Cabrera, the best hitter in baseball when he’s right, has been only very good this year after consecutive seasons with 44home runs, batting titles and MVP awards. He has a .817 on-base-plus-slugging percentage since the beginning of June, and while that’s not bad, the Tigers are counting on more.

 

“I still firmly believe that Miggy at some point -- and I’d like to think some point soon -- you’re going to wake up one morning and think to yourself, ‘Well I guess Miggy’s gotten hot,’” manager Brad Ausmus said.

 

Until that happens, the Tigers will continue relying on the likes of Victor Martinez and Ian Kinsler. So far that has worked, since they led the AL in batting average and slugging percentage entering the week. They can hit.

 

The Tigers also benefit from playing in the relatively weak AL Central. They’ll play 18 of their final 37 games against two teams going nowhere this year: the Minnesota Twins and Chicago White Sox.

 

And when that starting rotation gets healthy, watch out.

 

“There’s three Cy Young winners on this one staff,” Price said. “Anibal Sanchez won the ERA title last year and Rick Porcello is throwing the ball just as well as anyone else on this staff.”

 

In Scherzer, Price, Porcello and Sanchez, the Tigers have four starters with ERAs between 2.98 and 3.53.

 

“Nobody wants to be the weakest link,” Price said. “That’s always good when you can have that internal competition between your starting five. We all push each other to get better.”

 

It will be a matter of one-upping the starter who pitched the night before.

 

“We already had our friendly competition. He’s just adding to it,” Scherzer said of Price. “It just adds to our stable.”

 

www.freep.com/sports

Edited August 23, 2014 by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

The way you characterized Alexei Ramirez was inaccurate.

 

It should have said starting American League All-Star SS, if not for Derek Jeter homage.

Reading your posts he is old, he has to go, the attendance.....the fact is this team isn't very good. Their best players have almost all been injured. They have had others bust. People have been pining for guys from the AAA team to play. A team that actually has a worse record in AAA than the White Sox. Yet if the Sox lose, Robin is stupid. Look at the criticism for this game. A poster complained he DIDN'T bunt and used Webb in the 9th. Yet anytime he has bunted, he is stupid for wasting outs and any idiot except Robin knows Webb should be the Sox closer.

 

It used to be Greg Walker's fault when the hitters didn't hit. Now if the pitchers pitch well, Cooper is a genius. If they suck, Robin has to go. If the hitters hit, Steverson is great. If they don't Robin is a buffoon. Some people need to get a grip. The offense has been better, but really how much better would it have been without new players Eaton and Abreu?

 

The pitchers who should suck, suck. They need better players. That isn't Robin's job or Cooper' job or Steverson's job.

 

Stone said last night if the White Sox had KC's bullpen they would be in first place after Hawk said they would battle for first place. The talent level needs to improve.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Dick Allen

[JoshPR]

Agreed

[2nd_city_saint787]

I think the bullpen has been so bad and the defense so spotty the team finally has tossed in the towel. They gave .500 a run for a while but by the end of the season we won't remember that. The record is gonna be scary bad.

 

Surprised this is still up.

 

I don't think the team has thrown in the towel, I just think we got to a real tough part of the schedule.

 

Again, Sox final 49 games they only have 8 games against sub .500 teams and 3 of those sub .500 games are against the Rays.

 

I wouldn't say the record will be "scary bad". Sox only need to win 4 more games to match last years win total, that's gonna happen. There's 34 games left...even if they go 10-20 in those games, that's a 10 game increase from last year.