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Better Future Core: Sox or Cubs?


QuickJones81

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 27, 2014 -> 10:25 PM)
The Sox have both Sale and Q. Rodon has a ceiling of being another Chris Sale. The Cubs have nothing in pitching that approaches that.

I agree and the Cubs will not be able to sign all these guys when they become free agents at the same time. Cubs will be lucky If 2 of these prospects work out.

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 27, 2014 -> 10:25 PM)
The Sox have both Sale and Q. Rodon has a ceiling of being another Chris Sale. The Cubs have nothing in pitching that approaches that.

 

The Sox are definitely better at pitching, I am not doubting that. The core of Sale, Q and Rodon, with soon to be arriving Danish, Montas, Adams, and even Martinez and Guerrero, our pitching potential is ways ahead.

 

But I think folks are off base when they say Cubs have no pitching depth on their side. Arrieta, Wada, Hendricks, CJ Edwards, Pierce Johnson, Rondon at closer, and the potential of Jacob Turner is nothing to slouch at.

Edited by thxfrthmmrs
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QUOTE (ron883 @ Aug 27, 2014 -> 10:16 PM)
Did Rizzo die? People seem to forget he is a legit hitter who is in the majors... He is a legit lefty hitter. Close to the value Abreu brings while on a dirt cheap contract. Castro has a cheap contract. Another player being completely ignored is Arrieta. Soler, Baez, Bryant, Russell, Schwarber, Alcantara... Cubs talent is just filthy. They have tons of cost controller talent. Baez and Soler have low bust probably as far as prospects go. I expect at least one to be a star.

 

Baez and Soler have very high bust probability. Right now, Baez is like an extreme version of Adam Dunn minus the ability to take a walk. Strikeout or home run.

 

The Sox have Sale, Quintana, Eaton, Avi and Abreu proving it in the major leagues. While the minors depth isn't as strong as the Cubs Anderson, Semien, Sanchez, Montas, Adams, Danish, Martinez, Ravelo, Rondon and even Davidson still are bringing some talent. Beck, Bassitt, and EJ could all be something still. Oh, then Rodon.

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You've gotta be honest and give a slight edge to the flubs. However, when you consider the length of time each franchise has been undergoing a rebuild, the progress made by the white sox the have the edge in my book.

 

The flubs easily have -- what -- two or three more years into their process of rebuilding.

 

Bottom line, we've made more progress in a shorter amount of time.

 

Period.

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QUOTE (hi8is @ Aug 28, 2014 -> 12:49 AM)
You've gotta be honest and give a slight edge to the flubs. However, when you consider the length of time each franchise has been undergoing a rebuild, the progress made by the white sox the have the edge in my book.

 

The flubs easily have -- what -- two or three more years into their process of rebuilding.

 

Bottom line, we've made more progress in a shorter amount of time.

 

Period.

 

Yea I agree plus the Sox didn't completely crater, there is value in that IMO. Baseball is better when both teams in Chicago are good and while it would pain me to see the Cubs make a lot of noise next year if the Sox are still mediocre it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to get people in Chicago excited about baseball again.

 

I think the Sox are well positioned and as far as MLB talent it's not even close the Sox have more guys that have established themselves then the Cubs. The Cubs have a plethora of top 50 prospects however so things can change but as you said the Cubs are 2 or even 3 years further into their rebuild than the Sox and the Sox have many inherent disadvantages financially.

 

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QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Aug 28, 2014 -> 12:06 AM)
Yea I agree plus the Sox didn't completely crater, there is value in that IMO. Baseball is better when both teams in Chicago are good and while it would pain me to see the Cubs make a lot of noise next year if the Sox are still mediocre it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to get people in Chicago excited about baseball again.

 

I think the Sox are well positioned and as far as MLB talent it's not even close the Sox have more guys that have established themselves then the Cubs. The Cubs have a plethora of top 50 prospects however so things can change but as you said the Cubs are 2 or even 3 years further into their rebuild than the Sox and the Sox have many inherent disadvantages financially.

 

 

Depends on the definition of cratering.

 

If you took away the blip of being competitive for most of 2012, you'd have 2011, 2013 and 2014 as down years, with 2013 as rock bottom.

 

Maybe not bottom five in the majors bad for 3-4 years, but the equivalent for the Sox franchise in terms of sponsorship/revenues impact from the poor play.

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My initial reaction says Cubs, but then when you realize that Sale and Abreu are already MLB superstars, and Quintana is quietly very good, it kind of makes me think a bit more. Obviously the Cubs top prospects are infinitely better than the Sox top prospects (minus Rodon), but you have to assume at least half of them will flame out to nothing.

 

In conclusion, I really have no idea. If everyone from both sides reach their potential, it's the Cubs hands down, but the Sox already have a few guys currently achieving their potential, so it's almost not even a fair comparison.

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QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Aug 28, 2014 -> 07:30 AM)
Actually come to think of it, I've defended cubs here more than most, but there's no way you trade Sale and Abreu for the names listed in the op. The answer then should be the Sox.

 

 

Not necessarily. Teams can have several great players but the overall strength of the lineup is the importatnt thing. we have sale and abreu having great seasons but the team is still bad. But also , you have to factor in doing it versus potential. The Sox have 3 young players in Sale, Q and Abreu doing it and Avi and Eaton having pretty good showings . I look at the Red Sox and their 2 elite young players ( Bradley and Bogaerts) going into this year. Understanding both played key positions SS and CF but both had poor seasons

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QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 28, 2014 -> 12:48 AM)
Baez and Soler have very high bust probability. Right now, Baez is like an extreme version of Adam Dunn minus the ability to take a walk. Strikeout or home run.

 

The Sox have Sale, Quintana, Eaton, Avi and Abreu proving it in the major leagues. While the minors depth isn't as strong as the Cubs Anderson, Semien, Sanchez, Montas, Adams, Danish, Martinez, Ravelo, Rondon and even Davidson still are bringing some talent. Beck, Bassitt, and EJ could all be something still. Oh, then Rodon.

 

I think it's pretty clear that Baez is not ready for the majors. I think it would be a mistake for the Cubs to have him on the opening day roster next year. He clearly needs more time in the minors to work on cutting down the strikeouts. He is currently striking out in 45% of his PAs. That can never work, especially for a player like Baez who never walks.

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The White Sox are in better shape when one adds young veterans in with prospect lists. In addition, one can always make a trade or sign a free agent as an alternative to going the "deep ditch" route that the Cubs took. For example, the White Sox needed a young first baseman for the short and long haul, and they got Abreau. I think they need a left handed hitting outfielder and some relief pitchers, and they can go make a targeted push for those. In contrast, the Cubs are kind of unbalanced in their prospect list, and one can't just presume that they will be able to acquire all the pitching that they will need.

 

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Tsuyoshi Wada is 33. He's not apart of the future.

 

QUOTE (ron883 @ Aug 28, 2014 -> 07:55 AM)
The homerism in this thread is ridiculous lmao.

 

Why? The Sox have 3 legitimate top of the rotation pitchers. The Cubs have maybe one in Arrieta and I think you need to see him continue to pitch well into next year, as he's been a guy who was not very good up until this year. I don't doubt he can continue it, just that he needs to do it again. It's amazing that he's already 28 and has just under 4 years of service time.

 

If you want to talk about who has more talent and bigger name prospects, it's hard to deny the Cubs in that category, but given that the Sox have their top 3 rotation spots filled out for seemingly the next 6 years (plus another guy in Noesi who can be a 1-2 WAR back end starter) with guys like Abreu, Gillaspie, Eaton, and Garcia already apart of the core and guys like Semien, Sanchez, Rondon, Johnson, and a few others here and there, it would seem the Sox will be able to fill out the rest of their roster a lot easier than the Cubs.

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A few months ago I was working with a cub fan that just loved to talk about anything cub related. One day he asked what I thought about the the cubs prospects.

 

Cub fan : what do you think of our prospects

 

Me: I don't

 

Cub fan: ( confused look) what do you mean you don't?

 

Me: again, I don't

 

Cub fan: ( more confused now) I don't understand

 

Me: of course you don't. You know I'm a Sox fan so why would I give a f*** about the cubs prospects? Hence my response, I DONT. Meaning I don't think anything of them, those are prospects for your favorite team and not mine. I follow the Sox prospects, savy?

 

Cub fan: ( even more confused than ever) but why?

 

Me: (sigh) so is it supposed to rain this afternoon?

 

Not to take anything away from the cubs prospects but, I honestly could care less. Following one major league team and trying to keep up with its prospects is more than enough for me so forgive me for not answering the posted question.

 

Oh yeah, GO SOX! :gosox2: :headbang

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QUOTE (ron883 @ Aug 28, 2014 -> 07:55 AM)
The homerism in this thread is ridiculous lmao.

 

 

I agree with this completely. Go into the Cubs thread every once in awhile. It's borderline cringeworthy at times. I like what Hahn is doing. Theo and Jed have done a great job as well. I hope both teams set themselves up to be Central Division powerhouses again and baseball becomes relevant in this city again. The Cubs being really good and run properly is a good thing for the White Sox.

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QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Aug 27, 2014 -> 08:41 PM)
The question is future core. With the guys they've called up, plus Kris Bryant, gotta be the Cubs.

Agreed. Sox have the better pitchers obviously, but we'll see what Theo and Jed do this off season. Even with those prospects, they still have some attractive ones they can deal in the off season for pitching or go the FA route for a player(s) they like for the future. I like what Hahn has done for us though.

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