Better Future Core: Sox or Cubs?

[southsider2k5]

A few months ago I was working with a cub fan that just loved to talk about anything cub related. One day he asked what I thought about the the cubs prospects.

 

Cub fan : what do you think of our prospects

 

Me: I don't

 

Cub fan: ( confused look) what do you mean you don't?

 

Me: again, I don't

 

Cub fan: ( more confused now) I don't understand

 

Me: of course you don't. You know I'm a Sox fan so why would I give a f*** about the cubs prospects? Hence my response, I DONT. Meaning I don't think anything of them, those are prospects for your favorite team and not mine. I follow the Sox prospects, savy?

 

Cub fan: ( even more confused than ever) but why?

 

Me: (sigh) so is it supposed to rain this afternoon?

 

Not to take anything away from the cubs prospects but, I honestly could care less. Following one major league team and trying to keep up with its prospects is more than enough for me so forgive me for not answering the posted question.

 

Oh yeah, GO SOX!

 

/thread.

 

[ptatc]

Plus we're gonna add some type of positional badass this winter and maybe a pitcher too. Don't you think Hahn is going to add at least 1 more young, MLB-ready core piece this offseason?

 

+1 more for the sox soon.

 

 

We have the best pitcher and hitter in the game, arguably. Cubs have what?

I don't think the Sox are going to add a significant position player this off season. The only position where they may look at is LF. Everything else in in house for next year.

[southsider2k5]

I don't think the Sox are going to add a significant position player this off season. The only position where they may look at is LF. Everything else in in house for next year.

 

I'd bet on a big dollar position player being added.

[Rowand44]

The homerism in this thread is ridiculous lmao.

There's really not much homerism going on in this thread at all. I think you can be completely objective and say the Sox and you can be completely objective and say the Cubs, it really is a close call.

 

Hell, if you want to believe fangraphs you can say that the Sox have 3 of the top 50 most valuable players in the majors right now, that's a pretty awesome core in place just right there.

 

Like Buehrle>Wood said, I've also defended the Cubs rebuilding plan just as much as anyone around here but when you take everything into you can make a fair argument that the Sox have a better group of core players, just like you can make a fair argument that the Cubs have the better core.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Rowand44

[Quin]

I'd bet on a big dollar position player being added.

 

Only person I can think of is Chase Headley to DH, but I almost feel like the Sox may opt for cheap and give Wilkins a shot while using the extra bench spot to rotate in Micah Johnson (who if all goes right would be the 2B, with Sanchez as the utility and Semien in LF).

 

I think September might answer a lot of our questions.

[ptatc]

I'd bet on a big dollar position player being added.

Where do you think they will target? I can't see it in the IF with the prospects they have. CF and RF seem to be locked into Eaton and Garcia. The only postion would be LF.

[witesoxfan]

Only person I can think of is Chase Headley to DH, but I almost feel like the Sox may opt for cheap and give Wilkins a shot while using the extra bench spot to rotate in Micah Johnson (who if all goes right would be the 2B, with Sanchez as the utility and Semien in LF).

 

I think September might answer a lot of our questions.

 

Headley would definitely play 3B over Gillaspie.

 

I don't know that they will look towards the free agent market. The last two traditional free agents (6+ years of service time, contract expired) the Sox have brought in to be full time players on offense were Adam Dunn and Jeff Keppinger. Even when guys were available, they've stayed away from that route. Instead, they've brought players in via waivers and trade. I don't see why that would change.

[witesoxfan]

Where do you think they will target? I can't see it in the IF with the prospects they have. CF and RF seem to be locked into Eaton and Garcia. The only postion would be LF.

 

Catcher and DH. Catcher is not required, but I think it's something they'll definitely look at upgrading. I also think they'll look to add at least one bat. Headley was mentioned, and I think you could see that - bring in a guy who is a better defender than the Sox currently have at a position, say RF or 3B, and you can use that current starter as a DH and at the position on the opposite side of the field.

 

While we're talking about the offseason, I'd just like to mention that I am very curious to see what happens with Stanton.

[southsider2k5]

Where do you think they will target? I can't see it in the IF with the prospects they have. CF and RF seem to be locked into Eaton and Garcia. The only postion would be LF.

 

Listening to Hahn's talk about being willing to add a big dollar contract in a trade when he talked on the Score a week or two ago, I can easily envision a scenario where the Sox make a deal for a OF or DH type who has a large contract, to net the Sox their left handed power bat they will be lacking, and maybe some other pieces to go with it.

 

Some names that make sense to me? Josh Hamilton makes a ton of sense to me. Ryan Howard, BJ Upton, Matt Kemp also make sense. I am sure the deal will involve some level of cash, or maybe they figure out a way to work John Danks into the deal.

 

Taking what Hahn said, and then thinking about how the Sox are currently set up, if we are going to have a bad deal on the books, I think it makes more sense to have gamble on a hitter turning around, than John Danks turning around, especially with the way we seem to find starting pitching.

 

The other thing that keeps eating at me is the talk from the deadline about the Sox being really close to finishing a three way deal for someone they really liked, and are still hoping to finish. A teaser like that might be a hint at someone much younger, but I am still hoping some of our insiders can drop a little more info on who.

[southsider2k5]

Catcher and DH. Catcher is not required, but I think it's something they'll definitely look at upgrading. I also think they'll look to add at least one bat. Headley was mentioned, and I think you could see that - bring in a guy who is a better defender than the Sox currently have at a position, say RF or 3B, and you can use that current starter as a DH and at the position on the opposite side of the field.

 

While we're talking about the offseason, I'd just like to mention that I am very curious to see what happens with Stanton.

 

I wonder how many times the Sox have called the Marlins about him?

[witesoxfan]

I wonder how many times the Sox have called the Marlins about him?

 

One million times

[Rowand44]

One million times

999,999 times.

[Chisoxfn]

Would not trade because at least 3 Sox guys have actually proven they can deliver in the major leagues.

Echo those sentiments. Sale, Q, and Abreu have all proven it where as the Cubs really only have one guy who has proven it that is part of that young core.

[RockRaines]

The homerism in this thread is ridiculous lmao.

No, its mostly you not knowing what you are talking about.

[shysocks]

999,999 times.

One dollar.

 

But seriously, I'm sure Hahn has done his due diligence on Stanton. The Sox might have enough to get him, now that Rodon is in the picture, but the cost would be astronomical.

[southsider2k5]

One dollar.

 

But seriously, I'm sure Hahn has done his due diligence on Stanton. The Sox might have enough to get him, now that Rodon is in the picture, but the cost would be astronomical.

 

Every year closer he gets to that quarter of a billion dollar contract is going to knock a lot of his trade value down.

[witesoxfan]

Every year closer he gets to that quarter of a billion dollar contract is going to knock a lot of his trade value down.

 

The weird thing is that Stanton seems like the first guy they've ever seemingly contemplated keeping on a big contract, but I don't know that he wants to re-sign due to how they've treated their players in the past. It's hard to sign a long-term deal and have faith in ownership when they've shown absolutely 0 loyalty in the past. And, if he doesn't re-sign, then they've dug their own grave.

 

I think they can keep him next year and deal him following the season and still get a fantastic return so long as the acquiring team has a chance to re-sign him, but it will still likely be less than the return they get if they deal him this year.

[Dick Allen]

One dollar.

 

But seriously, I'm sure Hahn has done his due diligence on Stanton. The Sox might have enough to get him, now that Rodon is in the picture, but the cost would be astronomical.

I bet the Marlins would do it for Abreu straight up.

[caulfield12]

Headley would definitely play 3B over Gillaspie.

 

I don't know that they will look towards the free agent market. The last two traditional free agents (6+ years of service time, contract expired) the Sox have brought in to be full time players on offense were Adam Dunn and Jeff Keppinger. Even when guys were available, they've stayed away from that route. Instead, they've brought players in via waivers and trade. I don't see why that would change.

 

Why?

 

Conor's had a Top 30-40 (all of MLB) OPS (despite the lack of homers) for pretty much the entire season.

 

What about Headley says he's going to rebound playing next year in the AL? Certainly not his statistics in NY, where he should be putting up at least a 750ish OPS.

 

It makes no sense to bring in a guy that's going to get $8-10 million per year and already around that magical 30 year old mark where players now are declining without the PEDS to further their careers.

 

Victor Martinez is one of the few exceptions that comes to mind.

Edited August 28, 2014 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

Why?

 

Conor's had a Top 30-40 (all of MLB) OPS (despite the lack of homers) for pretty much the entire season.

 

What about Headley says he's going to rebound playing next year in the AL? Certainly not his statistics in NY, where he should be putting up at least a 750ish OPS.

 

It makes no sense to bring in a guy that's going to get $8-10 million per year and already around that magical 30 year old mark where players now are declining without the PEDS to further their careers.

 

Victor Martinez is one of the few exceptions that comes to mind.

You wrote all this and didn't mention a thing about "defense".

[witesoxfan]

Why?

 

Conor's had a Top 30-40 (all of MLB) OPS (despite the lack of homers) for pretty much the entire season.

 

What about Headley says he's going to rebound playing next year in the AL? Certainly not his statistics in NY, where he should be putting up at least a 750ish OPS.

 

It makes no sense to bring in a guy that's going to get $8-10 million per year and already around that magical 30 year old mark where players now are declining without the PEDS to further their careers.

 

Victor Martinez is one of the few exceptions that comes to mind.

 

Headley would play 3B, Gillaspie would DH. Headley is better defensive player than Gillaspie.

 

I also didn't suggest it, rather just stating that if he were brought in, he'd be the one to play 3B. I wouldn't be opposed because he's a fairly good player, but I wouldn't vouch for it either.

[Dick Allen]

Until one of these teams starts winning at a decent clip, whoever has the better "core" means nothing.

[caulfield12]

Echo those sentiments. Sale, Q, and Abreu have all proven it where as the Cubs really only have one guy who has proven it that is part of that young core.

 

Sure, but the big picture also magically changes again (in that 2015-18 window) when you add Scherzer/Shields/Lester to Rizzo, Castro, Arrieta, Rondon and all their other prospects.

 

 

[RockRaines]

Sure, but the big picture also magically changes again (in that 2015-18 window) when you add Scherzer/Shields/Lester to Rizzo, Castro, Arrieta, Rondon and all their other prospects.

While the Sox magically add nothing, right?

[caulfield12]

Headley would play 3B, Gillaspie would DH. Headley is better defensive player than Gillaspie.

 

That's just a marginal improvement over two positions, and when you consider the allocation of resources (let's say $30 million minimum for Headley, if not $40-50), it doesn't make a whole lotta sense. Especially when a lot of posters are already expecting a down/correction year from Conor, and we just don't know the effect of being a full-time DH would have on him or any younger player.

 

If you're going to do that, you should really double down and spend another $20-30 million on an MVP caliber player in Sandoval (or even Hanley Ramirez) and try to get him straightened out offensively when paired with the strength and conditioning guys/Hermie.

 

Or I'd rather spend the money you're spending on Headley for Billy Butler at DH, because I tend to think he's a much better bet for the next three seasons at USCF putting up some monster years. Chase at this point in his career just isn't a reliable middle-of-the-order hitter. As it stands right now, we don't have anyone that you can confidently put there with Abreu, not even Avisail.

Edited August 28, 2014 by caulfield12