2015 Offseason

[ILMOU]

I think a team really has to trust its OWN scouting in these particular cases, and the fact that current judgements are often based on minimal inputs. We've seen mis-scouting of Lexi, Puig and Abreu, among others. It's understandable.

[Dick Allen]

I think a team really has to trust its OWN scouting in these particular cases, and the fact that current judgements are often based on minimal inputs. We've seen mis-scouting of Lexi, Puig and Abreu, among others. It's understandable.

There was some speculation with Abreu that there was a lot of purposeful misinformation out there. It does make sense. If you don't have much on a guy, you probably are more influenced by what you hear, might as well throw some BS out there and see if anyone buys it.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Dick Allen

[Kyyle23]

Has anyone here heard anything about the availability of Korean third baseman Jeong Choi? Before the season, there was talk of him becoming a FA this offseason. Supposedly has Choo-like OBP skills with decent pop and glove. Checked his stats awhile back and it looks like he's played less games than his teammates (and not putting up the greatest #'s) so maybe dealing with injuries. Has been called the David Wright of Korea. He'll be 28 for next season.

 

Not sure if the org feels Conor's D is adequate at 3B, or if he'll be a platoon DH/1B or even LF down the road, or traded. The Davidson plan is currently shelved. This could be another possibility.

 

Does he have an military obligation like Choo did(and got out of)?

 

You have to think that gives any major league team pause

[The Ultimate Champion]

There was some speculation with Abreu that there was a lot of purposeful misinformation out there. It does make sense. If you don't have much on a guy, you probably are more influenced by what you hear, might as well throw some BS out there and see if anyone buys it.

Another thing to ponder is what it really says about the mainstream "scouting" types i.e. the guys that make prospect lists and so forth. Any of this stuff coming from those guys makes you wonder how great their access really is and how valuable their opinions really are.

 

If you are a Major League organization, it makes a lot of sense if you see a guy you really like to either 1) keep things totally under wraps, or 2) potentially spread disinformation, And if you spread disinfo it's probably more of an attempt to try to bring the price down. But under no circumstances would you ever want to rant and rave about how much you love the guy and tip your hand, unless of course you knew you weren't going to sign the guy and just wanted to drive up the price for your competition. But even that would be dumb because every time a Cuban player signs a big deal and makes it look like a bargain, everybody else's future price just goes up, so you'd be shooting yourself in the foot really.

[The Ultimate Champion]

I think it would be interesting too look for a lefty reliever in Japan or something. If we found someone I'm not sure we'd be willing to pay enough to make it worth his while to come over here, but it would be kind of an outside the box idea. I wonder who/how many people the Sox rely on when it comes to scouting international players that are *not* coming out of LA?

[caulfield12]

I think it would be interesting too look for a lefty reliever in Japan or something. If we found someone I'm not sure we'd be willing to pay enough to make it worth his while to come over here, but it would be kind of an outside the box idea. I wonder who/how many people the Sox rely on when it comes to scouting international players that are *not* coming out of LA?

 

Not enough....kW supposedly scouted Tad iguchi via video.....not sure about Takatsu.

Other than a Korean pitcher who got a decent-sized bonus about five or six years ago the org has been bereft...but just look how many Asian pitchers the Red Sox have gotten decent mileage out of.

Edited September 12, 2014 by caulfield12

[ILMOU]

I think it would be interesting too look for a lefty reliever in Japan or something. If we found someone I'm not sure we'd be willing to pay enough to make it worth his while to come over here, but it would be kind of an outside the box idea. I wonder who/how many people the Sox rely on when it comes to scouting international players that are *not* coming out of LA?

Not enough....kW supposedly scouted Tad iguchi via video.....not sure about Takatsu.

Other than a Korean pitcher who got a decent-sized bonus about five or six years ago the org has been bereft...but just look how many Asian pitchers the Red Sox have gotten decent mileage out of.

Exactly. Seems like it's a market we can't afford to neglect, and having one is bound to help in any FA pursuit of the Kuroda, Tanaka and Maeda's of the world.

 

I want them to pursue Kuroda, if it's even a possibility.

 

Does he have an military obligation like Choo did(and got out of)?

 

You have to think that gives any major league team pause

 

Good point on the military service - it's a big deal to get out of it, but I have to believe that it's been considered. The fact that I haven't heard anything in months makes me believe it's not happening, but if anyone knows anything about Choi, much appreciated. He's got a MLB.com page if that means anything, probably not.

Edited September 12, 2014 by Stan Bahnsen

[LDF]

Dayan Viciedo was a great prospect coming out of Cuba, I'd say at least as celebrated as Soler was if not more. Soler came later & right before the new CBA limits on INTL FA were to take effect, which is why he got so much more money. Soler was also more of an atheletic prospect, but Viciedo was a 3B prospect then who was touted as a truly elite all-around offensive talent. Obviously that hasn't happened.

 

OTOH Alexei Ramirez was a borderline UT player and nothing more. Jose Abreu had a slider-speed bat and it was doubtful he could handle the inside pitch. Puig was going to need a lot of time in the minors. None of that was true.

 

But then the other guy the Cubs signed with Soler was Conception who was a bust. Then you have the other guy we really wanted out of Cuba who the Royals signed and busted (forget his name ATM but he was on our radar too).

 

Chapmann has worked out great.

 

But then you have the guy IIRC the Rays got, the switch hitting 1B who received some comps to Kendry Morales. Morales worked but this guy didn't make it. I think this was Leslie Anderson IIRC? Got some Darin Erstad comps too I think but in a good way as a strong defensive OF & 1B not so much as a s***ty grinderballer.

 

Also Leonys Martin in Texas, IIRC he was thought of as a 4th OF. He has done well for them & he's definitely a starter. He wasn't a big name target then but a lot of teams would have entered the bidding had they known he'd turn out the way he did.

 

Also Iglesias with the Tigers, he was a defense-only guy that Boston signed as a reach. And they were right about the defense part, but he also was the centerpiece of the Peavy deal on their end and the Tigers wanted him so bad they sent Avi Garcia to a division rival for him. Not bad for a "reach" signing that wasn't supposed to be a factor.

 

In short, take all these reports with a grain of salt. As a rule I love the way the Cuban players play. I love the way they approach the game for the most part. There's a lot of talent over there & I will trust our scouts on this guy when they watch his workouts. The first thing I'd do (and I'm sure this has already been done) is ask Abreu about this guy. If Abreu thinks he's good enough to hit alongside him in the order & if Abreu thinks he's a fit in the clubhouse and so on, then we should be prepared to spend good money to sign this guy.

 

excellent rpt. many thanks

 

[LDF]

Has anyone here heard anything about the availability of Korean third baseman Jeong Choi? Before the season, there was talk of him becoming a FA this offseason. Supposedly has Choo-like OBP skills with decent pop and glove. Checked his stats awhile back and it looks like he's played less games than his teammates (and not putting up the greatest #'s) so maybe dealing with injuries. Has been called the David Wright of Korea. He'll be 28 for next season.

 

Not sure if the org feels Conor's D is adequate at 3B, or if he'll be a platoon DH/1B or even LF down the road, or traded. The Davidson plan is currently shelved. This could be another possibility.

 

yeah, I been waiting for info on him. I show two video's of him during the season in the catch all sports.

1 was a hr that cleared the ballpark. 2 was the horrible slide that could've broken his neck.

 

they took the slide and made a comedy of it. at first I did too, then realize how bad it was. he is an

interesting prospect.

[chitownsportsfan]

Viciedo honestly looked better when he was just coming up then he does now. I have no idea what happened but his swing is actually worse now than in 2008. Maybe it was the wrist injury but his top hand action is MIA and has been for a couple of years.

 

SSS did a look at Viciedo today and I will say in two words what they tried to say in 2000: he sucks. His "power" is really just an artifact of "swing hard in case you hit it". Now that works fine for some guys but Viciedo can't generate any power with max effort swing and his max effort swing sucks. He pops so many balls up because he drops his back shoulder and instead of powering through the ball he is off balance.

 

Now obviously if there were easy fixes they'd have been made but Tank just isn't that talented of a hitter, or player for that matter.

[LDF]

I think a team really has to trust its OWN scouting in these particular cases, and the fact that current judgements are often based on minimal inputs. We've seen mis-scouting of Lexi, Puig and Abreu, among others. It's understandable.

 

scouting rpt is one thing, luck and fulfill of potential is like anything, luck.

[LDF]

org relies of mainstream scouting rpt to cut down on the cost of seeing and scouting

on each person. can you imagine how much it will be to scout each prospect in, lets say

a draft rated player? how bout the cost to see all the Asian prospects?

 

having the showcase for these players coming fro Cuba may be the way to see it, however

it is still a gamble and luck.

[GGajewski18]

I've been thinking, if the rumored player that we were suppose to get in Pedro Alvarez was/is true, I have a feeling we could get him for very cheap.

 

He has not played at all lately with the Pirates during the most important time of the year, how would you guys feel about getting him for relatively cheap?

 

What would you give up?

[Vance Law]

I've been thinking, if the rumored player that we were suppose to get in Pedro Alvarez was/is true, I have a feeling we could get him for very cheap.

 

He has not played at all lately with the Pirates during the most important time of the year, how would you guys feel about getting him for relatively cheap?

 

What would you give up?

 

He is basically a worse Adam Dunn.

 

I don't know why we'd be interested.

[LDF]

 

waiver pick up possibilities red patterson 27, according to rumor site, Patterson is

on it. I like this player as a pickup.

[Vance Law]

You know who would've been nice to pick up for nothing in March? JD Martinez

[caulfield12]

You know who would've been nice to pick up for nothing in March? JD Martinez

 

He was essentially de Aza three years later....of course, knowing to dump Alejandro and tank before the season....maybe deaza seemed superfluous but we needed to give viciedo this season

 

Martinez has good speed but isn't a great fielder...that said it would have been a huge improvement...even rajai Davis for that matter

Edited September 13, 2014 by caulfield12

[greg775]

He was essentially de Aza three years later....of course, knowing to dump Alejandro and tank before the season....maybe deaza seemed superfluous but we needed to give viciedo this season

 

Martinez has good speed but isn't a great fielder...that said it would have been a huge improvement...even rajai Davis for that matter

 

DeAza had that two-homer game recently and a great doubleheader yesterday. Makes me mad he didn't bring it with the Sox. Maybe we have good players but they just don't flourish in Chicago for unknown reasons. Should make it easier to trade Viciedo.

[LDF]

what surprise me of 2014 season.

 

what I am looking for is how certain players performed during the season. I was totally surprise

on how DV did the whole season. except for the low avg, his stats are well ..... here the link

and you decide.

 

I also look at how he performed during the previous yrs and I did the split for the months as well

again I am surprise at the results.

 

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/team/playe...l='ALL'

 

I also looked at J. Danks and how he pitched this yr. that is for another time.

[BaconOnAStick]

I don't think the John Danks Problem is for another time. His ineptitude as a starter is very likely the largest barrier for the White Sox to contend next year for the Central. That's the most pressing issue (aside from pen, which I assume will be taken care of) this team has.

[LDF]

I don't think the John Danks Problem is for another time. His ineptitude as a starter is very likely the largest barrier for the White Sox to contend next year for the Central. That's the most pressing issue (aside from pen, which I assume will be taken care of) this team has.

 

well with Danks, I was looking at the splits and I notice that he has and appears to pitch

close to 190 innings. his aug and sept record are horrible, but I am wondering if that might be

b/c of a tired arm.

[Eminor3rd]

DeAza had that two-homer game recently and a great doubleheader yesterday. Makes me mad he didn't bring it with the Sox. Maybe we have good players but they just don't flourish in Chicago for unknown reasons. Should make it easier to trade Viciedo.

 

De Aza just had a bad year. He was perfectly fine before that. Solid average all around player.

[greg775]

De Aza just had a bad year. He was perfectly fine before that. Solid average all around player.

 

I guess you are right, but I think he had 2 bad years, right? This year and last year.

I think he's had a two homer game in Baltimore as well as a game in which he had 2 triples, which is probably a team record. I'm assuming they love him in Baltimore right now. Like I was saying though, if he becomes a stud leadoff hitter/outfielder, it's time to question the Sox ability to coach/motivate players. I mean, seriously. DeAza like somebody likes to say was a "bucket of suck" for two seasons in a row in Chicago.

[The Ultimate Champion]

I guess you are right, but I think he had 2 bad years, right? This year and last year.

I think he's had a two homer game in Baltimore as well as a game in which he had 2 triples, which is probably a team record. I'm assuming they love him in Baltimore right now. Like I was saying though, if he becomes a stud leadoff hitter/outfielder, it's time to question the Sox ability to coach/motivate players. I mean, seriously. DeAza like somebody likes to say was a "bucket of suck" for two seasons in a row in Chicago.

He has a lot more ability than he showed here, but he was just the prototypical change of scenery candidate. I think he's definitely a better player than Dunn or Beckham but the return didn't show it. And really it shouldn't have, he just played like s*** here.

 

Basically he had trade rumors swirling around him for 2 straight years really and just got worse. He started this year in a platoon role and was already trying to hit home runs in his first game (he did hit some early HRs but thta's obviously the wrong approach for DeAza... DJ even talked about it on the radio at the time, saying the HRs were nice but that's not his game and wondered if it would affect him later, well obviously it did).

 

DeAza had some pressure on him & probably a lot of that pressure he put on himself. Some players just can't play through that stuff and it looks like he is one of them. Getting traded probably took a lot of that off him and now he can just go out there and play. It's actually not a bad situation for him at all. He was going to be a non-tender off a s***ty team coming off a s***ty season and at that point he'd have had to settle for a low base 1 year guarantee as part of someone's bench most likely, but who knows, now he's got some playing time with a team that for all we know could go all the way. He has an opportunity to play for a contract. Look at some of the money players like Cody Ross and Angel Pagan have gotten, both of whom were kind of in that DeAza type territory for a while as starting caliber players that you really didn't know if you wanted to start or have as more of a rich man's 4th OF. Postseason success leads to added interest & possibly bigger paydays, so maybe he'll set himself up for a 2-year deal or a 1-year deal similar in pay to what the Sox would have non-tendered him over. At least he has a shot in Baltimore, he didn't have a shot at anything here.

[The Ultimate Champion]

^Anyway I guess my point is, there's nothing "we" could have done. It was DeAza's head stuck up DeAza's ass, not anyone else's. DeAza was the only one who could have righted the ship and obviously it took a trade getting him the hell away from this team to allow him to do that, so whatever, good for him but I doubt we did anything poorly. Todd Steverson is the greatest thing ever, obviously he did nothing wrong.