Gillaspie vs. Flowers

[Dunt]

As of today, they have the same WAR despite having two very different seasons. Does this suggest that we have been underrating Flowers this season or overrating the season Gillaspie has had?

[Goober]

I'll go with C, WAR is pretty dumb

[shysocks]

As of today, they have the same WAR despite having two very different seasons. Does this suggest that we have been underrating Flowers this season or overrating the season Gillaspie has had?

I'd lean more towards underrating Flowers. His streakiness makes him harder to evaluate objectively. That, plus Gillaspie struggling in August, and we are where we are.

[T R U]

Gillaspie has been hot garbage since the all star break, yet is continually praised as some great player around here. Slow clap for his surge to begin the year, now everyone take a step back and realize hes not that good and what we've got from him recently is more what he is than the .330 hitter to start the year.

[witesoxfan]

Gillaspie is weak defensively and he has not hit as well late into the season. Beyond that, it's easy to overlook the production, both offensively (even if below average) and defensively that Tyler Flowers has provided. Frankly, in today's game, if you have a catcher that can play close to 75% of the games behind the plate and remain a non-blackhole at the plate, you have a fairly valuable commodity. That he's also been productive defensively is an added bonus.

 

I think, if Semien shows he's good defensively at 3B, Gillaspie is going to be a guy that sees significant time at DH next season. Not to say he won't play 3B or 1B next year (making the assumption, of course, that he'll be with the team), but if there's a better alternative at 3B, you go that route.

 

 

[caulfield12]

Gillaspie is weak defensively and he has not hit as well late into the season. Beyond that, it's easy to overlook the production, both offensively (even if below average) and defensively that Tyler Flowers has provided. Frankly, in today's game, if you have a catcher that can play close to 75% of the games behind the plate and remain a non-blackhole at the plate, you have a fairly valuable commodity. That he's also been productive defensively is an added bonus.

 

I think, if Semien shows he's good defensively at 3B, Gillaspie is going to be a guy that sees significant time at DH next season. Not to say he won't play 3B or 1B next year (making the assumption, of course, that he'll be with the team), but if there's a better alternative at 3B, you go that route.

 

I think the odds of winning the AL Central are actually higher with Adam Dunn as DH than Conor Gillaspie in 2015.

[witesoxfan]

Gillaspie has been hot garbage since the all star break, yet is continually praised as some great player around here. Slow clap for his surge to begin the year, now everyone take a step back and realize hes not that good and what we've got from him recently is more what he is than the .330 hitter to start the year.

 

He's perfectly fine against RHP. He's virtually useless against LHP.

[witesoxfan]

I think the odds of winning the AL Central are actually higher with Adam Dunn as DH than Conor Gillaspie in 2015.

 

Nevermind that Gillaspie is probably just as good, if not better, against RHP.

[T R U]

He's perfectly fine against RHP. He's virtually useless against LHP.

 

Hes perfectly fine as bench player and a guy to start against RHP. Not as a DH for a team that's trying to contend. Hes a .250 hitter with no power. Its cringe worthy to think about him as the DH next season. I would absolutely rather have Dunn.

[Eminor3rd]

I think it illustrates two things:

 

1. We have overrated Gillaspie because of his hot start and because we forget that his below average defense really makes a difference. I'm not saying he;s been bad, just that he hasn't been all April/May the entire year.

 

2. It's a reminder of how important and still mysteriously underrated the Catcher's role is on defense. The bar for offense is just so low.

 

To me, since Flowers has improved his defense to the point of "some people think he's actually really good," he could make a really solid backup. But it's the most obvious opportunity for an upgrade on the roster.

 

Gillaspie, I think, is different in that he can hold that position down for a few years if we need him to do so, and I won't be bothered at all. But there's a better long-term solution there. Unfotunately it may not be Davidson, but we can do better.

[witesoxfan]

Hes perfectly fine as bench player and a guy to start against RHP. Not as a DH for a team that's trying to contend. Hes a .250 hitter with no power. Its cringe worthy to think about him as the DH next season. I would absolutely rather have Dunn.

 

As a starting DH against RHP, he's just fine. His defense doesn't hurt you and he's solid offensively. If he can even be average offensively at 3B, he's probably a 2.0 WAR player, which is valuable enough.

 

I do agree he shouldn't be starting full time, but if he gets all of the starts against righties, I wouldn't be upset.

[T R U]

As a starting DH against RHP, he's just fine. His defense doesn't hurt you and he's solid offensively. If he can even be average offensively at 3B, he's probably a 2.0 WAR player, which is valuable enough.

 

I do agree he shouldn't be starting full time, but if he gets all of the starts against righties, I wouldn't be upset.

 

Yes, but my thinking was id hope we wouldn't have to play match ups with our DH

[Eminor3rd]

Gillaspie is weak defensively and he has not hit as well late into the season. Beyond that, it's easy to overlook the production, both offensively (even if below average) and defensively that Tyler Flowers has provided. Frankly, in today's game, if you have a catcher that can play close to 75% of the games behind the plate and remain a non-blackhole at the plate, you have a fairly valuable commodity. That he's also been productive defensively is an added bonus.

 

I think, if Semien shows he's good defensively at 3B, Gillaspie is going to be a guy that sees significant time at DH next season. Not to say he won't play 3B or 1B next year (making the assumption, of course, that he'll be with the team), but if there's a better alternative at 3B, you go that route.

 

Sorry for not reading your response and typing out essentially the exact same thing two posts later.

[shysocks]

Yes, but my thinking was id hope we wouldn't have to play match ups with our DH

A lot of teams play matchups with their DH now. It might be the better way to build a roster if you're lacking David Ortiz or Victor Martinez to just plant in the lineup and mash.

 

Why are you so convinced Gillaspie is a .250 hitter?

[Balta1701]

Yes, but my thinking was id hope we wouldn't have to play match ups with our DH

It would be great if Davidson, Semien, and Wilkins all worked out as MLB level contributors in addition to Gillaspie because that really would set up some natural platoons along with a deep bench.

[witesoxfan]

Sorry for not reading your response and typing out essentially the exact same thing two posts later.

 

Repeat until they understand

[T R U]

A lot of teams play matchups with their DH now. It might be the better way to build a roster if you're lacking David Ortiz or Victor Martinez to just plant in the lineup and mash.

 

Why are you so convinced Gillaspie is a .250 hitter?

 

Why are you so convinced hes not? Just look at his body of work over his time in the majors. Im not going to look at a month of hitting .394 and say the guys awesome. He hit .245 last year and has hit .242 since the all star break. He had two months where he hit .394 and .333, those are outliers.

[witesoxfan]

Why are you so convinced hes not? Just look at his body of work over his time in the majors. Im not going to look at a month of hitting .394 and say the guys awesome. He hit .245 last year and has hit .242 since the all star break. He had two months where he hit .394 and .333, those are outliers.

 

It's best to say that he's good against RHP and virtually useless against LHP. It's the best simple way of defining his body of work in the majors thus far.

[T R U]

It's best to say that he's good against RHP and virtually useless against LHP. It's the best simple way of defining his body of work in the majors thus far.

 

Cant argue that.

[shysocks]

Why are you so convinced hes not? Just look at his body of work over his time in the majors. Im not going to look at a month of hitting .394 and say the guys awesome. He hit .245 last year and has hit .242 since the all star break.

His time in the majors includes 29 games in SF that you can basically write off, one year with the Sox at .245, and 80% of another year at .295. He was consistently in the .280-.290 range in the minors. Looking at that and penciling him in as a .250 hitter for life seems like an unfair assessment to me.

 

He had two months where he hit .394 and .333, those are outliers.

Why isn't his .177 last June an outlier? That month pulled his end-of-season average down 12 points.

You can always find weird months. Bottom line, he's hit .270 as a White Sox and I don't understand what makes 2013 the real Gillaspie and 2014 the fluke.

[The Wiz]

While he has cooled off considerably since August, I think if you watched a lot of the games you'll see that he's been hitting a lot of line drives at guys.

 

Personally, even if he winds up being only a .275 hitter with 10-15 HR power, he is still a good bat to have your team because he's a solid contact guy and has a good short line drive swing that will cause him to go on steaks where everything he hits finds a hole.

[T R U]

His time in the majors includes 29 games in SF that you can basically write off, one year with the Sox at .245, and 80% of another year at .295. He was consistently in the .280-.290 range in the minors. Looking at that and penciling him in as a .250 hitter for life seems like an unfair assessment to me.

 

 

Why isn't his .177 last June an outlier? That month pulled his end-of-season average down 12 points.

You can always find weird months. Bottom line, he's hit .270 as a White Sox and I don't understand what makes 2013 the real Gillaspie and 2014 the fluke.

 

Him being at .295 right now means nothing to me. He started the season unbelievably hot and has since faded into a .240 hitter since the all star break. I don't care if his avg ends up being .290 because that doesn't tell the whole story. Its inflated from two months of hitting .330 and .394, numbers that he has a good chance of never reproducing. Its more telling that he hit .245 his first year with the sox, and has hit .240 since roughly the first half of the season. I don't think its unfair at all to view him as a .250 hitter.

 

If hes going to help this team its going to be as a situational player against RHP, I don't care to see him as a starting 3B or DH. He doesn't have any power, and outside of a few months hasn't really shown to be an everyday bat. 2014 first half Gillaspie was a fluke, his second half numbers seem to be more indicative to the kind of player he really is. I don't think that's an unfair assessment at all.

[Chicago White Sox]

Where can I get platoon stats on Conor pre and post all-star break?

 

Is it possible he's been facing more LHP in the second half?

[shysocks]

Him being at .295 right now means nothing to me. He started the season unbelievably hot and has since faded into a .240 hitter since the all star break. I don't care if his avg ends up being .290 because that doesn't tell the whole story. Its inflated from two months of hitting .330 and .394, numbers that he has a good chance of never reproducing. Its more telling that he hit .245 his first year with the sox, and has hit .240 since roughly the first half of the season. I don't think its unfair at all to view him as a .250 hitter.

I'm sorry it means nothing to you, because it's actually his current batting average and it does a better job of telling the whole story than the 42 games since the break in which you're placing so much stock. If we're gonna rely so much on monthly splits, he also had months at .302 and .264 alongside the .330 and .394, so now we're looking at one month under .250. Evidently that's the only one that counts.

 

This reminds me of people arguing that John Danks isn't so bad if you ignore his five or six worst starts. It's true, but those starts happened, they're part of the record, and now they're data points for trying to predict future performance. Same thing here with Gillaspie. Could he hit .250 for the rest of his life? Absolutely. He could also hit .300. An objective guess is probably right in the middle.

 

I agree he shouldn't face lefties, there's no argument, but I quibble with the statement that he has no power. .138 ISO puts him 91st of 152 qualified hitters. You can do a lot worse.

[The Wiz]

I couldn't care less if he hits 0 homers for the rest of his career as long as he continues to hit line drives and be a .290+ hitter

Edited September 4, 2014 by The Wiz