Line-up protection....here comes the expected article, replacing Dunn

[caulfield12]

http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/white-...&ocid=yahoo

 

It's obvious that Ventura's not throwing the sabre/advanced stats world anything to show that he's familiar with their orthodoxy...this is "old school" boilerplate baseball lexicon if ever there was.

[spiderman]

What free agent options are there besides Victor Martinez if they are looking to add a veteran?

[spiderman]

It's too early to guess payroll, but if they have $46M committed next season, what will that be after arbitration?

 

Do they have enough payroll flexibility to add a proven run producer, an innings eater veteran starter for a #3 slot in the rotation and 1-2 bullpen arms, possibly a closer?

 

That seems like a lot to do and eats into the payroll flexibility that the White Sox created.

 

Not what I want them to do, but it does appear possible that they may be more active in free agency.

[Dick Allen]

http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/white-...&ocid=yahoo

 

It's obvious that Ventura's not throwing the sabre/advanced stats world anything to show that he's familiar with their orthodoxy...this is "old school" boilerplate baseball lexicon if ever there was.

I know you like to hop on a bandwagon when ripping people and are hoping this thread turns into a Ventura doesn't understand saber stuff bashing, but one thing you failed to mention was Hahn, the darling the saber crowd, said the exact same thing in the link.

[LDF]

It's too early to guess payroll, but if they have $46M committed next season, what will that be after arbitration?

 

Do they have enough payroll flexibility to add a proven run producer, an innings eater veteran starter for a #3 slot in the rotation and 1-2 bullpen arms, possibly a closer?

 

That seems like a lot to do and eats into the payroll flexibility that the White Sox created.

 

Not what I want them to do, but it does appear possible that they may be more active in free agency.

 

I like what is being said, but I would like to question, I think and I may be wrong on the number, the

number is more than 60 mil. didn't another poster run down the salary?

 

again, pls don't take it wrong, as I said I like what you wrote.

[cabiness42]

It's too early to guess payroll, but if they have $46M committed next season, what will that be after arbitration?

 

Do they have enough payroll flexibility to add a proven run producer, an innings eater veteran starter for a #3 slot in the rotation and 1-2 bullpen arms, possibly a closer?

 

That seems like a lot to do and eats into the payroll flexibility that the White Sox created.

 

Not what I want them to do, but it does appear possible that they may be more active in free agency.

 

Somebody please correct my errors, but this is what I have:

 

Guaranteed:

Keppinger $3.5M

Konerko $1M

Danks $14.25M

Ramirez $10M

Abreu $7M

Sale $6M

Quintana $1M

 

Arbitration eligible (salaries estimated):

Belisario $4.5M

Viciedo $4M

Flowers $2M

Jones $1M

 

I feel fairly confident that Belisario gets non-tendered, so that is $49.75M to fill 8 roster spots.

Edited September 9, 2014 by HickoryHuskers

[caulfield12]

I know you like to hop on a bandwagon when ripping people and are hoping this thread turns into a Ventura doesn't understand saber stuff bashing, but one thing you failed to mention was Hahn, the darling the saber crowd, said the exact same thing in the link.

 

 

Who ever said he was the darling of the saber crowd?

 

The White Sox are pretty much firmly in the middle, with the "old school" Kenny Williams and "old school" coaching staff, combined with the newer school approach of Hahn.

 

Avisail Garcia is hardly a darling to those people, for example...although Eaton and Abreu would have to be considered the feathers in his cap so far, he's only 40-45% of the way home, with a long ways to go still remaining. And many things could STILL and probably will go wrong.

 

 

Everyone has their favorites, do they not? Just like you could universally be expected to be anti-Don Cooper or pro-Gordon Beckham until the bitter end.

Edited September 9, 2014 by caulfield12

[lasttriptotulsa]

Baseball Reference keeps a nice payroll chart that goes 6 years out. Just factoring in the guaranteed contract, using averages for the arbitration guys, and filling the rest of the roster with pre-arbitration guys, the Sox basically have $64.4 million committed for next year. I have to think that leaves a lot of money to spend.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CH...-salaries.shtml

[lasttriptotulsa]

Somebody please correct my errors, but this is what I have:

 

Guaranteed:

Keppinger $3.5M

Konerko $1M

Danks $14.25M

Ramirez $10M

Abreu $7M

Sale $6M

Quintana $1M

 

Arbitration eligible (salaries estimated):

Belisario $4.5M

Viciedo $4M

Flowers $2M

Jones $1M

 

I feel fairly confident that Belisario gets non-tendered, so that is $49.75M to fill 8 roster spots.

 

Keppinger is $4.5 million, Quintana should have enough service time to be awarded Super 2 which ups his salary to $3.4 million.

 

[cabiness42]

Keppinger is $4.5 million, Quintana should have enough service time to be awarded Super 2 which ups his salary to $3.4 million.

 

Thank you. I just now noticed the fine print in Quintana's contract, and he is indeed almost certain to qualify for Super 2.

[thxfrthmmrs]

BR is a great resource to get a quick snapshot of Sox payroll for next year.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CH...-salaries.shtml

 

In a nutshell, with the committed salary and pre-arb and arbitration deals, Sox should have around $56 mil on their payroll (let's assuming they will not go through arbitration with Viciedo and Belisario).

 

Realistically, their final payroll will be around $90 mil, giving them $34 mil to spend. But if they decide to be aggressive and go all out, sources say they can afford a payroll slightly over $100 mil, giving them close to $50 mil to spend. But judging by the team's history of free agency spending, that's not going to be realistic. And I think the salary of the high draft pick will be factored in here somehow.

[Eminor3rd]

If there's nothing good to buy, I wouldn't assume the payroll will reach 90m. It was 64m this year. It'll go up for sure.

[thxfrthmmrs]

The payroll was around $85 mil this year, as the BR figures does not include the contracts traded away. The Sox will spend money to bring the payroll back up to around that range, we just don't know which direction they want to go with this, i.e. buying low on Masterson and others or bring in James Shields

[Balta1701]

The payroll was around $85 mil this year, as the BR figures does not include the contracts traded away. The Sox will spend money to bring the payroll back up to around that range, we just don't know which direction they want to go with this, i.e. buying low on Masterson and others or bring in James Shields

The reality of course is that if the Sox's current payroll is just under $65 million with a Quintana bonus in there, and the payroll is going to move up to ~ $85 million, the argument against James Shields is that they're not going to sign just James Shields and leave no money to do anything else. Since Shields probably will be above $15 mil per, that's your message right there

[southsider2k5]

The reality of course is that if the Sox's current payroll is just under $65 million with a Quintana bonus in there, and the payroll is going to move up to ~ $85 million, the argument against James Shields is that they're not going to sign just James Shields and leave no money to do anything else. Since Shields probably will be above $15 mil per, that's your message right there

 

And Rick Hahn said almost exactly this the other day, in much more vague and less name dropping terms. Talked about spreading that money out over a half a dozen guys, instead of just two, IIRC.

[Eminor3rd]

The payroll was around $85 mil this year, as the BR figures does not include the contracts traded away. The Sox will spend money to bring the payroll back up to around that range, we just don't know which direction they want to go with this, i.e. buying low on Masterson and others or bring in James Shields

 

Ah, thxfrthclrfctn

[thxfrthmmrs]

The reality of course is that if the Sox's current payroll is just under $65 million with a Quintana bonus in there, and the payroll is going to move up to ~ $85 million, the argument against James Shields is that they're not going to sign just James Shields and leave no money to do anything else. Since Shields probably will be above $15 mil per, that's your message right there

 

How much is the Quintana bonus? I am not aware of a significant bonus amount due to Q next year. Either way, I have Sox at $56 mil currently with the guys likely to be brought back in arbitration. Meaning they will have $34 mil to spend to reach $90 mil. Even if they go the Shields route, they can afford him along with a couple other quality guys. I won't rule out that possibility just yet.

[shysocks]

How much is the Quintana bonus? I am not aware of a significant bonus amount due to Q next year. Either way, I have Sox at $56 mil currently with the guys likely to be brought back in arbitration. Meaning they will have $34 mil to spend to reach $90 mil. Even if they go the Shields route, they can afford him along with a couple other quality guys. I won't rule out that possibility just yet.

Assuming the Quintana bonus refers to the way his contract escalates if he would qualify for arbitration. $1M next year without it, $3.4M with it.

[thxfrthmmrs]

Assuming the Quintana bonus refers to the way his contract escalates if he would qualify for arbitration. $1M next year without it, $3.4M with it.

 

The $56M estimate includes $3.4M dued to Q. I do not know where the $65M figure comes from

[cabiness42]

The $56M estimate includes $3.4M dued to Q. I do not know where the $65M figure comes from

 

The $65M figure comes from assigning an average pre-arbitration salary to the rest of the roster spots that don't belong to arbitration-eligible players or players under contract. So if you sign a FA or trade for a player under contract, you add that figure to the payroll but then you also subtract $600K or so for the pre-arb player whose roster spot he takes.

 

Also, the total listed for the Sox for 2015 assumes that Belisario will be offered arbitration and I find that highly unlikely.

[2nd_city_saint787]

Any guesses on what it would take to get Justin Morneau? He's 33, has 2 more years on his contract, and is having a real good year.

 

I've read where they would like to move Rosario to 1B.

 

 

[witesoxfan]

Any guesses on what it would take to get Justin Morneau? He's 33, has 2 more years on his contract, and is having a real good year.

 

I've read where they would like to move Rosario to 1B.

 

Not sure that Morneau is the type of player the Sox should target. He has limited usefulness as he's relegated entirely to 1B or DH, he's older, and he's a rough slide or a trip from likely having his career ended.

[caulfield12]

Belisario's definitely gone, not offered the opportunity to return.

 

Viciedo and Nate Jones are question marks at the moment.

 

Flowers will stay.

 

 

I guess it also depends on how accountants want to allocate Abreu's signing bonus...all monies into 2014, spread out over multiple years, etc.

[cabiness42]

Belisario's definitely gone, not offered the opportunity to return.

 

Viciedo and Nate Jones are question marks at the moment.

 

Flowers will stay.

 

 

I guess it also depends on how accountants want to allocate Abreu's signing bonus...all monies into 2014, spread out over multiple years, etc.

 

Abreu's signing bonus was paid when he signed. Kind of odd how that works.

 

[thxfrthmmrs]

Nor do I think Viciedo will be back. Without the roster holds accounted for, Sox have $56 mil committed on 17 players. And I expect 3 spots to be filled by Wilkins, Sanchez and Snodgress. Meaning Sox should have $32 mil to spend on 5 players to reach a fair estimate of $90 mil payroll.