Ray Rice Cut and Suspended Indefinitely

[Swingandalongonetoleft]

I can't imagine this not being appealed by Rice/Player's Union before too long.

[iamshack]

Misguided fairness? What the hell is the point of a protocol if you're just going to ignore it? They handed down the punishment and then because a video leaked they scrapped that in favor of something. That's bulls***, even if Rice deserves it.

Technically, they aren't outside of the protocol, are they? Didn't the policy give them the ability to suspend someone for longer depending on some other factors?

 

Besides, this occurred prior to the protocol...in fact, it was obviously the reason the protocol was created in the first place.

[southsider2k5]

But this isn't a felony because there was no conviction. In all other cases they wait for the legal system to take it's course, just like the guy in San Francisco. Why is it up to the NFL to provide justice?

 

No workplace should want to be associated with this sort of behavior. I have no problem with someone losing their job for it. In any business, the employees of a company are a large part of their image. Getting rid of people who don't fit that image does not bother me in the least.

[southsider2k5]

I can't imagine this not being appealed by Rice/Player's Union before too long.

 

This falls outside of the CBA.

[Jenksismyhero]

Technically, they aren't outside of the protocol, are they? Didn't the policy give them the ability to suspend someone for longer depending on some other factors?

 

Besides, this occurred prior to the protocol...in fact, it was obviously the reason the protocol was created in the first place.

 

I thought it was 6 games for a first offender. I guess technically "indefinite" could be 6, but they better decide that quickly.

 

[ptatc]

No workplace should want to be associated with this sort of behavior. I have no problem with someone losing their job for it. In any business, the employees of a company are a large part of their image. Getting rid of people who don't fit that image does not bother me in the least.

I'm not saying people should accept this type of crime, but I'm just not sure anyone would lose their job when there was no prosecution. I'm not a lawyer but would anyone really lose their job when there was no conviction in court?

 

I personally think he should go to jail for a long time regardless. Let her enjoy his money without him having the opportunity to touch her. But we can't just do whatever we want to someone outside of the court system.

[StrangeSox]

No workplace should want to be associated with this sort of behavior. I have no problem with someone losing their job for it. In any business, the employees of a company are a large part of their image. Getting rid of people who don't fit that image does not bother me in the least.

I don't know that I'd go so far as to make anyone who's convicted of a horrible crime like this case of DV (or should have been convicted!) essentially unemployable for life.

[southsider2k5]

Technically, they aren't outside of the protocol, are they? Didn't the policy give them the ability to suspend someone for longer depending on some other factors?

 

Besides, this occurred prior to the protocol...in fact, it was obviously the reason the protocol was created in the first place.

From before today...

 

http://espn.go.com/espnw/news-commentary/a...lence-penalties

 

Domestic violence infractions, however, fall under the personal conduct policy, which meant that Goodell alone was able to determine the severity of any fine or suspension.

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11425532...violence-policy

 

Finally, and consistent with our Personal Conduct Policy, our own response to domestic violence or sexual assault incidents by NFL personnel will include new elements of evaluation, treatment and family support, as well as enhanced discipline. We will address these issues fairly and thoughtfully, respecting the rights of all involved and giving proper deference to law enforcement and the courts. If someone is charged with domestic violence or sexual assault, there will be a mandatory evaluation and, where professionally indicated, counseling or other specialized services. Effective immediately, violations of the Personal Conduct Policy regarding assault, battery, domestic violence or sexual assault that involve physical force will be subject to a suspension without pay of six games for a first offense, with consideration given to mitigating factors, as well as a longer suspension when circumstances warrant. Among the circumstances that would merit a more severe penalty would be a prior incident before joining the NFL, or violence involving a weapon, choking, repeated striking, or when the act is committed against a pregnant woman or in the presence of a child. A second offense will result in banishment from the NFL; while an individual may petition for reinstatement after one year, there will be no presumption or assurance that the petition will be granted. These disciplinary standards will apply to all NFL personnel.

[iamshack]

I thought it was 6 games for a first offender. I guess technically "indefinite" could be 6, but they better decide that quickly.

I think they could apply mitigating or aggravating factors to shorten or lengthen the suspension, however.

[ptatc]

This falls outside of the CBA.

I don't think so. I think it's part of the " ethics/personal conduct" part of the agreement and contracts. Just about everything that has to do with employment and punishment goes through the CBA.

 

edit: I see the information from above. I always thought that was in the CBA. I guess it's just " we can change it if we need to"

Edited September 8, 2014 by ptatc

[Jenksismyhero]

I think they could apply mitigating or aggravating factors to shorten or lengthen the suspension, however.

 

What's the mitigating factor? The video?

[StrangeSox]

I'm not saying people should accept this type of crime, but I'm just not sure anyone would lose their job when there was no prosecution. I'm not a lawyer but would anyone really lose their job when there was no conviction in court?

 

I personally think he should go to jail for a long time regardless. Let her enjoy his money without him having the opportunity to touch her. But we can't just do whatever we want to someone outside of the court system.

 

Just recently the CEO of Centerplate, a major food supplier to parks and stadiums across the country, was forced to resign over his puppy-kicking video.

 

For the most people, employers can fire you for almost any reason or even no reason at all.

[southsider2k5]

I'm not saying people should accept this type of crime, but I'm just not sure anyone would lose their job when there was no prosecution. I'm not a lawyer but would anyone really lose their job when there was no conviction in court?

 

I personally think he should go to jail for a long time regardless. Let her enjoy his money without him having the opportunity to touch her. But we can't just do whatever we want to someone outside of the court system.

 

We can't. But your employer can fire you for a whole myriad of reasons, this being one of them. The NFL has a conduct policy, and very clearly stipulates a whole list of reasons you can be fired from your job (aka have your contract terminated). It also has the right to bar you from working from them again, just like any other company does.

[southsider2k5]

I don't think so. I think it's part of the " ethics/personal conduct" part of the agreement and contracts. Just about everything that has to do with employment and punishment goes through the CBA.

 

It does.

 

http://espn.go.com/espnw/news-commentary/a...lence-penalties

 

The source told Brandt that Goodell had discussions with NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith and that lawyers for the league and union also talked, although it was unclear if an agreement was reached between the two sides.

 

The increased penalties for domestic violence did not have to be collectively bargained because they fall under the personal conduct policy.

[iamshack]

What's the mitigating factor? The video?

That would technically be an aggravating factor, and I think one could argue that the sheer force with which he struck her, combined with the fact that he then dragged her out of the elevator, obviously could justify suspending him indefinitely.

 

He literally could have killed her.

[Jenksismyhero]

We can't. But your employer can fire you for a whole myriad of reasons, this being one of them. The NFL has a conduct policy, and very clearly stipulates a whole list of reasons you can be fired from your job (aka have your contract terminated). It also has the right to bar you from working from them again, just like any other company does.

 

I would bet Rice still has recourse against the NFL though if he just arbitrarily changes the punishment. When you set forth a protocol on how to treat your employees and you don't follow them you're breaching your agreement.

[southsider2k5]

I would bet Rice still has recourse against the NFL though if he just arbitrarily changes the punishment. When you set forth a protocol on how to treat your employees and you don't follow them you're breaching your agreement.

 

If Ray Rice gets his job back off of a f***ing technicality, that will be even more disappointing than Ryan Braun getting off of his suspension off of a BS technicality.

[ptatc]

We can't. But your employer can fire you for a whole myriad of reasons, this being one of them. The NFL has a conduct policy, and very clearly stipulates a whole list of reasons you can be fired from your job (aka have your contract terminated). It also has the right to bar you from working from them again, just like any other company does.

Does the employer have the right to fire you without justification? I'm truly asking as I don't know. Right now Rice can say he had no legal action taken against him. Why should the business take action when the courts didn't

 

Again don't take this as I agree. I think he should have been prosecuted. But since he wasn't, I don't know the justification.

[StrangeSox]

If Ray Rice gets his job back off of a f***ing technicality, that will be even more disappointing than Ryan Braun getting off of his suspension off of a BS technicality.

The Ravens are still free to cut him whenever they want.

[Soxbadger]

Does the employer have the right to fire you without justification? I'm truly asking as I don't know. Right now Rice can say he had no legal action taken against him. Why should the business take action when the courts didn't

 

Again don't take this as I agree. I think he should have been prosecuted. But since he wasn't, I don't know the justification.

 

Many states are at will employment which means you can be fired for no reason or any reason provided its not an illegal reason.

 

NFL players have a contract so their ability to be terminated is based on whatever agreement that they signed.

[iamshack]

Does the employer have the right to fire you without justification? I'm truly asking as I don't know. Right now Rice can say he had no legal action taken against him. Why should the business take action when the courts didn't

 

Again don't take this as I agree. I think he should have been prosecuted. But since he wasn't, I don't know the justification.

In most states, yes. They can't discriminate against you, but they can fire you absent any particular cause in most states.

[iamshack]

Many states are at will employment which means you can be fired for no reason or any reason provided its not an illegal reason.

 

NFL players have a contract so their ability to be terminated is based on whatever agreement that they signed.

I'm pretty sure their contracts only guarantee them some financial payout, but certainly not a roster spot.

[StrangeSox]

Does the employer have the right to fire you without justification?

 

I'm truly asking as I don't know. Right now Rice can say he had no legal action taken against him. Why should the business take action when the courts didn't

 

Again don't take this as I agree. I think he should have been prosecuted. But since he wasn't, I don't know the justification.

 

Outside of a limited number of jobs that have some sort of due process contractual requirements for termination (e.g. tenure), you can be fired for pretty much any reason outside of race, sex, religion or even no reason at all.

 

I'm not sure how that might work with the NFLPA, the CBA and the NFL banning him from playing at all, but the Ravens are free to cut him any time they feel like, same as any other player. They could still owe some money on it, but NFL salaries aren't 100% guaranteed like MLB contracts.

[Jenksismyhero]

Yeah it's not the Ravens, it's the NFL preventing him from getting another job (if there is one) because of the suspension.

 

Also, Jesus:

 

http://deadspin.com/keith-olbermann-on-rog...dium=socialflow

 

Again with the overreaction. This is damn near grounds for a defamation claim if it's not true.

 

 

[iamshack]

Yeah it's not the Ravens, it's the NFL preventing him from getting another job (if there is one) because of the suspension.

 

Also, Jesus:

 

http://deadspin.com/keith-olbermann-on-rog...dium=socialflow

 

Again with the overreaction. This is damn near grounds for a defamation claim if it's not true.

He is such a blowhard

 

Putting janay palmer in a Position to plead for her Husband's career, perhaps being Beaten again if she failed, that Roger goodell did.

 

I keep hearing people making this point...do people just disregard the fact that she MARRIED the guy after this incident? Did he force her to do THAT too, under threats of another beating?

 

Come on...

Edited September 8, 2014 by iamshack