Ray Rice Cut and Suspended Indefinitely

[Soxbadger]

I wonder if she were your sister or daughter or friend if you would feel the same way.

 

My sister is an adult. She gets a say in her life. If its just a "terrible mistake" Id get over it, if it was a "pattern of abuse" then no.

 

It is her choice, but it seems intentionally naive to ignore how DV frequently works to make the victim blame themselves and rationalize their abuser's behavior.

 

Its naive to ignore the fact that when there is long term abuse (Rice has been with her since HS) that there are generally a lot of signs/indication. So you would think that if hes been abusing her for almost 10 years, there would be more stories/whispers.

 

But if it fits your narrative, it must be fact. I clearly have stated I have no idea what has gone on, and that I think we should INVESTIGATE, before we jump to a conclusion either way.

 

Sorry I guess thats the American in me.

[Dick Allen]

They were not married yet. That is the whole point I am making.

 

But I certainly concede he may have somehow convinced her to marry him despite continuing trauma. And if that is the case, then she's not going to tell the truth, whether he is in the room or not. That's all I am trying to get across.

I don't think it really mattered whether he was in the room or not either. I'm sure they had their story straight before the meeting.

 

No clear thinking woman is going to marry a guy who did that to her one month later. Again, everyone show their wives the video and ask them if they would have married you one month later if that was a one time unfortunate mistake. There is obviously something up, and to think this was the first time he whacked her is just like thinking when guys get busted for steroids, it was a one time thing. There is a chance it was, but we all know it's pretty slim.

 

I don't know why some feel it is their duty to try to acquit Ray Rice. It's pretty apparent a heinus crime was committed.

2 games was ridiculous, there was outrage about that. Sure, it's funny this comes out and the NFL supposedly never saw it before. Sure it seems weird the punishment has changed. But regardless, at least now the NFL punishment is appropriate.

[StrangeSox]

My sister is an adult. She gets a say in her life. If its just a "terrible mistake" Id get over it, if it was a "pattern of abuse" then no.

 

 

 

Its naive to ignore the fact that when there is long term abuse (Rice has been with her since HS) that there are generally a lot of signs/indication. So you would think that if hes been abusing her for almost 10 years, there would be more stories/whispers.

 

But if it fits your narrative, it must be fact. I clearly have stated I have no idea what has gone on, and that I think we should INVESTIGATE, before we jump to a conclusion either way.

 

Sorry I guess thats the American in me.

lol

[Soxbadger]

Im pretty sure no one wants to "acquit" Ray Rice. Im pretty sure people want to "investigate" before we "execute".

 

Not really a crazy idea, especially given the fact that this occurred half a year ago, and now all of a sudden everyone just knee jerk reacts.

 

/shrugs

 

You have to protect the rights of the worst the same way you protect the rights of the best. Believe that or dont, its a philosophical debate that you have to live with yourself. But itd be pretty hypocritical of me if I just completely forget what I stand for every time there is a "bad" guy who needs to be "punished".

 

Lynch mobs arent my thing.

 

Strangesox,

 

Laugh all you want. But please do not take some sort of "protect defendant's" stance in the future and not expect to be shown for the hypocrisy.

 

It is what it is. The worst deserve the same rights as the best. Im shocked someone as "liberal" as you doesnt believe in such a core idea of justice.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Soxbadger

[Balta1701]

Im pretty sure no one wants to "acquit" Ray Rice. Im pretty sure people want to "investigate" before we "execute".

 

Not really a crazy idea, especially given the fact that this occurred half a year ago, and now all of a sudden everyone just knee jerk reacts.

 

/shrugs

 

You have to protect the rights of the worst the same way you protect the rights of the best. Believe that or dont, its a philosophical debate that you have to live with yourself. But itd be pretty hypocritical of me if I just completely forget what I stand for every time there is a "bad" guy who needs to be "punished".

 

Lynch mobs arent my thing.

Would anyone disagree with me if I said that the reason why this turned into a lynch mob is that it wasn't handled remotely appropriately until recently?

 

Nike, i mean, Nike, didn't cut him loose until today. How is that even possible? The NFL being that dumb and tone deaf I get, but Nike?

[iamshack]

Im pretty sure no one wants to "acquit" Ray Rice. Im pretty sure people want to "investigate" before we "execute".

 

Not really a crazy idea, especially given the fact that this occurred half a year ago, and now all of a sudden everyone just knee jerk reacts.

 

/shrugs

 

You have to protect the rights of the worst the same way you protect the rights of the best. Believe that or dont, its a philosophical debate that you have to live with yourself. But itd be pretty hypocritical of me if I just completely forget what I stand for every time there is a "bad" guy who needs to be "punished".

 

Lynch mobs arent my thing.

 

Strangesox,

 

Laugh all you want. But please do not take some sort of "protect defendant's" stance in the future and not expect to be shown for the hypocrisy.

 

It is what it is. The worst deserve the same rights as the best. Im shocked someone as "liberal" as you doesnt believe in such a core idea of justice.

Let's face it, I also don't think it's a great way to adjudicate by putting yourself in the position of the victim or a family member of the victim. There isn't a whole lot of rational thought happening when you are that close to it.

[southsider2k5]

You have no evidence of what happened or why she said that.

 

The definition of abuser doesnt matter, what matters is the fact that people seem to always believe that they know best for everyone else.

 

Last I checked Rice and Turner were adults. At this point Rice does not seem to be a current threat to her life. If she wants to forgive him for what he did, thats her choice. Just like if someone forgives a spouse for cheating, etc. Their life, not mine.

 

(edit)

 

Does anyone have a shred of evidence of prior abuse by Rice? Cause in my experience usually there are more signs than just 1 sudden outburst in public.

 

Again, no one has said different. But, again, that has no effect on how the NFL and the Ravens handle the situation.

[iamshack]

Would anyone disagree with me if I said that the reason why this turned into a lynch mob is that it wasn't handled remotely appropriately until recently?

 

Nike, i mean, Nike, didn't cut him loose until today. How is that even possible? The NFL being that dumb and tone deaf I get, but Nike?

Nike is the company that stuck by Tiger Woods, remember that.

 

Do you think if Ray Rice had been suspended for 8 games originally, the outrage would be any less? I tend to think not.

[southsider2k5]

My sister is an adult. She gets a say in her life. If its just a "terrible mistake" Id get over it, if it was a "pattern of abuse" then no.

 

 

 

Its naive to ignore the fact that when there is long term abuse (Rice has been with her since HS) that there are generally a lot of signs/indication. So you would think that if hes been abusing her for almost 10 years, there would be more stories/whispers.

 

But if it fits your narrative, it must be fact. I clearly have stated I have no idea what has gone on, and that I think we should INVESTIGATE, before we jump to a conclusion either way.

 

Sorry I guess thats the American in me.

 

The fact that he punched her in the face is actually the strongest indication of a pattern. Abuse almost never starts off at that level of violence. It almost always starts off more subtle, and works it way up to getting punched in the face.

 

Who just one day decides to punch someone in the face, versus all of the other possible interactions they could have? Usually you get to that point because in the eyes of the abuser, the rest of the steps haven't worked.

[southsider2k5]

Im pretty sure no one wants to "acquit" Ray Rice. Im pretty sure people want to "investigate" before we "execute".

 

Not really a crazy idea, especially given the fact that this occurred half a year ago, and now all of a sudden everyone just knee jerk reacts.

 

/shrugs

 

You have to protect the rights of the worst the same way you protect the rights of the best. Believe that or dont, its a philosophical debate that you have to live with yourself. But itd be pretty hypocritical of me if I just completely forget what I stand for every time there is a "bad" guy who needs to be "punished".

 

Lynch mobs arent my thing.

 

Strangesox,

 

Laugh all you want. But please do not take some sort of "protect defendant's" stance in the future and not expect to be shown for the hypocrisy.

 

It is what it is. The worst deserve the same rights as the best. Im shocked someone as "liberal" as you doesnt believe in such a core idea of justice.

 

Appeasing spousal abuse isn't my thing

 

/shrugs

 

[Soxbadger]

Would anyone disagree with me if I said that the reason why this turned into a lynch mob is that it wasn't handled remotely appropriately until recently?

 

Nike, i mean, Nike, didn't cut him loose until today. How is that even possible? The NFL being that dumb and tone deaf I get, but Nike?

 

What is the appropriate response?

 

No one has any of the facts. I would say the appropriate response would be to ask the victim, what she wants. To investigate to determine if this was a pattern of abuse, or a single incident. And then once you have all the facts to make a ruling and stick by it.

 

And if you have some sort of animosity towards how this was handled, I would think the venom should be at the NFL and Ravens. Why not say the NFL has to donate a lot of money to DV, why not say the Ravens do? Why not have the Ravens forfeit the season, or actually hit the people who "failed to appropriately handle it".

 

That seems to be logical and an appropriate response.

[southsider2k5]

Would anyone disagree with me if I said that the reason why this turned into a lynch mob is that it wasn't handled remotely appropriately until recently?

 

Nike, i mean, Nike, didn't cut him loose until today. How is that even possible? The NFL being that dumb and tone deaf I get, but Nike?

 

No.

[southsider2k5]

What is the appropriate response?

 

No one has any of the facts. I would say the appropriate response would be to ask the victim, what she wants. To investigate to determine if this was a pattern of abuse, or a single incident. And then once you have all the facts to make a ruling and stick by it.

 

And if you have some sort of animosity towards how this was handled, I would think the venom should be at the NFL and Ravens. Why not say the NFL has to donate a lot of money to DV, why not say the Ravens do? Why not have the Ravens forfeit the season, or actually hit the people who "failed to appropriately handle it".

 

That seems to be logical and an appropriate response.

 

Except for a video, showing the girl getting punched in the face, knocked out, and drug around like a caveman. I am not quite sure what more that needs to be seen.

 

There is plenty of room for venom for Rice, and the NFL and Ravens, and it has been directed towards all three.

[Balta1701]

Nike is the company that stuck by Tiger Woods, remember that.

 

Do you think if Ray Rice had been suspended for 8 games originally, the outrage would be any less? I tend to think not.

Yes, I think there would have been a huge difference if the NFL had suspended him for 8 games initially.

[Soxbadger]

Appeasing spousal abuse isn't my thing

 

/shrugs

 

Exactly my point. Either you believe in protecting rights or you dont. I dont just get to say "Well I really hate X so they dont deserve a trial, they should just be executed."

 

You may not believe it, but the time where we need to be most vigilant about protecting our beliefs, is when it is the most heinous of criminals.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Soxbadger

[Soxbadger]

Except for a video, showing the girl getting punched in the face, knocked out, and drug around like a caveman. I am not quite sure what more that needs to be seen.

 

There is plenty of room for venom for Rice, and the NFL and Ravens, and it has been directed towards all three.

 

Everyone knew this in February. The video released in February showed Rice dragging her around. The only thing you didnt see was the punch. But anyone who has half a brain knows that a punch to knock someone out cold isnt a love tap.

 

/shrug

 

Im so fauxraged right now, just wait till next week when something else captivates the minds of Americans to get mad about. I mean s***, youd think Ray Rice was War Machine (ironically that story isnt getting half as much coverage).

[StrangeSox]

Im pretty sure no one wants to "acquit" Ray Rice. Im pretty sure people want to "investigate" before we "execute".

 

Not really a crazy idea, especially given the fact that this occurred half a year ago, and now all of a sudden everyone just knee jerk reacts.

 

/shrugs

 

You have to protect the rights of the worst the same way you protect the rights of the best. Believe that or dont, its a philosophical debate that you have to live with yourself. But itd be pretty hypocritical of me if I just completely forget what I stand for every time there is a "bad" guy who needs to be "punished".

 

Lynch mobs arent my thing.

 

Strangesox,

 

Laugh all you want. But please do not take some sort of "protect defendant's" stance in the future and not expect to be shown for the hypocrisy.

 

It is what it is. The worst deserve the same rights as the best. Im shocked someone as "liberal" as you doesnt believe in such a core idea of justice.

I was laughing at the overall tone of your post, especially the last line, because it's funny.

 

I've already said I don't necessarily agree that a DV conviction (or an incident like this that clearly should have led to one) should generally get you barred from future employment opportunities. Given the very public nature of the NFL, things are different in this case because you have teams/the league with legitimate PR concerns. It's comparable to some random mid-level manager getting charged for animal abuse versus a CEO; the CEO is the public face of the company and draws a lot of negative attention when he does that, whereas some random employee no one ever hears about and is never connected to his employer doesn't.

 

The NFL and the Ravens "investigated" when it happened, and tried to quickly sweep it under the rug with a short suspension. They were pretty widely criticized for that at the time. When the video leaked, lots of people were shocked by just how violent and brutal the assault actually was. The NFL and the Ravens then flailed some more and jumped to cutting him and an indefinite ban. They look pretty bad in this situation, and I somewhat agree with jenks that the NFL issuing a weak suspension, then announcing a new policy in response to the backlash over the weak suspension, then going above and beyond their new policy when a video that they're probably already seen becomes public is kinda bulls*** on their part.

 

I don't see where Rice's rights are being violated, though. I don't like it, but almost all of us work at-will. Rice was cut from a contract, which the Ravens have every right to do at any time for almost any reason. He doesn't have a right to play in the NFL. As far as due process goes, I don't see how anything could ever legitimize what's so clear in that video, so there's not much there.

[Dick Allen]

Exactly my point. Either you believe in protecting rights or you dont. I dont just get to say "Well I really hate X so they dont deserve a trial, they should just be executed."

 

You may not believe it, but the time where we need to be most vigilant about protecting our beliefs, is when it is the most heinous of criminals.

I don't know why you need a trial to determine what happened. Everyone knows in our system, whether you are guilty or not is largely determined by what kind of representation you have.

 

I saw a video of Ray Rice punching his fiance in the face and knocking her out. I also saw another video of him dragging her out of the same elevator by her hair. Call me crazy or unAmerican, or whatever, if I was on a jury, the video trumps whatever BS his lawyers could possibly come up with. He's as guilty as can be, and really should be spending time in prison.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Dick Allen

[StrangeSox]

And if you have some sort of animosity towards how this was handled, I would think the venom should be at the NFL and Ravens. Why not say the NFL has to donate a lot of money to DV, why not say the Ravens do? Why not have the Ravens forfeit the season, or actually hit the people who "failed to appropriately handle it".

 

That seems to be logical and an appropriate response.

 

Plenty of people are strongly criticizing Rice, the NFL and the Ravens?

[StrangeSox]

Exactly my point. Either you believe in protecting rights or you dont. I dont just get to say "Well I really hate X so they dont deserve a trial, they should just be executed."

 

You may not believe it, but the time where we need to be most vigilant about protecting our beliefs, is when it is the most heinous of criminals.

This is kinda ironic though since the police/prosecutors decided to sweep it all under the rug, too. He's not getting a trial, he's able to walk away a free man without ever being charged.

[Jenksismyhero]

The fact that he punched her in the face is actually the strongest indication of a pattern. Abuse almost never starts off at that level of violence. It almost always starts off more subtle, and works it way up to getting punched in the face.

 

Who just one day decides to punch someone in the face, versus all of the other possible interactions they could have? Usually you get to that point because in the eyes of the abuser, the rest of the steps haven't worked.

 

I don't buy this at all.

 

About 5 years ago I decked a guy in a bar who was being a dick and messing with friends of mine. I was drunk, I got pissed off, and I acted, unfortunately in that way. Before that, I had never hit another person in my life. I'm one of the least confrontational people you'll ever meet. I snapped. Rice, while drunk, could have just snapped too.

[Jenksismyhero]

Everyone knew this in February. The video released in February showed Rice dragging her around. The only thing you didnt see was the punch. But anyone who has half a brain knows that a punch to knock someone out cold isnt a love tap.

 

/shrug

 

Im so fauxraged right now, just wait till next week when something else captivates the minds of Americans to get mad about. I mean s***, youd think Ray Rice was War Machine (ironically that story isnt getting half as much coverage).

 

"Come on everyone, back to the Redskins bandwagon!"

[Dick Allen]

I don't buy this at all.

 

About 5 years ago I decked a guy in a bar who was being a dick and messing with friends of mine. I was drunk, I got pissed off, and I acted, unfortunately in that way. Before that, I had never hit another person in my life. I'm one of the least confrontational people you'll ever meet. I snapped. Rice, while drunk, could have just snapped too.

Could have, but more likely there has been previous incidents. Maybe not as bad as this, but going after a guy in a bar is far different than going after a woman, not to mention one you supposedly love and are about to marry.

[Buehrle>Wood]

I love the completely false narrative that people only started caring yesterday. As if they weren't shocked in February watching Rice drag a lifeless body. As if people weren't outraged over Rice getting such a small suspension. As if the outrage wasn't so loud that Goodell had to publicly apologize, something we never thought we'd see. As if the nfl didn't completely rewrite their rules due to the public being so upset with how they've handled things. But yeah aside from all that it's just spur of the moment rage.

[Soxbadger]

This is kinda ironic though since the police/prosecutors decided to sweep it all under the rug, too. He's not getting a trial, he's able to walk away a free man without ever being charged.

 

Not really that ironic. Most people dont get charged with crimes for 1 single incident, especially if the victim doesnt really want the charges pressed. He had to enter a plea deal, which is what would be the likely outcome for most people given the same circumstances.

 

I don't buy this at all.

 

About 5 years ago I decked a guy in a bar who was being a dick and messing with friends of mine. I was drunk, I got pissed off, and I acted, unfortunately in that way. Before that, I had never hit another person in my life. I'm one of the least confrontational people you'll ever meet. I snapped. Rice, while drunk, could have just snapped too.

 

And I think the point is, its not right to hit another human, but before we put them in jail and throw away the key we should really make sure they are a BAD person, not just someone who was in an unfortunate position and made a terrible mistake.