Ray Rice Cut and Suspended Indefinitely

[IlliniKrush]

What is the appropriate response?

 

No one has any of the facts. I would say the appropriate response would be to ask the victim, what she wants. To investigate to determine if this was a pattern of abuse, or a single incident. And then once you have all the facts to make a ruling and stick by it.

 

And if you have some sort of animosity towards how this was handled, I would think the venom should be at the NFL and Ravens. Why not say the NFL has to donate a lot of money to DV, why not say the Ravens do? Why not have the Ravens forfeit the season, or actually hit the people who "failed to appropriately handle it".

 

That seems to be logical and an appropriate response.

We have no facts? Haha.

 

Leave it up to the victim? What? NFL can do what they want.

 

Investigate...? You've seen the video, no? You can take action based on that.

 

You realize a lot of this venom is at the Ravens and the NFL, and has been for a long time, right?

 

Either way, Rice is the one who also needs to be punished, and was.

 

This whole outrage is because the NFL absolutely f***ed up the original punishment.

 

/SHRUGS

[StrangeSox]

Not really that ironic. Most people dont get charged with crimes for 1 single incident, especially if the victim doesnt really want the charges pressed. He had to enter a plea deal, which is what would be the likely outcome for most people given the same circumstances.

Most people would get a slap on the wrist for knocking their partner out?

[Jenksismyhero]

Could have, but more likely there has been previous incidents. Maybe not as bad as this, but going after a guy in a bar is far different than going after a woman, not to mention one you supposedly love and are about to marry.

 

Just making s*** up here. There's no evidence of that, at all.

 

Also, I'd like the record to show that we're treating women differently here, even though we're not supposed to. Equality, right? If Rice had hit another guy in the elevator this is a non-story.

[Soxbadger]

I love the completely false narrative that people only started caring yesterday. As if they weren't shocked in February watching Rice drag a lifeless body. As if people weren't outraged over Rice getting such a small suspension. As if the outrage wasn't so loud that Goodell had to publicly apologize, something we never thought we'd see. As if the nfl didn't completely rewrite their rules due to the public being so upset with how they've handled things. But yeah aside from all that it's just spur of the moment rage.

 

Its not a false narrative at all. There have been more news stories/coverage in the last few days than in the other months combined.

 

So much so, that there is a whole thread dedicated to "Ray Rice" in this forum. Where as all that posting back in February?

 

[IlliniKrush]

Just making s*** up here. There's no evidence of that, at all.

 

Also, I'd like the record to show that we're treating women differently here, even though we're not supposed to. Equality, right? If Rice had hit another guy in the elevator this is a non-story.

Seriously?

[Dick Allen]

Not really that ironic. Most people dont get charged with crimes for 1 single incident, especially if the victim doesnt really want the charges pressed. He had to enter a plea deal, which is what would be the likely outcome for most people given the same circumstances.

 

 

 

And I think the point is, its not right to hit another human, but before we put them in jail and throw away the key we should really make sure they are a BAD person, not just someone who was in an unfortunate position and made a terrible mistake.

I was once hit head on by a driver with no insurance, who totaled my car. I went to his court appearance. They said they were going to drop the charges because he had no prior record. I asked them how anyone could possibly get a prior record if that was the policy. They just looked at me.

 

As for domestic abuse, I mentioned earlier I have a friend whose daughter was a victim. She went back with him. At his hearing she said she didn't remember him hitting her, so everything got dropped, like it never happened.

 

Rice is a bad person. He not only punched her, he knocked her out, and then, apparently not realizing his mistake, dragged her around by the hair. Did he commit a crime or not? I don't care if people like him.

[southsider2k5]

Exactly my point. Either you believe in protecting rights or you dont. I dont just get to say "Well I really hate X so they dont deserve a trial, they should just be executed."

 

You may not believe it, but the time where we need to be most vigilant about protecting our beliefs, is when it is the most heinous of criminals.

 

Wait. Are you honestly saying that Ray Rice's rights have been violated? Now you are just trolling.

[Dick Allen]

Just making s*** up here. There's no evidence of that, at all.

 

Also, I'd like the record to show that we're treating women differently here, even though we're not supposed to. Equality, right? If Rice had hit another guy in the elevator this is a non-story.

If Rice had hit another guy, he certainly would have gone to jail, probably would have been sued, and perhaps unavailable to the Ravens this year anyway. I do agree, the outrage wouldn't have been the same, but Rice may have ultimately wound up worse than he is now.

[Jenksismyhero]

Seriously?

 

25% serious. I think hitting a woman is terrible and much worse, but I do wonder why it's SO much worse than hitting a man. There's an implicit "women are inferior and need protecting" subtext there.

[IlliniKrush]

Its not a false narrative at all. There have been more news stories/coverage in the last few days than in the other months combined.

 

So much so, that there is a whole thread dedicated to "Ray Rice" in this forum. Where as all that posting back in February?

Do you understand how news works?

 

Wasn't much to post about in February, NFL hadn't a terrible error in judgment at that point.

 

/shrugs.

[Jenksismyhero]

If Rice had hit another guy, he certainly would have gone to jail, probably would have been sued, and perhaps unavailable to the Ravens this year anyway. I do agree, the outrage wouldn't have been the same, but Rice may have ultimately wound up worse than he is now.

 

No way. Not a chance. At WORST he misses a game. And I doubt he misses that.

[Soxbadger]

I was once hit head on by a driver with no insurance, who totaled my car. I went to his court appearance. They said they were going to drop the charges because he had no prior record. I asked them how anyone could possibly get a prior record if that was the policy. They just looked at me.

 

As for domestic abuse, I mentioned earlier I have a friend whose daughter was a victim. She went back with him. At his hearing she said she didn't remember him hitting her, so everything got dropped, like it never happened.

 

Rice is a bad person. He not only punched her, he knocked her out, and then, apparently not realizing his mistake, dragged her around by the hair. Did he commit a crime or not? I don't care if people like him.

 

Did he commit a crime?

 

Well it depends on how you view the American justice system. I view it as simply, you are innocent until proven guilty. Since he was never found guilty, I have to say he is innocent. Doesnt mean he is a good person, or that what he did is right. It just means that a prosecutor and judge (who had more information than I do) believed that the best route was to get a deal where Rice would have to work on his behavior, instead of trying to take this to trial and putting him in jail.

 

Was that a good decision?

 

I dont know, but its no different than the NFL's original decision. Once its done, its done. To me its akin double jeopardy, which is something you either believe in or not.

[southsider2k5]

I don't buy this at all.

 

About 5 years ago I decked a guy in a bar who was being a dick and messing with friends of mine. I was drunk, I got pissed off, and I acted, unfortunately in that way. Before that, I had never hit another person in my life. I'm one of the least confrontational people you'll ever meet. I snapped. Rice, while drunk, could have just snapped too.

 

A bar fight is on no level equal to spousal abuse. Read up on it.

[Dick Allen]

Just making s*** up here. There's no evidence of that, at all.

 

Also, I'd like the record to show that we're treating women differently here, even though we're not supposed to. Equality, right? If Rice had hit another guy in the elevator this is a non-story.

If Rice had hit another guy, he certainly would have gone to jail, probably would have been sued, and perhaps unavailable to the Ravens this year anyway. I do agree, the outrage wouldn't have been the same, but Rice may have ultimately wound up worse than he is now.

 

But read about abuse. This stuff is not made up. There is a pattern that develops, and Rice seems well into that pattern.

[StrangeSox]

25% serious. I think hitting a woman is terrible and much worse, but I do wonder why it's SO much worse than hitting a man. There's an implicit "women are inferior and need protecting" subtext there.

I think it's more "knowledge of how DV situations usually play out," but it should be noted that men can and do suffer from emotional and psychological abuse as well.

[southsider2k5]

Did he commit a crime?

 

Well it depends on how you view the American justice system. I view it as simply, you are innocent until proven guilty. Since he was never found guilty, I have to say he is innocent. Doesnt mean he is a good person, or that what he did is right. It just means that a prosecutor and judge (who had more information than I do) believed that the best route was to get a deal where Rice would have to work on his behavior, instead of trying to take this to trial and putting him in jail.

 

Was that a good decision?

 

I dont know, but its no different than the NFL's original decision. Once its done, its done. To me its akin double jeopardy, which is something you either believe in or not.

 

Committing a crime, and being convicted of a crime are two completely different things, as you well know.

[iamshack]

25% serious. I think hitting a woman is terrible and much worse, but I do wonder why it's SO much worse than hitting a man. There's an implicit "women are inferior and need protecting" subtext there.

I agree. Obviously men are stronger than women, in the general sense. A man is probably generally going to take that punch better than a woman. But few people react this way when a woman goes after a man with a knife or a gun, which goes a long way towards negating the physical advantage men have over women.

 

A lot of this is chivalry/protectionism, which isn't necessarily wrong, but it is getting a bit out of control here.

[Soxbadger]

Do you understand how news works?

 

Wasn't much to post about in February, NFL hadn't a terrible error in judgment at that point.

 

/shrugs.

 

How wasnt their much to post about in February? We knew about the "abuse"then. If youre such a domestic violence crusader you didnt need to see a more explicit video. Where were all the people telling his fiance not to marry him, that hes an "abuser" etc?

 

The suspension came out in July, once again, where was all of this?

 

Its just like the beheading videos. I dont need to see a reporter having his head cut off to know how brutal it is. I am just as outraged seeing it or not seeing it. Same with back in February where literally no one cared about this.

 

 

[Jenksismyhero]

A bar fight is on no level equal to spousal abuse. Read up on it.

 

When both are one time events, I think it's pretty much the same. You're just assuming there was more background here without any evidence to support it.

[Dick Allen]

Did he commit a crime?

 

Well it depends on how you view the American justice system. I view it as simply, you are innocent until proven guilty. Since he was never found guilty, I have to say he is innocent. Doesnt mean he is a good person, or that what he did is right. It just means that a prosecutor and judge (who had more information than I do) believed that the best route was to get a deal where Rice would have to work on his behavior, instead of trying to take this to trial and putting him in jail.

 

Was that a good decision?

 

I dont know, but its no different than the NFL's original decision. Once its done, its done. To me its akin double jeopardy, which is something you either believe in or not.

He certainly committed a crime. Whether he gets convicted of said crime is another story, but I think he would have a hard time getting out of this one.

 

But if I am a good person and for some reason my neighbor cranking Boy George at 1 in the morning bothers me so I go over and stab him to death, instead of putting me in jail, I should go to some classes to work on my behavior? If not, what is the cutoff? To me if this was a one time isolated incident, I would have figured, he would have come to his senses after he knocked her out, but yet he dragged her by her hair out of the elevator. If he is capable of doing that, why wouldn't he be capable of doing it again to anyone and why shouldn't he be considered a menace?

[southsider2k5]

How wasnt their much to post about in February? We knew about the "abuse"then. If youre such a domestic violence crusader you didnt need to see a more explicit video. Where were all the people telling his fiance not to marry him, that hes an "abuser" etc?

 

The suspension came out in July, once again, where was all of this?

 

Its just like the beheading videos. I dont need to see a reporter having his head cut off to know how brutal it is. I am just as outraged seeing it or not seeing it. Same with back in February where literally no one cared about this.

 

I doubt anyone has changed their stance on domestic abuse since February. What proof do you have that everyone was OK with this then, just because there wasn't an on-going long thread about it?

 

Just for the record, for now until the end of Soxtalk-dom, I have always felt like anyone who punches their significant other in the face, is fully justified in having their employer fire them, and never allow them to work for the company again. I also have no problem with other companies not being willing to hire people who feel the need to punch their significant others in the face. I felt that way in Feb. I feel that way today, and have always felt that way.

 

I never, ever seen a need to make excuses for someone who does this, and I won't.

 

He should have been cut, terminated, and/or suspended when this first happened. I also very seriously doubt that anyone on Soxtalk would have been upset if Ray Rice had these same things happen to him in Feb, just because they hadn't seen a video of it.

 

The strawmen you are creating in this thread to have something to argue about are just jaw-dropping. The passive-aggressive support for Rice here is just sad.

[Jenksismyhero]

If Rice had hit another guy, he certainly would have gone to jail, probably would have been sued, and perhaps unavailable to the Ravens this year anyway. I do agree, the outrage wouldn't have been the same, but Rice may have ultimately wound up worse than he is now.

 

But read about abuse. This stuff is not made up. There is a pattern that develops, and Rice seems well into that pattern.

 

Worse in the sense that he might have gone to jail for a night, but there's no way in hell he's losing his career. These guys punch each other in games with no fines or suspensions.

Edited September 9, 2014 by Jenksismybitch

[StrangeSox]

Worse in the sense that he might have gone to jail for a night, but there's no way in hell he's losing his career. These guys punch each other in games with no fines or suspensions.

If he had knocked out some random guy or girl in the elevator, I'm not sure that the prosecutors let him slide with a treatment program instead of going for 3rd degree aggravated assault like they originally charged.

[cabiness42]

Worse in the sense that he might have gone to jail for a night, but there's no way in hell he's losing his career. These guys punch each other in games with no fines or suspensions.

 

OK, off topic for just a second: Yesterday in the Vuelta a Espana, two cyclists punched each other during the race, while staying on their bikes. One of the funniest things I've ever seen.

[Jenksismyhero]

He certainly committed a crime. Whether he gets convicted of said crime is another story, but I think he would have a hard time getting out of this one.

 

But if I am a good person and for some reason my neighbor cranking Boy George at 1 in the morning bothers me so I go over and stab him to death, instead of putting me in jail, I should go to some classes to work on my behavior? If not, what is the cutoff? To me if this was a one time isolated incident, I would have figured, he would have come to his senses after he knocked her out, but yet he dragged her by her hair out of the elevator. If he is capable of doing that, why wouldn't he be capable of doing it again to anyone and why shouldn't he be considered a menace?

 

Did that really happen? It's been a while since I saw the video. I thought he picked her up by the waist and then arms trying to get her out of the elevator. He was trying to cover his ass and get her back to the room, not be all neanderthal about it.