Ray Rice Cut and Suspended Indefinitely

[iamshack]

NBC freakin fired OJ just because he was accused of murder. He gets acquitted and they don't hire him back with some back pay. Total BS.

 

There is no video of OJ killing anyone, he was acquitted at trial, yet all of the lynch mob still thinks he's a murderer. Talk about a guy who got a bad deal.

What on god's earth are you talking about? I'm not talking about murder...I'm saying what if some woman just accuses a guy of domestic violence and then the court finds it was entirely frivolous nonsense? Like for instance the woman who accused Kaepernick of raping her? So he gets suspended for 4 games (under this proposal) and then when we all find out it was complete nonsense, we say, oh, sorry about that Kaep?

 

 

[Middle Buffalo]

In all the outrage over this Rice situation, I haven't heard one person wonder whether or not he would be accepted in the locker room. Last fall, with the Riley Cooper racism video release, that was a real talking point. It's odd to consider what is and is not acceptable behavior according to NFL players.

 

 

[illinilaw08]

And what if there is an acquittal?

 

They've been paid for the missed time. Good name restored. And they can move on.

 

There's no affirmative right to play in the NFL. And if the NFL is serious about making DV offenses punitive, then making them sit (with pay) while the charges are sorted out is the strongest stance the NFL can take.

[Dick Allen]

What on god's earth are you talking about? I'm not talking about murder...I'm saying what if some woman just accuses a guy of domestic violence and then the court finds it was entirely frivolous nonsense? Like for instance the woman who accused Kaepernick of raping her? So he gets suspended for 4 games (under this proposal) and then when we all find out it was complete nonsense, we say, oh, sorry about that Kaep?

I'm pretty sure if the NFL has suspended you, considering what they swept under the rug this time, they have some pretty damning evidence you have done something wrong. Was Kapernick ever charged with anything? The NFL does have a security team that supposedly investigates these matters. I would leave the decision up to them. If, in their opinion, there is enough to reasonably suspect the act was committed, go ahead and suspend him.

 

There are always going to be BS charges. There are also always going to be aquittals for people who were quilty. Sometimes you can see through them, sometimes you can't. But for a he said/she said, I do agree I think they should have more than just the alleged victim's account. I am sure everyone is aware there are always going to be money grabs, just like most know big names may get charged on shaky at best evidence for political reasons. The goal to me is to get the players that should be punished, punished, and let their punishment be a deterent for others.

 

I was watching something yesterday, and they were talking to an ex player who said many of these NFL guys got to the NFL by using anger, and they can't just shut it down once they get there. He specifically mentioned fatherless players, and then it was pointed out Rice's father was gunned down when he was 1 year old.

[iamshack]

They've been paid for the missed time. Good name restored. And they can move on.

 

There's no affirmative right to play in the NFL. And if the NFL is serious about making DV offenses punitive, then making them sit (with pay) while the charges are sorted out is the strongest stance the NFL can take.

That's horrible! Do you understand the power absolute strangers would have over these guys then? They deserve due process just like anyone else.

 

I don't like this at all.

[iamshack]

I'm pretty sure if the NFL has suspended you, considering what they swept under the rug this time, they have some pretty damning evidence you have done something wrong. Was Kapernick ever charged with anything? The NFL does have a security team that supposedly investigates these matters. I would leave the decision up to them. If, in their opinion, there is enough to reasonably suspect the act was committed, go ahead and suspend him.

 

There are always going to be BS charges. There are also always going to be aquittals for people who were quilty. Sometimes you can see through them, sometimes you can't. But for a he said/she said, I do agree I think they should have more than just the alleged victim's account. I am sure everyone is aware there are always going to be money grabs, just like most know big names may get charged on shaky at best evidence for political reasons. The goal to me is to get the players that should be punished, punished, and let their punishment be a deterent for others.

 

I was watching something yesterday, and they were talking to an ex player who said many of these NFL guys got to the NFL by using anger, and they can't just shut it down once they get there. He specifically mentioned fatherless players, and then it was pointed out Rice's father was gunned down when he was 1 year old.

 

We're not talking about the NFL's current process, we're talking about illinilaw's proposal, which would suspend a player simply based on charges.

[illinilaw08]

That's horrible! Do you understand the power absolute strangers would have over these guys then? They deserve due process just like anyone else.

 

I don't like this at all.

 

There has to be some level of evidence for the police to charge - eyewitnesses, evidence of injury, whatever. Complete strangers wouldn't just be able to say "Player X beat me up!" when they were just in a club at the same time this one time. In the Kaep example, he was never charged with a crime, so he never would have been suspended.

 

I fail to see the harm to the player if (1) the team can't cut them while they are out (put them on some sort of special DL while pending); and (2) they are still receiving their paychecks.

 

Take the McDonald example currently with the 49ers. If he gets charged with DV (and I'm not sure if this has happened yet or not), I would way rather the NFL suspend him with pay while things get sorted out than have the NFL sweep it under the rug. It's no different than what happens with police officers - suspended with pay while the investigation is ongoing.

 

EDIT: Note that in my earlier post I said I wouldn't have a problem with the scenario outlined above. I also don't have a problem with the league waiting for (1) damning evidence (read the video in the Rice case - or even just the video of him dragging her out of the elevator, unconscious, by the hair); or (2) waiting out the legal process. But I will note that DV cases can be some of the most difficult to prove. Witnesses recant or don't show up - regardless of subpoena. Without that evidence, the police officer is entirely reliant on the victim's hearsay - inadmissible - and circumstantial evidence of injury to prove a case. So waiting out a conviction, in DV cases in particular, can lead to punishment at all, even when the act actually occurred.

Edited September 11, 2014 by illinilaw08

[Jenksismyhero]

Flavor of the month...yet you agree a commissioner should lose his job, which is kind of a big deal. That's not flavor of the month material.

 

Furthermore, it's not about what I do about domestic violence, it's about what the NFL does (or in this case, didn't do). That's why this started.

 

I guess we'll agree to disagree if you think this is a 3 out of a 10.

 

Now that they hired the guy to run the investigation, any question from here on out will be answered the same ("I can't comment and won't until the conclusion of the investigation"), football continues, 6 months from now we'll all be over it and the investigation will find some communication lapses in the NFL offices such that persons A, B and C were found to have not acted properly. The NFL already has a new DV policy in place, so, the end.

 

Onto the next crusade. Or can we go back to Redskins now?

[Kyyle23]

Insta-banned? Depends on the case I'd say. The Ray Rice one happened in February. The NFL had some ability to take their time with that one, it's their own stupidity that screwed it up. This one, there's a legal case here that has to be made first. If you had video of it happening, then maybe you make the suspension right there because you have the evidence in hand, if there's no video then you have to wait at least a little bit until law enforcement does its job because we do give a presumption of innocence overall in this country and that should carry over.

 

The teams in the NFL can probably decide on their own how to deal with a guy in that scenario. Without knowing the person, it does seem like a team where the coach says he has zero tolerance for that stuff publicly is a case where the team should elect to sit him based on the coaches statements, but I won't say that should be the case in every circumstance.

 

If a guy is going to play while the investigation moves forward, that's tolerable. You can't fire a guy or tell him not to come to work that day until the police give something.

 

Which is our biggest issue right now, and why i asked that about McDonald. If we all saw this tape back in february of Rice throwing the punch, would he have gotten 6-8 games or would he be indefinitely suspended?

[IlliniKrush]

Now that they hired the guy to run the investigation, any question from here on out will be answered the same ("I can't comment and won't until the conclusion of the investigation"), football continues, 6 months from now we'll all be over it and the investigation will find some communication lapses in the NFL offices such that persons A, B and C were found to have not acted properly. The NFL already has a new DV policy in place, so, the end.

 

Onto the next crusade. Or can we go back to Redskins now?

Yeah, either Redskins or gun control.

[iamshack]

There has to be some level of evidence for the police to charge - eyewitnesses, evidence of injury, whatever. Complete strangers wouldn't just be able to say "Player X beat me up!" when they were just in a club at the same time this one time. In the Kaep example, he was never charged with a crime, so he never would have been suspended.

 

I fail to see the harm to the player if (1) the team can't cut them while they are out (put them on some sort of special DL while pending); and (2) they are still receiving their paychecks.

 

Take the McDonald example currently with the 49ers. If he gets charged with DV (and I'm not sure if this has happened yet or not), I would way rather the NFL suspend him with pay while things get sorted out than have the NFL sweep it under the rug. It's no different than what happens with police officers - suspended with pay while the investigation is ongoing.

 

EDIT: Note that in my earlier post I said I wouldn't have a problem with the scenario outlined above. I also don't have a problem with the league waiting for (1) damning evidence (read the video in the Rice case - or even just the video of him dragging her out of the elevator, unconscious, by the hair); or (2) waiting out the legal process. But I will note that DV cases can be some of the most difficult to prove. Witnesses recant or don't show up - regardless of subpoena. Without that evidence, the police officer is entirely reliant on the victim's hearsay - inadmissible - and circumstantial evidence of injury to prove a case. So waiting out a conviction, in DV cases in particular, can lead to punishment at all, even when the act actually occurred.

I prefer the scenarios outlined in your edits. I agree that in some cases, the suspension based on charges alone would be appropriate, but in others, I think it is patently unfair and wrong. A case by case approach is probably reasonable, one in which video or dna evidence or some sort of other irrefutable evidence is present.

 

 

[southsider2k5]

Yeah, either Redskins or gun control.

 

Next up, domestic abuse on the Redskins, and would gun control fix it?

[Soxbadger]

Maybe they can rent a party boat for the Vikings...

[southsider2k5]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/break....html?track=rss

 

The NFL Players Association received official confirmation from the NFL on Friday that former Baltimore Ravens running back Ray Rice is suspended indefinitely.

 

The letter, signed by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell and obtained by ESPN, explains that the league concluded Rice's original two-game suspension for assaulting his then-fiance and now-wife, Janay Palmer, should be indefinite because video released by TMZ Sports on Monday showed Rice in the act of striking her in an Atlantic City hotel casino elevator.

 

“This video shows a starkly different sequence of events from what you and your representatives stated when we met on June 16,” Goodell wrote, “and is important new information that warrants reconsideration of the discipline imposed on you in July.

 

”Based on this new information, I have concluded that the discipline imposed upon you in July was insufficient under all the circumstances and have determined instead to impose an indefinite suspension.“

 

ESPN's ”Outside The Lines“ reported Thursday, according to sources, that in a June meeting Rice told Goodell that he punched Janay in the elevator. On Tuesday, Goodell told CBS News that the video was ”inconsistent“ with what Rice had told him.”

 

Ray didn't lie to the commissioner,“ a source with knowledge of the meeting told ”Outside the Lines.“ ”He told the full truth to Goodell -- he made it clear he had hit her, and he told Goodell he was sorry and that it wouldn't happen again.“ Another source with knowledge of Rice's discussion with the commissioner said: ”There was no ambiguity about what happened (in the elevator).“

 

NFLPA spokesman George Attalah told ESPN on Friday that the union is ”considering all options“ now that it has the letter. The union has three days to inform the league whether it intends to appeal.

[Kyyle23]

this nonstop lie is just growing and growing.

 

Just fess up Goodell. everything you have said has been refuted

[Harry Chappas]

Someone compared this to Watergate, come clean early and it all goes away. Snowball is rolling now and it could cost Roger about $800M in earnings from the NFL.

 

This story is no longer about Ray Rice.

[greg775]

Someone compared this to Watergate, come clean early and it all goes away. Snowball is rolling now and it could cost Roger about $800M in earnings from the NFL.

 

This story is no longer about Ray Rice.

 

Kudos to TMZ for getting the tape. Now TMZ has gotten an NBA owner to be replaced (that was their expose on Sterling), Ray Rice suspended and an NFL owner likely canned. WOW. That's pretty powerful "journalism" work. Unprecedented journalism work. Of course they probably paid for the tape which is journalistically unethical I believe.

 

That said ... Ray Rice can never play football again. He knocked out a woman for gosh sakes. There are no excuses. How could any GM/owner sign off on acquiring Rice in the future? People make mistakes, sure, but you can't sign a person who knocks out a woman with a punch. You just can't.

And all these people that are speaking out like the announcer of the Niners who got suspended two games. What are they thinking? That guy got a 2 game suspension for saying stupid things.

Edited September 12, 2014 by greg775

[chw42]

Kudos to TMZ for getting the tape. Now TMZ has gotten an NBA owner to be replaced (that was their expose on Sterling), Ray Rice suspended and an NFL owner likely canned. WOW. That's pretty powerful "journalism" work. Unprecedented journalism work. Of course they probably paid for the tape which is journalistically unethical I believe.

 

That said ... Ray Rice can never play football again. He knocked out a woman for gosh sakes. There are no excuses. How could any GM/owner sign off on acquiring Rice in the future? People make mistakes, sure, but you can't sign a person who knocks out a woman with a punch. You just can't.

And all these people that are speaking out like the announcer of the Niners who got suspended two games. What are they thinking? That guy got a 2 game suspension for saying stupid things.

 

TMZ is not journalism.

[greg775]

TMZ is not journalism.

 

Yet can you deny TMZ "broke" two of the biggest stories in sports history? Sterling and the ultimate firing of Goodell? I mean, they wrote articles and published tapes which traditional journalism outlets do. So what do you call this?

[StrangeSox]

Kudos to TMZ for getting the tape. Now TMZ has gotten an NBA owner to be replaced (that was their expose on Sterling), Ray Rice suspended and an NFL owner likely canned. WOW. That's pretty powerful "journalism" work. Unprecedented journalism work. Of course they probably paid for the tape which is journalistically unethical I believe.

 

That said ... Ray Rice can never play football again. He knocked out a woman for gosh sakes. There are no excuses. How could any GM/owner sign off on acquiring Rice in the future? People make mistakes, sure, but you can't sign a person who knocks out a woman with a punch. You just can't.

And all these people that are speaking out like the announcer of the Niners who got suspended two games. What are they thinking? That guy got a 2 game suspension for saying stupid things.

Should anyone ever hire Ray Rice again for any job?

[Kyyle23]

Yet can you deny TMZ "broke" two of the biggest stories in sports history? Sterling and the ultimate firing of Goodell? I mean, they wrote articles and published tapes which traditional journalism outlets do. So what do you call this?

 

digging for dirt, and showing everyone the dirt you found

[chw42]

Yet can you deny TMZ "broke" two of the biggest stories in sports history? Sterling and the ultimate firing of Goodell? I mean, they wrote articles and published tapes which traditional journalism outlets do. So what do you call this?

 

TMZ is a celebrity gossip website who happened to get their hands on some tapes and surveilence footage.

[chw42]

digging for dirt, and showing everyone the dirt you found

 

Exactly. TMZ has some of the worst journalistic integrity out there. Praising that site for journalism just seems wrong.

[greg775]

Should anyone ever hire Ray Rice again for any job?

Great question. I am kind of speechless trying to come up with an answer.

 

Exactly. TMZ has some of the worst journalistic integrity out there. Praising that site for journalism just seems wrong.

Yet the stories they wrote and broadcasted resulted in some of the biggest consequences in sports history, an owner getting fired and a league commissioner probably getting fired. I'm open to whatever you want to call it, but if the New York Times did that they'd win Pulitzers. I know nothing about journalism, I'm just saying as far as results, TMZ has a lot to brag about.

[southsider2k5]

Kudos to TMZ for getting the tape. Now TMZ has gotten an NBA owner to be replaced (that was their expose on Sterling), Ray Rice suspended and an NFL owner likely canned. WOW. That's pretty powerful "journalism" work. Unprecedented journalism work. Of course they probably paid for the tape which is journalistically unethical I believe.

 

That said ... Ray Rice can never play football again. He knocked out a woman for gosh sakes. There are no excuses. How could any GM/owner sign off on acquiring Rice in the future? People make mistakes, sure, but you can't sign a person who knocks out a woman with a punch. You just can't.

And all these people that are speaking out like the announcer of the Niners who got suspended two games. What are they thinking? That guy got a 2 game suspension for saying stupid things.

 

He will be allowed to play again. Will anyone sign him will be the question.