Adrian Peterson indicted for negligent injury to a child

[ptatc]

No, and "it working" doesn't prove a thing.

Sure it does. Radisson pulled out. Nike pulled product. AB said they were disappointed in the action.

 

Words vs. action.

[ptatc]

Having sex isn't a crime.

 

Physically disciplining to the point of drawing blood is. Peterson admitted he did that. It doesn't matter how he phrased it.

The problem is that I'm not sure it's a crime everywhere. I read that in the town Peterson lives in Texas and where the incident occurred, it is still legal to paddle a kid in the public school as punishment.

 

This seems outrageous to me but he may not really get punished for this. Hopefully the trial is in Minnesota not Texas.

[StrangeSox]

The problem is that I'm not sure it's a crime everywhere. I read that in the town Peterson lives in Texas and where the incident occurred, it is still legal to paddle a kid in the public school as punishment.

 

This seems outrageous to me but he may not really get punished for this. Hopefully the trial is in Minnesota not Texas.

The incident happened in Texas I think, so that's where the trial would be. Texas and several other states still allow corporal punishment in public school.

[ptatc]

If you need a weapon to discipline your children, it means you are a failure as a parent.

True. But does that mean you should be banned from earning a living in the NFL? I'm really curious to the answer. We know Marshall turned his life around (so far) after being awful to women when he was younger.

 

Do Rice and Peterson deserve the chance to correct their behaviour and turn their lives around?

 

Is suspending these guys from the NFL the best way to help them reform?

[Dick Allen]

True. But does that mean you should be banned from earning a living in the NFL? I'm really curious to the answer. We know Marshall turned his life around (so far) after being awful to women when he was younger.

 

Do Rice and Peterson deserve the chance to correct their behaviour and turn their lives around?

 

Is suspending these guys from the NFL the best way to help them reform?

The suspensions aren't permanent. I fully expect Peterson to play again. Rice may be a different story because that video will never go away and the reason they make so much money is because of the people who are not going to be happy Rice is on the team they root for.

 

You commit crimes and are caught, you are subject to penalties. As the saying goes, playing in the NFL is a privilege, not a right. Expect to be held to a higher standard. And the standard to remain "eligible" isn't very high. Don't beat women. Don't beat kids.

 

It is not that hard to stay out of trouble. Plenty of bad actors never get suspended. The vast majority of players don't get suspended.

 

Olin Kreutz, who is supposed to be a jackass, was on the radio the other day, and he said something that is true. With oractice squads, there are probably around 2000 NFL players. There are about 5 or 6 guys, if that, bringing them all down right now.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Dick Allen

[LittleHurt05]

I despise these sorts of responses. Nothing against you personally, LH, but this is not an acceptable argument in this discussion. I agree with what I think you are trying to say, but no, they do not need to just go away. Believe it or not, not everything that is new is better than what is old, and not everything a future generation comes up with is correct while what the previous generation did was incorrect.

 

It is probably pretty safe to say that utilizing corporal punishment, especially anything greater than "light" corporal punishment, has potentially more harmful psychological effects than helpful lessons learned. However, it seems to me with that there seems to come a trade-off in terms of a lack of discipline and respect taught to children.

 

Yes, the asshole tone of my "go away" comment probably was a bit excessive and unhelpful. It's just that, "My mama did it and look at me now" is no reasoning. Had your mama not smacked you around, maybe you'd be an ever better person now, you don't know that. There's also plenty of kids out there whose entire lives were ruined by the same type of parenting.

 

If you think your kind of discipline is acceptable and/or necessary as parents, please explain why you think that, don't just say its because you went through the same thing, which doesn't automatically make it OK.

[IlliniKrush]

I despise these sorts of responses. Nothing against you personally, LH, but this is not an acceptable argument in this discussion. I agree with what I think you are trying to say, but no, they do not need to just go away. Believe it or not, not everything that is new is better than what is old, and not everything a future generation comes up with is correct while what the previous generation did was incorrect.

 

It is probably pretty safe to say that utilizing corporal punishment, especially anything greater than "light" corporal punishment, has potentially more harmful psychological effects than helpful lessons learned. However, it seems to me with that there seems to come a trade-off in terms of a lack of discipline and respect taught to children.

That crowd absolutely does need to go away. It's a shallow, stupid argument. I did it, so therefore I should do it to my kid. Oh yeah? Your parents did it to you, and now you take it out on them with a stick until they bleed. Good parenting.

 

Sorry, in my book hitting a kid is never OK. You're teaching them the easiest, laziest way to do something, just hit somebody. Which, in turn, makes them hitters to their children. But it's OK because "hey it happened to us." Just because it happened to you does not make it OK whatsoever to do it to your own child.

 

They turn it into a racial and regional thing, as if "you people don't understand," which is nonsense. You know what I understand? That hitting a kid is wrong. You're all bad parents for doing it, no matter what lazy line of reasoning you want to use.

 

[iamshack]

That crowd absolutely does need to go away. It's a shallow, stupid argument. I did it, so therefore I should do it to my kid. Oh yeah? Your parents did it to you, and now you take it out on them with a stick until they bleed. Good parenting.

 

Sorry, in my book hitting a kid is never OK. You're teaching them the easiest, laziest way to do something, just hit somebody. Which, in turn, makes them hitters to their children. But it's OK because "hey it happened to us." Just because it happened to you does not make it OK whatsoever to do it to your own child.

 

They turn it into a racial and regional thing, as if "you people don't understand," which is nonsense. You know what I understand? That hitting a kid is wrong. You're all bad parents for doing it, no matter what lazy line of reasoning you want to use.

First of all, no one is telling you that you cannot have your own opinions. But you should support them with reason and logic, not just because you say so. That is arrogant and obnoxious.

 

There have been a lot of people that have come before you and faced similar problems before. They have a lot of valuable experience which can be drawn upon. We need to invite everyone to the table and discuss issues and value their opinions and experiences. Not dismiss them out of hand because we are the latest generation with the benefit of the internet and other technologies and more money to spend on studies and develop theories.

 

The overwhelming evidence seems to suggest that corporal punishment, especially extreme corporal punishment, has adverse psychological effects. No one is saying to dig our head in the sand and ignore that. We are always learning, both individually and as a society and as a culture. However, an equally offensive practice is to dismiss out of hand the wealth of knowledge those generations that have come before us have accumulated and pass on to us because "they are old" or because "they are different."

 

While today''s generation of children may be better off as a result of escaping corporal punishment more than their predecessors, they also in many cases lack respect for their parents, their teachers, and their elders, and show a frightening lack of discipline and work ethic. They are overweight, have short attention spans, and are obsessed with instant gratification.

 

Is this the result of the pendulum swinging too far in the opposite direction? I tend to think so. While we may not be harming our children anymore with too much discipline, are we readying them to succeed and be generally good people still?

[StrangeSox]

While today''s generation of children may be better off as a result of escaping corporal punishment more than their predecessors, they also in many cases lack respect for their parents, their teachers, and their elders, and show a frightening lack of discipline and work ethic. They are overweight, have short attention spans, and are obsessed with instant gratification.

 

"Kids these days have it too easy, they're growing up to be a bunch of lazy, disrespectful ingrates" has been said about every generation ever.

[IlliniKrush]

First of all, no one is telling you that you cannot have your own opinions. But you should support them with reason and logic, not just because you say so. That is arrogant and obnoxious.

 

There have been a lot of people that have come before you and faced similar problems before. They have a lot of valuable experience which can be drawn upon. We need to invite everyone to the table and discuss issues and value their opinions and experiences. Not dismiss them out of hand because we are the latest generation with the benefit of the internet and other technologies and more money to spend on studies and develop theories.

 

The overwhelming evidence seems to suggest that corporal punishment, especially extreme corporal punishment, has adverse psychological effects. No one is saying to dig our head in the sand and ignore that. We are always learning, both individually and as a society and as a culture. However, an equally offensive practice is to dismiss out of hand the wealth of knowledge those generations that have come before us have accumulated and pass on to us because "they are old" or because "they are different."

 

While today''s generation of children may be better off as a result of escaping corporal punishment more than their predecessors, they also in many cases lack respect for their parents, their teachers, and their elders, and show a frightening lack of discipline and work ethic. They are overweight, have short attention spans, and are obsessed with instant gratification.

 

Is this the result of the pendulum swinging too far in the opposite direction? I tend to think so. While we may not be harming our children anymore with too much discipline, are we readying them to succeed and be generally good people still?

Your bold is EXACTLY why the "I was hit so it's OK" crowd needs to go away. Apply some logic to it, otherwise it's arrogant and obnoxious. I gave my reasons for why I think it's wrong and why it's lazy. It's wrong to hit a child, that's my opinion, disagree if you want, that's OK.

 

As far as the "elders know more than you" argument you're trying to start here, save it. Nonsense. I don't need to be told "hey, actually, hitting your kid is OK." It's not, in my opinion, no matter what some other older person is trying to tell me. I gain nothing from their experience or "knowledge" in this case.

 

If your kids are lazy, overweight, etc. all the things you say, then you're a bad parent, but I don't think the answer is "well had I hit them, everything would be great." It's not hit your kids OR don't parent at all.

 

Hitting a child results in that child then presumably hitting their child. Or hitting their wife (gee where have we seen that?). Violence begets violence. There are other ways to parent to control the things you listed.

 

[ptatc]

The suspensions aren't permanent. I fully expect Peterson to play again. Rice may be a different story because that video will never go away and the reason they make so much money is because of the people who are not going to be happy Rice is on the team they root for.

 

You commit crimes and are caught, you are subject to penalties. As the saying goes, playing in the NFL is a privilege, not a right. Expect to be held to a higher standard. And the standard to remain "eligible" isn't very high. Don't beat women. Don't beat kids.

 

It is not that hard to stay out of trouble. Plenty of bad actors never get suspended. The vast majority of players don't get suspended.

 

Olin Kreutz, who is supposed to be a jackass, was on the radio the other day, and he said something that is true. With oractice squads, there are probably around 2000 NFL players. There are about 5 or 6 guys, if that, bringing them all down right now.

I agree with everything you say. I'm just wondering if these guys will get a second chance because as with Marshall people can change behaviours. I'm not sure if people change but the behaviours can.

[iamshack]

"Kids these days have it too easy, they're growing up to be a bunch of lazy, disrespectful ingrates" has been said about every generation ever.

Yeah, I think we have all heard our parents or grandparents say this before. And I think it is something older people naturally say about younger people, probably out of envy much of the time.

 

However, between our food supply and incredibly rapid advances in technology, I think we've starting to reach a crucial tipping point.

 

The failure of some parents to administer any kind of discipline or exert appropriate control over their children is gravy.

 

Edit: And btw, just as every older generation has commented on the younger generations, the same goes for the younger generations. They all think they're so much smarter than the generations that came before them.

 

The point is that we are all in this together; we should use all of our available knowledge and experience.

Edited September 18, 2014 by iamshack

[iamshack]

Your bold is EXACTLY why the "I was hit so it's OK" crowd needs to go away. Apply some logic to it, otherwise it's arrogant and obnoxious. I gave my reasons for why I think it's wrong and why it's lazy. It's wrong to hit a child, that's my opinion, disagree if you want, that's OK.

 

As far as the "elders know more than you" argument you're trying to start here, save it. Nonsense. I don't need to be told "hey, actually, hitting your kid is OK." It's not, in my opinion, no matter what some other older person is trying to tell me. I gain nothing from their experience or "knowledge" in this case.

 

If your kids are lazy, overweight, etc. all the things you say, then you're a bad parent, but I don't think the answer is "well had I hit them, everything would be great." It's not hit your kids OR don't parent at all.

 

Hitting a child results in that child then presumably hitting their child. Or hitting their wife (gee where have we seen that?). Violence begets violence. There are other ways to parent to control the things you listed.

You're missing the point entirely.

 

 

[IlliniKrush]

You're missing the point entirely.

Because I don't agree with your point (or the "I was hit with a stick so it's OK" crowd), I'm missing it.

 

Now seeing your edit - this has nothing to do with the younger generation thinking they are smarter than the older generation. This is about me thinking that hitting a child is wrong. The end. You don't know that I haven't talked to older generations to help form that opinion, do you? Do you think the overwhelming majority of this "older generation" think hitting a child is OK? I doubt it. So, I am listening to the older generation, just not the ones you'd like me to listen to. Your own posts states that research shows it's bad, right? That's coming from an older generation, I presume?

 

If you think hitting a child is OK, go for it. But please stop the nonsense of I'm just a young, ignorant whippersnapper that doesn't understand that it might be OK to hit your kid with a stick until they bleed, so I should listen to these older, wiser people who beat their children with a stick.

Edited September 18, 2014 by IlliniKrush

[Jake]

66% of smokers don't get cancer. Chances are if you run into a smoker, they're coming out okay

[iamshack]

Because I don't agree with your point (or the "I was hit with a stick so it's OK" crowd), I'm missing it.

Not at all.

 

Because you come off as an obnoxious know-it all on a majority of your posts. You offer very strong opinions, often without any real reasoning or justification behind them. You insult those who disagree with you, and expect them to understand simply because you say so. Whether it is hockey, umpiring, or social issues.

 

I find it irritating, not because I even disagree with your opinion often, but because you so seldom attempt to offer any reasoning/justification for it. I also find it incredibly disrespectful to those from other generations or cultures.

 

I don't know you, but you don't strike me as some social/cultural trailblazer or pioneer. You generally trend liberal on social issues, but you're certainly not offering anything innovative or new. Basically, you're falling right into cultural/generational norms. And yet, you're criticizing those in other cultures/generations for doing the same. I find that irritating and ignorant.

 

This has nothing to do with me disagreeing with you on punishing a child. I am in complete agreement with your opinion on this issue. It is the way in which you are expressing it which I am in disagreement.

[Iwritecode]

While today''s generation of children may be better off as a result of escaping corporal punishment more than their predecessors, they also in many cases lack respect for their parents, their teachers, and their elders, and show a frightening lack of discipline and work ethic. They are overweight, have short attention spans, and are obsessed with instant gratification.

 

The failure of some parents to administer any kind of discipline or exert appropriate control over their children is gravy.

 

I think you’ve gone to the opposite extreme of no discipline at all. There are ways to discipline children other than hitting them.

 

The thing is you have to start when they are young and you have to be consistent. Being a parent is not easy.

 

[iamshack]

I think you’ve gone to the opposite extreme of no discipline at all. There are ways to discipline children other than hitting them.

 

The thing is you have to start when they are young and you have to be consistent. Being a parent is not easy.

I agree. I think some parents have gone to this opposite extreme, however.

[Balta1701]

You're missing the point entirely.

The problem with your point is that the connection you made is anecdotal, looking at a correlation between "increasing bad things" and suggesting maybe they're related to decreases in this type of behavior. However, this leaves me the ability to argue against it by demonstrating where this correlation breaks down, and it does if you go to either state level numbers or racial numbers (racial numbers appear to dominate, btw). For example, the states with the most lenient discipline policies, like for example Texas, also are the states with the highest obesity rates, so if obesity increases and the decline of physical punishment are correlated, we'd expect the opposite. Furthermore, the rate of reported (not convicted as far as I can tell) abuse is far higher amongst the african american community than other races and the rate of obesity is similarly highest amongst that group.

[IlliniKrush]

Not at all.

 

Because you come off as an obnoxious know-it all on a majority of your posts. You offer very strong opinions, often without any real reasoning or justification behind them. You insult those who disagree with you, and expect them to understand simply because you say so. Whether it is hockey, umpiring, or social issues.

 

I find it irritating, not because I even disagree with your opinion often, but because you so seldom attempt to offer any reasoning/justification for it. I also find it incredibly disrespectful to those from other generations or cultures.

 

I don't know you, but you don't strike me as some social/cultural trailblazer or pioneer. You generally trend liberal on social issues, but you're certainly not offering anything innovative or new. Basically, you're falling right into cultural/generational norms. And yet, you're criticizing those in other cultures/generations for doing the same. I find that irritating and ignorant.

 

This has nothing to do with me disagreeing with you on punishing a child. I am in complete agreement with your opinion on this issue. It is the way in which you are expressing it which I am in disagreement.

I've provided my reasoning and justification, and I do in almost every post. Now you're just making stuff up. I haven't attacked you once.

 

As for the rest of your post, go read my edit. You make so many assumptions. I'm not exactly sure who you're defending here.

[iamshack]

The problem with your point is that the connection you made is anecdotal, looking at a correlation between "increasing bad things" and suggesting maybe they're related to decreases in this type of behavior. However, this leaves me the ability to argue against it by demonstrating where this correlation breaks down, and it does if you go to either state level numbers or racial numbers (racial numbers appear to dominate, btw). For example, the states with the most lenient discipline policies, like for example Texas, also are the states with the highest obesity rates, so if obesity increases and the decline of physical punishment are correlated, we'd expect the opposite. Furthermore, the rate of reported (not convicted as far as I can tell) abuse is far higher amongst the african american community than other races and the rate of obesity is similarly highest amongst that group.

I'm not saying a decline in discipline results in obesity.

[iamshack]

I've provided my reasoning and justification, and I do in almost every post. Now you're just making stuff up. I haven't attacked you once.

 

As for the rest of your post, go read my edit. You make so many assumptions. I'm not exactly sure who you're defending here.

This has nothing to do with you attacking anyone. And I am not defending anyone. I'm encouraging you to not be so offensive to those who don't share your opinion, or at the least, to substantiate your very strongly worded opinions with some sort of reason or logic.

 

This notion that folks from previous generations who reference their experience with discipline need to "go away" is offensive to me. It offers very little to the conversation and doesn't particularly allow anyone to learn anything. I'm just supposed to agree with you and take your word for it.

 

 

[Balta1701]

I'm not saying a decline in discipline results in obesity.

While today''s generation of children may be better off as a result of escaping corporal punishment more than their predecessors, they also in many cases lack respect for their parents, their teachers, and their elders, and show a frightening lack of discipline and work ethic. They are overweight, have short attention spans, and are obsessed with instant gratification.

I'm only working with what you give me. The other ones, "degree of respect" are harder to calculate, and that makes it much easier to claim that it is increasing because there is little data to support those points.

 

IT's also interesting to note that in general, the students in US Schools have been performing better over the past decade even if we hear mostly about the opposite, which is in the opposite direction as well and might be something that can be quantified.

[iamshack]

I'm only working with what you give me. The other ones, "degree of respect" are harder to calculate, and that makes it much easier to claim that it is increasing because there is little data to support those points.

 

IT's also interesting to note that in general, the students in US Schools have been performing better over the past decade even if we hear mostly about the opposite, which is in the opposite direction as well and might be something that can be quantified.

I'm not stating those things are caused directly by a lack of discipline. I'm saying those things coupled with a lack of discipline are problematic.

 

You might have noticed I mentioned what I believe might be causes after that post, and those included our food supply and rapid advances in technology.

[LittleHurt05]

This has nothing to do with you attacking anyone. And I am not defending anyone. I'm encouraging you to not be so offensive to those who don't share your opinion, or at the least, to substantiate your very strongly worded opinions with some sort of reason or logic.

 

This notion that folks from previous generations who reference their experience with discipline need to "go away" is offensive to me. It offers very little to the conversation and doesn't particularly allow anyone to learn anything. I'm just supposed to agree with you and take your word for it.

 

What does "My mama beat me and I think I turned out OK" offer to the conversation?