Addison Reed trade from DBacks' perspective

[Y2Jimmy0]

Even today, I'd rather have Davidson than Reed.

 

Davidson's upside is huge. Closers are replaced every year.

 

 

Great post. This is how I feel about it as well. Reed just isn't a valuable piece to the White Sox. Davidson might be.

[Buehrle>Wood]

I'd rather have Reed going forward now than Davidson. Certainly didn't think that last offseason.

[bmags]

Pitching in the NL is easier than the AL. Reed probably wouldn't look bad in the Sox pen but stink seems to spread on this team.

 

Is this true even for bullpen?

[southsider2k5]

I'd rather have Reed going forward now than Davidson. Certainly didn't think that last offseason.

 

With Reed's price tag about to go up, and coming off of a bad year, it would be tough to choose.

[Dick Allen]

This is hysterical. If Rick Hahn traded Matt Davidson and he hit .199 with 164 strikeouts in AAA for Arizona and acquired Addison Reed, the people who still say they would rather have Davidson, would not be saying that. Matt Davidson sucks. He cannot make contact against AAA pitchers. Look at all the high k guys who are at least anywhere near mediocre at the major league level and look at their k rates in AAA. Not only can't he hit, he is bad defensively.

 

I also love the "about to become expensive" line. What, expensive like Belisario or Downs or Lindstrom? Get off it, he isn't going to be expensive unless he is lights out, and if he was lights out, it sure would look good in the White Sox bullpen. A lot better than some guy flailing away in Charlotte.

[southsider2k5]

This is hysterical. If Rick Hahn traded Matt Davidson and he hit .199 with 164 strikeouts in AAA for Arizona and acquired Addison Reed, the people who still say they would rather have Davidson, would not be saying that. Matt Davidson sucks. He cannot make contact against AAA pitchers. Look at all the high k guys who are at least anywhere near mediocre at the major league level and look at their k rates in AAA. Not only can't he hit, he is bad defensively.

 

I also love the "about to become expensive" line. What, expensive like Belisario or Downs or Lindstrom? Get off it, he isn't going to be expensive unless he is lights out, and if he was lights out, it sure would look good in the White Sox bullpen. A lot better than some guy flailing away in Charlotte.

 

Today, would you be trading prospects for Beli, Downs, or Lindstrom? Get off it indeed.

[ChiSox_Sonix]

IIRC, there was only one poster here who openly disagreed with the trade in the first 24 hours of its aftermath.

 

IIRC, that same poster also advocates for 26 year old AA journeymen to be promoted and gives up on 19 and 20 year old kids in single-A who don't immediately set the world on fire so there's also that

[Dick Allen]

Today, would you be trading prospects for Beli, Downs, or Lindstrom? Get off it indeed.

That is not what I wrote. I haven't seen anyone complain about the price for those guys, which is about equal to or more than what Reed will cost next season, let alone his near minimum this year. If $3 million is expensive, Addison Reed's replacement is going to be just as expensive or even more than him.

[southsider2k5]

That is not what I wrote. I haven't seen anyone complain about the price for those guys, which is about equal to or more than what Reed will cost next season, let alone his near minimum this year. If $3 million is expensive, Addison Reed's replacement is going to be just as expensive or even more than him.

 

To equate the Reed hypothetical to the scenario you just envisioned, we would need to be sending Davidson to another team in exchange for a statistically declining reliever making a decent relievers salary.

 

You are the one who mentioned the three horseman of the Suck-pocalypse as some sort of equals, not me.

 

Again, no one is trading anyone for those guys, so your scenario doesn't work outside of an opportunity to mention failed relievers as a non-sequitur.

[Dick Allen]

To equate the Reed hypothetical to the scenario you just envisioned, we would need to be sending Davidson to another team in exchange for a statistically declining reliever making a decent relievers salary.

 

You are the one who mentioned the three horseman of the Suck-pocalypse as some sort of equals, not me.

 

Again, no one is trading anyone for those guys, so your scenario doesn't work outside of an opportunity to mention failed relievers as a non-sequitur.

I never mentioned trading any of them. I just said if the trade was the other way, and Hahn got Reed for Davidson, all those saying they would still rather have Davidson would be singing a different tune. They would say he won the trade.

On a board where people actually rip the manager for not using Snodgrass in a key situation, a guy who has retired 7 hitters in his career and has given up 7 runs 8 hits and 3 walks, it boggles my mind people just don't want to say it turned out that the Reed/Davidson swap didn't work outfor the White Sox.

People can hold out hope, but when you hit .199 with 164 strikeouts in year 2 of AAA , you are going to be an exception if you become useful at the big league level.

[Balta1701]

I never mentioned trading any of them. I just said if the trade was the other way, and Hahn got Reed for Davidson, all those saying they would still rather have Davidson would be singing a different tune. They would say he won the trade.

On a board where people actually rip the manager for not using Snodgrass in a key situation, a guy who has retired 7 hitters in his career and has given up 7 runs 8 hits and 3 walks, it boggles my mind people just don't want to say it turned out that the Reed/Davidson swap didn't work outfor the White Sox.

People can hold out hope, but when you hit .199 with 164 strikeouts in year 2 of AAA , you are going to be an exception if you become useful at the big league level.

The White Sox once traded Brandon Allen for pitcher Tony Pena. Brandon Allen never did anything, hit .203 across 4 big league seasons. Technically we won that deal. I still didn't like it and still ugh at the thought of it today.

[shysocks]

People can hold out hope, but when you hit .199 with 164 strikeouts in year 2 of AAA , you are going to be an exception if you become useful at the big league level.

That is a factual statement.

 

/inserting myself into this subject because I'm an idiot

[Dick Allen]

The White Sox once traded Brandon Allen for pitcher Tony Pena. Brandon Allen never did anything, hit .203 across 4 big league seasons. Technically we won that deal. I still didn't like it and still ugh at the thought of it today.

There were some guarantees of All Star appearances the night of that trade for Allen. Reed is better than Pena though.

 

White Sox prospects have been so bad, any with a pulse gave people hope in that era.

[Balta1701]

There were some guarantees of All Star appearances the night of that trade for Allen. Reed is better than Pena though.

 

White Sox prospects have been so bad, any with a pulse gave people hope in that era.

And I'd say that talent-wise, even after this season, Davidson is still better than Allen.

[southsider2k5]

The White Sox once traded Brandon Allen for pitcher Tony Pena. Brandon Allen never did anything, hit .203 across 4 big league seasons. Technically we won that deal. I still didn't like it and still ugh at the thought of it today.

 

And that deal was universally hated when it happened.

[southsider2k5]

I never mentioned trading any of them. I just said if the trade was the other way, and Hahn got Reed for Davidson, all those saying they would still rather have Davidson would be singing a different tune. They would say he won the trade.

On a board where people actually rip the manager for not using Snodgrass in a key situation, a guy who has retired 7 hitters in his career and has given up 7 runs 8 hits and 3 walks, it boggles my mind people just don't want to say it turned out that the Reed/Davidson swap didn't work outfor the White Sox.

People can hold out hope, but when you hit .199 with 164 strikeouts in year 2 of AAA , you are going to be an exception if you become useful at the big league level.

 

Then it isn't an equal comparison.

[Dick Allen]

And I'd say that talent-wise, even after this season, Davidson is still better than Allen.

Allen was rated #85 the offseason after he was traded and 99 the offseason before he was dealt. As a 23 year old in 167 AB at Reno hit .324/.413/1.055 with 12 HR and 25 K. His numbers did drop a little as a 24 year old, but he still was putting up an OPS over 900 and struck out at about 65% of Davidson's rate.

 

Saying Davidson is better is based on nothing.

Edited September 24, 2014 by Dick Allen

[Dick Allen]

Good stuff, DA. The only thing that would make Davidson a superior prospect to Allen would be their positions.

And the line Arizona leaked was they didn't think Davidson could stick at 3B. I am sure , though, that was at least a little PR induced, although he isn't exactly Adrian Beltre with the glove.

 

It doesn't matter now. I hope Davidson is better and can buck the odds and be what they thought he would be. It is just that right now, that doesn't seem like a bet many would take. The odds are better than winning the Powerball. So we have that going for us.

[Eminor3rd]

This is hysterical. If Rick Hahn traded Matt Davidson and he hit .199 with 164 strikeouts in AAA for Arizona and acquired Addison Reed, the people who still say they would rather have Davidson, would not be saying that. Matt Davidson sucks. He cannot make contact against AAA pitchers. Look at all the high k guys who are at least anywhere near mediocre at the major league level and look at their k rates in AAA. Not only can't he hit, he is bad defensively.

 

I also love the "about to become expensive" line. What, expensive like Belisario or Downs or Lindstrom? Get off it, he isn't going to be expensive unless he is lights out, and if he was lights out, it sure would look good in the White Sox bullpen. A lot better than some guy flailing away in Charlotte.

 

I think you're missing the point of the arguments that are being made. Or at least what I'm making.

 

Based on what we knew when the trade was made, I'll make it every time. If you told me Davidson would have about as bad a season as we could imagine, I wouldn't want him. But the idea of trading Addison Reed for a top-100 caliber 3B prospect in AAA is fantastic no matter which way you turn it.

 

Now, if you want to say the White Sox missed the boat on the scouting and maybe even argue that the only reason we could make the deal is that AZ knew he was overrated, then I think that's legit. But it's separate from the idea of making the deal based on what we knew at the time.

[max power]

What do you think AZ could get for Reed today?

[Chisoxfn]

And the line Arizona leaked was they didn't think Davidson could stick at 3B. I am sure , though, that was at least a little PR induced, although he isn't exactly Adrian Beltre with the glove.

 

It doesn't matter now. I hope Davidson is better and can buck the odds and be what they thought he would be. It is just that right now, that doesn't seem like a bet many would take. The odds are better than winning the Powerball. So we have that going for us.

Not many guys have had success at the next level with some of the periph's he has put up. We aren't talking about a 19 year old with these periph's. Power potential sure, but also nothing that looks like a plus defensive plus anything else. I think the odds are highly against Davidson and I wouldn't be surprised if the Sox cut bait on him for another teams failed prospect. I hope I'm wrong but Davidson was a prospect who probably did more to hurt his status then almost any other prospect in baseball this year (non injury related).

[Chisoxfn]

What do you think AZ could get for Reed today?

Not a whole lot.

[Rowand44]

I don't want either.

[Chisoxfn]

With Reed's price tag about to go up, and coming off of a bad year, it would be tough to choose.

It really isn't. Davidson is beyond awful. Reed, while flawed himself, is at least a solid major league player and a guy that can be a solid piece to your pen. Elite closer, no, good closer, probably not, better then what we have, absolutely and he is a guy who could and should get better. If he gets too expensive in a year or two and production isn't there, non tender him. What is the loss...it isn't like Davidson is going to get anything.

 

Under no circumstances would the Sox be able to flip Davidson back for Reed this year (unless we gave up something else). I would be stunned if Davidson is even in the Sox future plans at this point. Yes, I'm sure they have a plan laid out for him but I would imagine he is no longer the 3B on their big board.

[Chisoxfn]

To equate the Reed hypothetical to the scenario you just envisioned, we would need to be sending Davidson to another team in exchange for a statistically declining reliever making a decent relievers salary.

 

You are the one who mentioned the three horseman of the Suck-pocalypse as some sort of equals, not me.

 

Again, no one is trading anyone for those guys, so your scenario doesn't work outside of an opportunity to mention failed relievers as a non-sequitur.

Under no circumstances could we trade Davidson for Addison Reed right now. Under none. Reed has > trade value then Davidson.