Ventura unlikely to be fired this off season

[2nd_city_saint787]

They can only deal with the talent given them. I don't think anyone's blaming Ventura for defense...except for the consistent lollygagging that was seen out of some players.

Managers can make proper lineup decisions, bullpen decisions, strategic decisions, and handle the clubhouse properly so that the team plays hard.

Manager is very important.

One person wants to compare Ventura to Madden; the next to a 2X WS champion manager.

 

For some reason people hold Ventura up as some White Sox icon above all critique.

 

And much like DA wasn't trying to compare Robin and Madden, I wasn't really trying to compare Robin and Francona....You may not have blamed him for the defense but others sure have made it seem like he's part of the problem. So I was simply pointing out that even guys perceived as a good managers have teams who are awful defensively.

 

They're important to an extent, but as crazy as it sounds I still agree with what Hawk said last year about any ol fan being able to coach a team.

[Chisoxfn]

They can only deal with the talent given them. I don't think anyone's blaming Ventura for defense...except for the consistent lollygagging that was seen out of some players.

Managers can make proper lineup decisions, bullpen decisions, strategic decisions, and handle the clubhouse properly so that the team plays hard.

Manager is very important.

One person wants to compare Ventura to Madden; the next to a 2X WS champion manager.

 

For some reason people hold Ventura up as some White Sox icon above all critique.

Saw a study in the wall street journal last week and it mentioned the Sox were amongst the league leaders in hits saved from the shift (and the actual % saved was also amongst league leaders...top 5 if I recall correctly). Found it interesting. Not sure if it was just luck or what, but Rays actually ranked amongst the worst teams in the league this year, which surprised me.

[shysocks]

The Sox are sitting at at 10-9 in September. Robin's driving us into the ditch before the finish line again.

[southsider2k5]

The Sox are sitting at at 10-9 in September. Robin's driving us into the ditch before the finish line again.

 

Probably the best example out there showing the team hasn't quit, which means he is still getting through to a team, even when they have no reason to be playing hard.

[LDF]

Probably the best example out there showing the team hasn't quit, which means he is still getting through to a team, even when they have no reason to be playing hard.

 

you are right, this is the best double edge sword possible. the sox, manager, players and

prospects playing the best and are giving its best. if its any team who may be trying to

tank, would have did a better call to call up prospect who will not be a factor. in addition

the daily lineup would not again be a factor.

 

now the negative side is lousy ground for a higher draft pick. would the sox have

gain enuf ground to be a top 5 pick. but a 6-10 would be a nice set of prospects

to help the rebuild.

[southsider2k5]

White Sox Talk ‏@CSNWhiteSox 29m29 minutes ago

 

Hahn: Ventura doing an 'excellent' job given circumstances - http://ift.tt/1vV1nxZ #WhiteSoxTalk

[witesoxfan]

White Sox Talk ‏@CSNWhiteSox 29m29 minutes ago

 

Hahn: Ventura doing an 'excellent' job given circumstances - http://ift.tt/1vV1nxZ #WhiteSoxTalk

 

Anybody calling for Ventura to be fired is barking up the wrong tree. Next year is going to matter a hell of a lot more.

[flavum]

Anybody calling for Ventura to be fired is barking up the wrong tree. Next year is going to matter a hell of a lot more.

 

Hopefully the roster will show up to Glendale with a lot higher expectations. If the team under performs next year, then it may be time to change things. But let's face it- Ventura is in the Reinsdorf Circle of Trust, and he generally doesn't pay for two managers.

[The Ginger Kid]

That roundtable discussion was pretty jaw-dropping in its ignorance. "They need 2 outfielders." Really? Avisail Garcia anyone? "They've been to the playoffs once in the last 9 years." 2005 and 2008? Isn't that twice?

 

Anyway, I do have to agree that Ventura needs to get better at getting more out of his players. But I disagree with the idea that he's "disinterested."

[BlackSox13]

I'm all for giving Robin a chance to manage a good team before anything is to be determined. Its not Robin's fault for the injuries, the failed reclamation projects, the down years a few players had or the fact the Sox are in a rebuild. Robin can only manage what he's given.

 

It must have been very difficult going to the pen and not know which inept schlep to chose. I say give Robin 1-2 more years of learning while the Sox finish putting together a contender. After that, no excuses.

[Balta1701]

I'm all for giving Robin a chance to manage a good team before anything is to be determined. Its not Robin's fault for the injuries, the failed reclamation projects, the down years a few players had or the fact the Sox are in a rebuild. Robin can only manage what he's given.

 

It must have been very difficult going to the pen and not know which inept schlep to chose. I say give Robin 1-2 more years of learning while the Sox finish putting together a contender. After that, no excuses.

Depends on how much they spend this offseason.

 

They go out and spend $40 million+ on free agents, which they could do, and miss the playoffs next year, that manager's job better darn well be on the line.

[BlackSox13]

Depends on how much they spend this offseason.

 

They go out and spend $40 million+ on free agents, which they could do, and miss the playoffs next year, that manager's job better darn well be on the line.

That certainly depends on player performances. Robin cannot swing the bat, field the ball or pitch the ball for the players. The players must be held accountable with the manager if the team underachieves.

[Dick Allen]

Depends on how much they spend this offseason.

 

They go out and spend $40 million+ on free agents, which they could do, and miss the playoffs next year, that manager's job better darn well be on the line.

You always post like any money spent on players is coming from your bank account.

 

Why wouldn't spending a ton of money on players who can't play be on the guy actually signing them?

 

Is it Robin's fault Keppinger sucked? Paulino? Downs? Belisario?

 

Then it must be Robin's pure genius that made Abreu a star.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Dick Allen

[Chisoxfn]

This is the year that matters for Robin. We should have higher expectations and see development. If we don't, then this is the year we talk about whether Robin is the right guy. Past 2 years have been about player development, right attitude, etc. Yeah, you want to compete, but no one could have competed with the bullpen Robin had and well to be frank, he can't play defense and we have a lot of guys that are just bad defensive players. However, for those young ones who have the tools, his success is going to be very dependent on the player development side and the fundemental development side and whether these guys can take the next step.

 

Robin isn't leading the Yankees, his staff is going to have to be good on the player development side as that is a large part of how we are going to succeed and while it starts in the minors, it continues at the major league level based upon how we are operating as a franchise.

[Balta1701]

You always post like any money spent on players is coming from your bank account.

 

Why wouldn't spending a ton of money on players who can't play be on the guy actually signing them?

 

Is it Robin's fault Keppinger sucked? Paulino? Downs? Belisario?

 

Then it must be Robin's pure genius that made Abreu a star.

So in your world, it's totally impossible for a manager to ever make a serious difference in how a roster performs and managers should just have their positions until they want to retire. Right? After all, what serious standard are you willing to use to evaluate a manager?

 

If the guy isn't drunk off his ass the whole day, it's the players who perform or don't perform, and that standard applies whether they blow up in the postseason or on day 1 of the season.

[Eminor3rd]

I just don't see Robin Ventura as one of even the top ten issues that our team needs to address.

[Rowand44]

I just don't see Robin Ventura as one of even the top ten issues that our team needs to address.

Agreed.

[Dick Allen]

So in your world, it's totally impossible for a manager to ever make a serious difference in how a roster performs and managers should just have their positions until they want to retire. Right? After all, what serious standard are you willing to use to evaluate a manager?

 

If the guy isn't drunk off his ass the whole day, it's the players who perform or don't perform, and that standard applies whether they blow up in the postseason or on day 1 of the season.

You made the remark that he needs to be held accountable depending on money spent, not me. Simply judging a manager by how the wins correlate with the payroll is ridiculous.

 

I don't agree with everything Robin does, but unlike some, I do realize this isn't a 130 win team with a guy from a message board managing it. Baseball isn't like poker. You can't bluff your way to many wins with a bad hand, and the hand is the responsibility of someone else. If the White Sox spend money on bad players, that is on the GM. If the White Sox have good players and can't win, then by all means blame the manager. There have been so many moves made this postseason where if Robin made them, they would be considered fireable offenses here.

 

 

[LittleHurt05]

I just don't see Robin Ventura as one of even the top ten issues that our team needs to address.

 

If Ned Yost can reach the ALCS, there is no reason why Robin can't.

[Rowand44]

If Ned Yost can reach the ALCS, there is no reason why Robin can't.

That's the thing, you can win despite of your manager in baseball even if he is completely incompetent.

[southsider2k5]

That's the thing, you can win despite of your manager in baseball even if he is completely incompetent.

 

There is the rub. Looking at the Royals, especially on April 1, who would have said that looks like an ALCS team based on their talent level?

[BlackSox13]

Why wouldn't spending a ton of money on players who can't play be on the guy actually signing them?

 

Is it Robin's fault Keppinger sucked? Paulino? Downs? Belisario?

Exactly. If Robin is to be held accountable for poor performances then the Hahn must be held accountable as well since Hahn is the one that signed the players in the first place. Robin manages what Hahn gives him.

 

Interesting how Robin is a bad manager, Hahn is doing a good job as the GM but the overall team was bad and Robin should be fired? That's some logic beyond my understanding.

 

 

[Boopa1219]

I think Robin is doing a good job, and is the right manager for the Sox. He's been doing the best with what he has to work with, and he's been doing great when it comes to developing some of the young players on the roster.

 

You can not blame him (Or Hahn) for what happened with the bullpen and now that all the dead weight is off the team he can really establish a winning culture and attitude in the clubhouse.

 

 

[Balta1701]

You made the remark that he needs to be held accountable depending on money spent, not me. Simply judging a manager by how the wins correlate with the payroll is ridiculous.

 

I don't agree with everything Robin does, but unlike some, I do realize this isn't a 130 win team with a guy from a message board managing it. Baseball isn't like poker. You can't bluff your way to many wins with a bad hand, and the hand is the responsibility of someone else. If the White Sox spend money on bad players, that is on the GM. If the White Sox have good players and can't win, then by all means blame the manager. There have been so many moves made this postseason where if Robin made them, they would be considered fireable offenses here.

At least one of the managers of a postseason team was just fired. I assume you think that's a bad idea?

[Chisoxfn]

At least one of the managers of a postseason team was just fired. I assume you think that's a bad idea?

That is a team that had talent and had a disasterous clubhouse and underplayed their level of talent. What part of coaching to the level of talent is missing in the concept. Firing a guy cause they don't make the playoffs because you have a bad roster is just foolish, unless there were things from a player development standpoint and grander scale which you have issues with. Reality is team played hard for Robin till the end, players got along, young guys got chances, some guys took step forward, etc. Bottom line this was never a playoff team and the team didn't underachieve drastically and if it did it was because our pen was terrible not because Robin was terrible. There is zero logical reason to fire Robin given his current contract, etc.

 

And I don't know what manager you are referring to but I'm presuming you are assuming Donny baseball gets fired. Well, he made some poor baseball decisions and there were significant chemistry issues in the clubhouse, etc. Oh and this was a 2nd consecutive year with playoff disappointments. It also was a team loaded with talent, including arguably the best 3 man rotation in baseball with Kershaw, Grienke, Ryu.