Reds as Trade Partners

[The Ultimate Champion]

"In Thursday’s edition of his Insider-only blog, ESPN’s Buster Olney opines that the Reds should give serious thought to trading ace Johnny Cueto this offseason. Cueto has a no-brainer $10MM club option for 2015, making him a highly affordable and elite talent — an appealing alternative to clubs in win-now mode that don’t want to commit long-term dollars to Max Scherzer, Jon Lester or James Shields. The Reds will see Cueto, Mat Latos and Mike Leake hit free agency following the 2015 season, with Aroldis Chapman set to do the same the following year. Those losses, coupled with the rising salary of Joey Votto, give the Reds incentive to create some flexibility and add prospect depth. Olney wonders if the Reds could look to pair Cueto with Brandon Phillips in an effort to free themselves of the $36MM remaining on the second baseman’s deal. Of course, even if a team were to take on Phillips, they’d still likely need to surrender notable prospect value."

 

That's on MLBTR's page. I know it's probably too good to be true & not sure we'd have or would be willing to give up the pieces, but a #2 RHP is a need & the Reds have 3 that would fit the bill. They also want to dump Phillips (we have a hole at 2B) and want to shed salary (we have payroll room).

 

So slurpee slurpe fap time? Maybe? I'll take Cueto especially....

[witesoxfan]

Phillips is a very bad option for the Sox moving forward. He turned 33 in June, is signed for $39 million over the next 3 seasons, and this is the 3rd year in a row (base year of 2011) where his numbers have decreased. He is just not a good player anymore.

 

I love the idea of acquiring a guy like Cueto (who is getting absolutely no love for the Cy Young and should be - 2.33 ERA, 3.29 FIP, 3.24 xFIP, leading the NL in IP) or Latos, but at what cost? A guy like that is going to cost a hell of a lot plus you'd have to re-sign him following the season.

 

 

[Chicago White Sox]

Acquiring a 2B would be a terrible use of resources.

[Eminor3rd]

There's no way way in hell we'd win the bidding for Cueto. Someone will pay more than we can pay.

 

I know I'm a buzzkill but man it's true. It's not even plausible.

 

I've spent a big portion of my life steeling myself from being let down, and maybe I've paid for it emotionally and I don't have as much fun as I could. Is it worth it to sacrifice the highs to avoid the lows? Sure doesn't sound like it when you put it THAT way.

[Leonard Zelig]

I would be OK with trading Viciedo for Cueto.

[ChiSox59]

I would be OK with trading Viciedo for Cueto.

 

Aaa and Jocketty would tell you to put down the bong.

[JoshPR]

LOL

[The Ultimate Champion]

Phillips is a very bad option for the Sox moving forward. He turned 33 in June, is signed for $39 million over the next 3 seasons, and this is the 3rd year in a row (base year of 2011) where his numbers have decreased. He is just not a good player anymore.

 

I love the idea of acquiring a guy like Cueto (who is getting absolutely no love for the Cy Young and should be - 2.33 ERA, 3.29 FIP, 3.24 xFIP, leading the NL in IP) or Latos, but at what cost? A guy like that is going to cost a hell of a lot plus you'd have to re-sign him following the season.

Yeah I was just thinking, maybe we could take that in exchange for a lighter prospect load.

 

I really agree that this is a long shot. We'd give up a lot, maybe take back a bad contract too, and then whoever we traded for would just sign elsewhere.

 

Why is Homer Bailey on the 60 day DL though? Maybe that's more of an option.

 

Anyway Latos would be nice and Cueto would be just dreamy .... creamy dreamy ....

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

We have a lot of money freed up. DatDudeDP is not that good anymore. He will end up with a WAR south of 2 this season. However, if we can use that as a way of getting the price down for Cueto, I'd be willing to bite that contract bullet.

[witesoxfan]

There's no way way in hell we'd win the bidding for Cueto. Someone will pay more than we can pay.

 

I know I'm a buzzkill but man it's true. It's not even plausible.

 

I've spent a big portion of my life steeling myself from being let down, and maybe I've paid for it emotionally and I don't have as much fun as I could. Is it worth it to sacrifice the highs to avoid the lows? Sure doesn't sound like it when you put it THAT way.

 

What is actually working in favor of the Reds right now is, ironically, the Homer Bailey extension. They've shown the other 29 teams that they have no problem dishing out a lot of money to keep their talented pitchers. So, unlike the Twins in the Johan Santana situation where the Twins forced themselves into a corner and had to accept the best bad offer given to them (which still netted them Carlos Gomez who is one of the better all around players in the game right now, just not for the Twins). It's also unlike the David Price situation too, where I think the Rays got fairly decent value out of the whole thing.

[southsider2k5]

I am going to say this. We need offense more than we need pitching. We the limited resources we have, I think it would hurt the franchise more than it would help it in the long run to give up the haul that would be needed to get a guy like Cueto here. The starting pitching staff is the area that has the least to gain from a big infusion of a top flight talent. We have a guy like Carlos Rodon waiting in the wings, who could be as good, or better, than Cueto, without giving up anything.

[fathom]

IIRC, Leake was someone the Sox were supposedly interested this past offseason

[Quin]

We have a lot of money freed up. DatDudeDP is not that good anymore. He will end up with a WAR south of 2 this season. However, if we can use that as a way of getting the price down for Cueto, I'd be willing to bite that contract bullet.

 

It reminds me of Miggy being paired with D-Train. If it brings down the price, I'm ok with it.

 

Edit: Just saw that it was the Tigers that extended Willis. Nevermind.

[fathom]

It would make no sense for the Sox to trade for Cueto with him being a FA after 2015. He's going to be seeking something in the range of 25 mil per year. I've heard Boston is a possible spot for him, which would make sense as they have a ton of money/prospects to use to acquire players.

[The Ultimate Champion]

I'm going to take my shoes off. Matter of fact, I'm going to take my sweater off, too.

 

Let's just pretend for a second.

 

It's okay to pretend.

 

I like to pretend, and I bet you like to pretend too. Lots of boys and girls like to play pretend.

 

Oh look here's the little trolley, why don't we take a visit to The World of Make Believe...

 

Sale - Game 1

Cueto - Game 2

Quintana - Game 3

Rodon/Noesi/whoever is healthy & hot - Game 4, and if not, maybe Sale on short rest (why not?)

 

Yeah.

 

Now lets take the pants off too.

 

That would be so FUN. OMG. Even just the regular season would be a blast watching that rotation.

[The Ultimate Champion]

It would make no sense for the Sox to trade for Cueto with him being a FA after 2015. He's going to be seeking something in the range of 25 mil per year. I've heard Boston is a possible spot for him, which would make sense as they have a ton of money/prospects to use to acquire players.

God I would hate to see that.

 

I'd rather he go the Tigers than Boston. I hate Boston.

[southsider2k5]

I'm going to take my shoes off. Matter of fact, I'm going to take my sweater off, too.

 

Let's just pretend for a second.

 

It's okay to pretend.

 

I like to pretend, and I bet you like to pretend too. Lots of boys and girls like to play pretend.

 

Oh look here's the little trolley, why don't we take a visit to The World of Make Believe...

 

Sale - Game 1

Cueto - Game 2

Quintana - Game 3

Rodon/Noesi/whoever is healthy & hot - Game 4, and if not, maybe Sale on short rest (why not?)

 

Yeah.

 

Now lets take the pants off too.

 

That would be so FUN. OMG. Even just the regular season would be a blast watching that rotation.

 

Hey it would be great to have Mike Trout and Gio Stanton hitting behind Jose too, but that isn't really realistic either.

 

[witesoxfan]

I am going to say this. We need offense more than we need pitching. We the limited resources we have, I think it would hurt the franchise more than it would help it in the long run to give up the haul that would be needed to get a guy like Cueto here. The starting pitching staff is the area that has the least to gain from a big infusion of a top flight talent. We have a guy like Carlos Rodon waiting in the wings, who could be as good, or better, than Cueto, without giving up anything.

 

I am going to respectfully disagree that they don't need pitching.

 

Sale & Q - 353.2 IP, 302 H, 109 ER, 88 BB, 363 K, 21 HR, ERA - 2.77, WHIP - 1.10, K/9 - 9.2, BB/9 - 2.2, HR/9 - 0.5

Rest of SP - 552 IP, 630 H, 329 ER, 216 BB, 361 K, 78 HR, ERA - 5.36, WHIP - 1.53, K/9 - 5.9, BB/9 - 3.5, HR/9 - 1.3

 

Yes, Rodon will likely come up next year and improve those by himself, and you [may] get Noesi for the full year (and he's a perfectly adequate 5th starter with a bit of upside) but one of the biggest ways I do think the Sox could improve this team is if they found a replacement for Danks in the rotation.

 

Finding a suitor for Danks will be difficult, but if the Sox get creative, I don't think it's impossible. I'd only do so once I have an agreement in principle for an upgrade, but the Sox rotation could go from top heavy to very good next year.

 

I think they also need to add a bat, but looking position by position, I think the Sox have a lot of spots covered with guys that are either solid or need an extended look - Flowers, Abreu, Sanchez/Johnson/Semien, Ramirez, Gillaspie, Viciedo/Semien/Taylor/FA, Eaton, Garcia, whoever. The area of biggest need is LF, but you can also just bring in good bat too.

[southsider2k5]

I am going to respectfully disagree that they don't need pitching.

 

Sale & Q - 353.2 IP, 302 H, 109 ER, 88 BB, 363 K, 21 HR, ERA - 2.77, WHIP - 1.10, K/9 - 9.2, BB/9 - 2.2, HR/9 - 0.5

Rest of SP - 552 IP, 630 H, 329 ER, 216 BB, 361 K, 78 HR, ERA - 5.36, WHIP - 1.53, K/9 - 5.9, BB/9 - 3.5, HR/9 - 1.3

 

Yes, Rodon will likely come up next year and improve those by himself, and you [may] get Noesi for the full year (and he's a perfectly adequate 5th starter with a bit of upside) but one of the biggest ways I do think the Sox could improve this team is if they found a replacement for Danks in the rotation.

 

Finding a suitor for Danks will be difficult, but if the Sox get creative, I don't think it's impossible. I'd only do so once I have an agreement in principle for an upgrade, but the Sox rotation could go from top heavy to very good next year.

 

I think they also need to add a bat, but looking position by position, I think the Sox have a lot of spots covered with guys that are either solid or need an extended look - Flowers, Abreu, Sanchez/Johnson/Semien, Ramirez, Gillaspie, Viciedo/Semien/Taylor/FA, Eaton, Garcia, whoever. The area of biggest need is LF, but you can also just bring in good bat too.

 

I know the dogs are rabid for John Danks, but I am not really willing to just give him away for a loss at this point, unless it gets us something that makes a lot of sense. I think we are seeing a tired John Danks in this second half, and I say that from his mechanics looking awful for about the past two months, combined with this being the first time since 2010 he has been over 180 IP. I think next year he will around a league average pitcher.

 

I think we are also seeing come conditioning breakdowns from Noesi for the same reason. I think the workload is wearing on him now, but will payoff next year.

 

 

[The Ultimate Champion]

I agree with wite. Continuing to build our pitching is the best way to make us a contender. A better starting staff makes the bullpen better and requires the offense to do less and also it makes our defense more valuable.

 

I came up with a Danks to Pirates hypothetical a while ago here, only problem was I had the Pirates giving us players they don't have. But we want Pedro Alvarez or something? Well, they can take Danks, we will give them lots of cash on that deal, they can give us Alvarez & Tabata's bad deal, and then we'll give them prospects or soemthing to make up the difference. They might be able to use him with Liriano leaving & Danks could probably use the NL right about now. Great match IMO.

 

Okay so back to the world of make believe, imagine what it would be like for a lineup to have to deal with Sale's motion one day and then Cueto the next, and just to add a little extra there, let's say the Sox call up Danish late in the year and use him as a righty specialist/setup guy to acclimate him to the big leagues. That's like funky motion heaven. s***, pick up a reliever out of Japan while you're at it and play George Clinton around the park. Brooks Boyer wouldn't think of that though, we'd sign some guy named Takisumi and all Brooksy would come up with is OEO Takisooooomio or something like that. Anyway I like to pretend.

[The Ultimate Champion]

Hey it would be great to have Mike Trout and Gio Stanton hitting behind Jose too, but that isn't really realistic either.

I know

[caulfield12]

I'd rather gamble on cooper being able to refix Edwin Jackson again...with some money coming back in exchange for danks.

Edited September 19, 2014 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

I agree with wite. Continuing to build our pitching is the best way to make us a contender. A better starting staff makes the bullpen better and requires the offense to do less and also it makes our defense more valuable.

 

I came up with a Danks to Pirates hypothetical a while ago here, only problem was I had the Pirates giving us players they don't have. But we want Pedro Alvarez or something? Well, they can take Danks, we will give them lots of cash on that deal, they can give us Alvarez & Tabata's bad deal, and then we'll give them prospects or soemthing to make up the difference. They might be able to use him with Liriano leaving & Danks could probably use the NL right about now. Great match IMO.

 

Okay so back to the world of make believe, imagine what it would be like for a lineup to have to deal with Sale's motion one day and then Cueto the next, and just to add a little extra there, let's say the Sox call up Danish late in the year and use him as a righty specialist/setup guy to acclimate him to the big leagues. That's like funky motion heaven. s***, pick up a reliever out of Japan while you're at it and play George Clinton around the park. Brooks Boyer wouldn't think of that though, we'd sign some guy named Takisumi and all Brooksy would come up with is OEO Takisooooomio or something like that. Anyway I like to pretend.

 

They might not even tender Alvarez...it's like trading Dayan for him. Tabata is just another form of Moises Sierra or Michael Taylor at this point.

[bmags]

There's no way way in hell we'd win the bidding for Cueto. Someone will pay more than we can pay.

 

I know I'm a buzzkill but man it's true. It's not even plausible.

 

I've spent a big portion of my life steeling myself from being let down, and maybe I've paid for it emotionally and I don't have as much fun as I could. Is it worth it to sacrifice the highs to avoid the lows? Sure doesn't sound like it when you put it THAT way.

This post was awesome.

[LDF]

There's no way way in hell we'd win the bidding for Cueto. Someone will pay more than we can pay.

 

I know I'm a buzzkill but man it's true. It's not even plausible.

 

I've spent a big portion of my life steeling myself from being let down, and maybe I've paid for it emotionally and I don't have as much fun as I could. Is it worth it to sacrifice the highs to avoid the lows? Sure doesn't sound like it when you put it THAT way.

 

I am with ya, the only thing I would like to add is "what will be the real ransom" to

get him.