flavum Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 In this era of more focus on draft picks, protected picks, tanking seasons for top picks, and having September call ups determining draft order, I think MLB should go to a Draft Lottery and do it at the Winter Meetings. Some rules: - the 20 teams that don't qualify for the postseason go in the lottery. - no team can be in the Top 3 in consecutive years. If you're 1, the following year the highest you can be is 6. If you're 2, the highest you can be the next year is 5. If you're 3, the highest you can be the next year is 4. - You're only allowed to have the number 1 pick once every 10 years. - The wildcard game losers get the 21st and 22nd picks - The DS losers pick 23-26 - The CS losers pick 27-28 - The WS loser picks 29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 If they were to do a lottery, I'd rather see just the protected picks put in the lottery. And then the worse your team, the better your odds. So the bottom 10 picks, let's say, would get these amounts of chances.... Worst record - 10 balls in the lottery. 2nd word record - 9 balls...... .... ... ... 10th worst record - 1 ball. And then you pick the top 10 that way. Then you do a rule where top 3 picks from the previous year can't receive a top 3 pick in the following year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted September 20, 2014 Author Share Posted September 20, 2014 (edited) Maybe they can do something different with protected picks the next CBA, but my overall feeling is that no one game at the end of the season should impact draft order. I'm watching these games hoping the Sox lose. Dan Hayes is writing articles saying it would be good for the Sox if they lose. And just because of the system, it's perfectly ok to want the Sox to lose these last 9 games. But for MLB, the best thing to do would be to take the focus off getting in the 10 worst for an advantage, and just build in some rules to the draft so teams and fans don't have to think about the ramifications of a win or loss at the end of the season. Edited September 20, 2014 by flavum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 QUOTE (flavum @ Sep 20, 2014 -> 10:47 AM) Maybe they can do something different with protected picks the next CBA, but my overall feeling is that no one game at the end of the season should impact draft order. I'm watching these games hoping the Sox lose. Dan Hayes is writing articles saying it would be good for the Sox if they lose. And just because of the system, it's perfectly ok to want the Sox to lose these last 9 games. But for MLB, the best thing to do would be to take the focus off getting in the 10 worst for an advantage, and just build in some rules to the draft so teams and fans don't have to think about the ramifications of a win or loss at the end of the season. Sounds great but we will still have fans saying "keep losing boys, up to six balls now". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Sep 20, 2014 -> 12:04 PM) Sounds great but we will still have fans saying "keep losing boys, up to six balls now". And there is nothing wrong with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerksticks Posted September 20, 2014 Share Posted September 20, 2014 QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Sep 20, 2014 -> 03:55 PM) And there is nothing wrong with that. I wasn't going there. Just funnier now rooting for balls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiliIrishHammock24 Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Sep 20, 2014 -> 04:30 PM) I wasn't going there. Just funnier now rooting for balls. Oh ok, gotcha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 It isn't like the NBA where if you tank, you draft a guy who changes your team around in one year. They are already almost halfway through the next season when the next draft occurs. I don't think teams tank, at least not to the levels they would in the NBA to get a top pick. Just look at every team's last 10 games. 3-7 is the worst record. Leave it as is. Hopefully, the Sox will be better next year for a long time so top picks, or protected picks aren't even part of the discussion. Besides, if they had a lottery, it probably would be fixed, and the Cubs would win all the time. This draft is still more of a crapshhot than any other, and usually doesn't offer immediate rewards. iMO, there is no reason for a lottery except to possibly make the league more unbalanced. They have made changes to try to ensure the better players get drafted by the poorer teams. If there was evidence of widespread tanking, I could see it on a very limited basis. But there are some legitmately bad teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 It is a stupid idea for MLB. The NBA has already turned into a garbage product because of the lottery. I don't want to see this happen in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 21, 2014 -> 10:07 AM) It is a stupid idea for MLB. The NBA has already turned into a garbage product because of the lottery. I don't want to see this happen in baseball. It's not stupid. How is the NBA anywhere close to the same as MLB? You have to have one of the best individual players to win in the NBA. Again, my opinion is that it's just bad to get to the end of the season where lesser teams may be playing other teams with the postseason on the line, and maybe the bad teams aren't putting out their best product to win because it may mean the #1 pick the following year. And also maybe losing the last couple games to get a protected pick and all of that. So it's not stupid to eliminate some of those things, and build in rules to a Draft Lottery that teams can't have top 3 picks in consecutive years, or the #1 pick more than once in a decade. There's a fair of doing a Lottery that makes the outcome of a Mets-Astros game on the last day of the season irrelevant to the draft order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (flavum @ Sep 21, 2014 -> 10:35 AM) It's not stupid. How is the NBA anywhere close to the same as MLB? You have to have one of the best individual players to win in the NBA. Again, my opinion is that it's just bad to get to the end of the season where lesser teams may be playing other teams with the postseason on the line, and maybe the bad teams aren't putting out their best product to win because it may mean the #1 pick the following year. And also maybe losing the last couple games to get a protected pick and all of that. So it's not stupid to eliminate some of those things, and build in rules to a Draft Lottery that teams can't have top 3 picks in consecutive years, or the #1 pick more than once in a decade. There's a fair of doing a Lottery that makes the outcome of a Mets-Astros game on the last day of the season irrelevant to the draft order. But losing games that do not matter still results in more ping pong balls . There still really isn't motivation to win those games. NBA teams still tank entire seasons . For a while the bad teams were not getting the better players because of signability. The best system is the worst team gets the highest pick. I wouldn't mind if thet did it like fantasy drafts and flip each round and give everyone the same pool amount. I also think most teams use their best line ups when facing teams who are in the hunt. Edited September 21, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 21, 2014 -> 11:05 AM) But losing games that do not matter still results in more ping pong balls . There still really isn't motivation to win those games. NBA teams still tank entire seasons . For a while the bad teams were not getting the better players because on signability. The best system is the worst team gets the highest pick. I wouldn't mind if thet did it like fantasy drafts and flip each round and give everyone the same pool amount. I never said anything about ping pong balls. I'd want the 20 teams that didn't make the playoffs to go in with an equal shot, and then build in rules for future seasons so teams can't get lucky and win the top pick or a top 3 or top 5 or whatever an inordinate amount of times. It would take the outcome of games in September out of the equation. There would be no incentive to lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 QUOTE (flavum @ Sep 21, 2014 -> 10:35 AM) It's not stupid. How is the NBA anywhere close to the same as MLB? You have to have one of the best individual players to win in the NBA. Again, my opinion is that it's just bad to get to the end of the season where lesser teams may be playing other teams with the postseason on the line, and maybe the bad teams aren't putting out their best product to win because it may mean the #1 pick the following year. And also maybe losing the last couple games to get a protected pick and all of that. So it's not stupid to eliminate some of those things, and build in rules to a Draft Lottery that teams can't have top 3 picks in consecutive years, or the #1 pick more than once in a decade. There's a fair of doing a Lottery that makes the outcome of a Mets-Astros game on the last day of the season irrelevant to the draft order. It is a stupid idea because it ruins the overall product to have a significant portion of the league attempting to fail at one time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 21, 2014 -> 11:21 AM) It is a stupid idea because it ruins the overall product to have a significant portion of the league attempting to fail at one time. Bud can be ripped for many things but I think this wild card play in game is genius. In this lottery scenerio being mentioned I wonder how many teams instead of trying to get one of those slots might not play for a shot at a really high draft pick. Edited September 21, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 21, 2014 -> 11:21 AM) It is a stupid idea because it ruins the overall product to have a significant portion of the league attempting to fail at one time. So you're saying that 20 teams in any given year will be trying not to make the playoffs? That makes no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (flavum @ Sep 21, 2014 -> 11:28 AM) So you're saying that 20 teams in any given year will be trying not to make the playoffs? That makes no sense. Would you play for a small shot at a wild card or a shot at a really high pick? One problem with your scenerio is it is one thing when bad teams tank but the average and slightly above average teams would be given more motivation mot to take a shot at a wild card spot. I don't see how this stops tanking and I don't think it is rampant anyway. Let the bad teams draft the better players. Most still need to be developed anyway. Edited September 21, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 21, 2014 -> 11:39 AM) Would you play for a small shot at a wild card or a shot at a really high pick? One problem with your scenerio is it is one thing when bad teams tank but the average and slightly above average teams would be given more motivation mot to take a shot at a wild card spot. Teams that close to contention are trying to make the playoffs. In a lot of cases, they're in their own division race late into the season. You'd always take a shot at winning a championship over a small chance at a top 3 pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted September 21, 2014 Author Share Posted September 21, 2014 On the tanking thing...I'm not saying teams purposefully take the field with the intention of losing. I'm saying maybe teams play 4A guys, or go to 6-man rotations, or shut down their best pitcher with a couple weeks left. Teams have their own agendas at the end of the season that don't match others playing for the postseason. Bottom line for me, it would be a good idea just to eliminate that an individual game could have a huge impact on the draft order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 21, 2014 -> 11:07 AM) It is a stupid idea for MLB. The NBA has already turned into a garbage product because of the lottery. I don't want to see this happen in baseball. What is it about the lottery that turns the NBA into a garbage product? I feel like the teams tanking hurts the product on the court more and that would be even more intense if there were no lottery and the worst record guaranteed the worst pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 QUOTE (flavum @ Sep 21, 2014 -> 11:50 AM) On the tanking thing...I'm not saying teams purposefully take the field with the intention of losing. I'm saying maybe teams play 4A guys, or go to 6-man rotations, or shut down their best pitcher with a couple weeks left. Teams have their own agendas at the end of the season that don't match others playing for the postseason. Bottom line for me, it would be a good idea just to eliminate that an individual game could have a huge impact on the draft order. But that hurts the product in the future. One good thing about being out of contention is giving these types of players AB not only for their development, but for the team to be able to evaluate. Just reading this board, many were excited to see these guys play this September. I really doubt you will ever see a lottery. All a lottery really does is tells your customer base teams can't be trusted to give you 100% effort, and really, while it maybe has helped somewhat, in the NBA, there are a lot of teams still playing not to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 Tanking just isn't that big of a deal in mlb to worry about this. It hurts in nba because one player can change everything, immediately. Mlb plans are so much longer term and the draft just rarely has that impact. This is solving a problem that doesn't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 21, 2014 -> 11:28 AM) Bud can be ripped for many things but I think this wild card play in game is genius. In this lottery scenerio being mentioned I wonder how many teams instead of trying to get one of those slots might not play for a shot at a really high draft pick. It puts the incentive into winning, not losing. That is why it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted September 21, 2014 Share Posted September 21, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 21, 2014 -> 11:39 AM) Would you play for a small shot at a wild card or a shot at a really high pick? One problem with your scenerio is it is one thing when bad teams tank but the average and slightly above average teams would be given more motivation mot to take a shot at a wild card spot. I don't see how this stops tanking and I don't think it is rampant anyway. Let the bad teams draft the better players. Most still need to be developed anyway. It won't. Look at the NBA and NHL to see the gap between the good and bad teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 QUOTE (bmags @ Sep 21, 2014 -> 02:16 PM) Tanking just isn't that big of a deal in mlb to worry about this. It hurts in nba because one player can change everything, immediately. Mlb plans are so much longer term and the draft just rarely has that impact. This is solving a problem that doesn't exist. The impact is really in the amount of money that a team can spend, you can roll the dice with more high upside players when you have a larger bonus pool to work with. The Astros will likely have the largest draft pool in history next season with two of the top 5 picks and 4 in the top 40. So if they go underslot at #2 they can grab some guys that are too expensive for everyone else in rounds 3-5 which does make an impact to the overall depth that an organization has. If it were about one player the results would not matter as much. Last year no one here would have wanted a draft lottery as it would have cost the Sox a shot at drafting one of the big 3 in last years draft. If they were to do a lottery, I would like to see teams 11-20 get one ball each, teams 6-10 get two balls each, and teams 1-5 get three balls each. It keeps the randomness and scales towards the teams that do not have a realistic chance of competing but gives a team that is trying to contend, like the Brewers this season, the opportunity to get a franchise changing player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I don't think it's realistic to have a lottery in a league without a salary cap. It's not an even playing field. Sometimes the best strategical option is to strip it down to bare bones and roll with a $30 million payroll for a few years and draft really well. Smart teams shouldn't be forbidden from doing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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