Y2Jimmy0 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 07:54 AM) The one positive to Melky's past PED use is that it should limit the overall contract length. My guess is he gets something like 3/$45M and maybe even a little less in terms of AAV if he's given a qualifying offer. I really don't think anyone will be willing to go four years with him due to his baggage. While I do have some concerns about Melky going forward, I think the deal I mentioned above is a no-brainer for us. Melky for 3 years and $45 million would be outstanding. I think he gets more than that though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eminor3rd Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 07:32 AM) Melky has a ton of warts. It is very understandable why some wouldn't want the White Sox to sign him. That's not why it would ruin greg's offseason though. I'm not real high on him either, honestly. But it's because I'm not sure how good he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 09:15 AM) That's not why it would ruin greg's offseason though. I'm not real high on him either, honestly. But it's because I'm not sure how good he is. I also think character issues are important. Melky is a cheater extrodinaire (sp I am sure). He also had attitude problems on the Yankees and Braves. The Braves let him go for nothing. I don't know why Greg is called out for not liking Melky because of his issues, and why it is OK to use other issues as reasons to not want someone around. Does anyone really think that if there was a drug test that could not be beat, Melky would pass? It is one thing to employ suspected players, it is another for known cheaters. Cheaters cheat, and in most cases, continue to cheat even after they are caught. To me signing Melky is a desperation move. You are just waiting for that 100 game suspension to be handed down. I guess the bright side would be he wouldn't be paid for all the budget worried people out there. Edited October 16, 2014 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 3 years 45 million for Melky Cabrera is "outstanding" and a "no brainer"? Wow, I'm not opposed to signing him, but I guess my value of Melky is way different. $15M a year just seems like too much for a LF who will struggle to keep his OPS above .800 and plays below average D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 10:09 AM) 3 years 45 million for Melky Cabrera is "outstanding" and a "no brainer"? Wow, I'm not opposed to signing him, but I guess my value of Melky is way different. $15M a year just seems like too much for a LF who will struggle to keep his OPS above .800 and plays below average D. 35 players had an OPS of .800 or better this year. The law of averages suggests you should probably only expect one per lineup. I'd gladly pay $15 mill a year for Cabrera so long as he can remain even a 110 wRC+ player, let alone the 125 he put up this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 11:42 AM) 35 players had an OPS of .800 or better this year. The law of averages suggests you should probably only expect one per lineup. I'd gladly pay $15 mill a year for Cabrera so long as he can remain even a 110 wRC+ player, let alone the 125 he put up this year. 86 RC+ in 2013 is the worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 10:45 AM) 86 RC+ in 2013 is the worry. That could be explained by the tumor, but I also think there may be something to Melky not performing as well when there isn't money on the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 08:42 AM) 35 players had an OPS of .800 or better this year. The law of averages suggests you should probably only expect one per lineup. I'd gladly pay $15 mill a year for Cabrera so long as he can remain even a 110 wRC+ player, let alone the 125 he put up this year. RC+ isn't the only thing that should be factored in. We are a bad defensive outfield and we should not be adding other below average outfielders unless they can really really hit and I don't think we are talking about that in Melky. At a cheaper price, sure, could make sense. All that said, 3 of last 4 years he's had good WAR's, but his defense has been trending downward and will likely continue to regress as well as the bat. Don't love the idea, especially given some of his clubhouse issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFutureIsNear Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 11:42 AM) 35 players had an OPS of .800 or better this year. The law of averages suggests you should probably only expect one per lineup. I'd gladly pay $15 mill a year for Cabrera so long as he can remain even a 110 wRC+ player, let alone the 125 he put up this year. If Melky is easily worth $15 a year what is V Mart worth? $20M a year? More? He put up a 166 this year and his career average is right around 125. Melky is a good player, but I think signing him to a $15M a year contract is forcing a signing just because we have a hole to fill. I'd much rather wait and find the right OF, not the 1st one available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 09:28 AM) I also think character issues are important. Melky is a cheater extrodinaire (sp I am sure). He also had attitude problems on the Yankees and Braves. The Braves let him go for nothing. I don't know why Greg is called out for not liking Melky because of his issues, and why it is OK to use other issues as reasons to not want someone around. Does anyone really think that if there was a drug test that could not be beat, Melky would pass? It is one thing to employ suspected players, it is another for known cheaters. Cheaters cheat, and in most cases, continue to cheat even after they are caught. To me signing Melky is a desperation move. You are just waiting for that 100 game suspension to be handed down. I guess the bright side would be he wouldn't be paid for all the budget worried people out there. That type of desperation move worked out pretty damn well for the Orioles. I'm not saying Melky will hit 40 homers, but I don't think you should ignore Melky simply because of a past suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 11:02 AM) If Melky is easily worth $15 a year what is V Mart worth? $20M a year? More? He put up a 166 this year and his career average is right around 125. Melky is a good player, but I think signing him to a $15M a year contract is forcing a signing just because we have a hole to fill. I'd much rather wait and find the right OF, not the 1st one available. I think Victor Martinez could easily get $20 mill per year and it would likely be more than that if he weren't 36. I don't know that he necessarily will sign for $20 mill per year because he may prefer the overall payday of a 3 year contract at $17 mill per year instead of 1 year at $20 million. I'm not advocating the move...I don't necessarily care for Melky Cabrera...just saying that I wouldn't be terribly upset signing him to a 3 year, $45 million contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 QUOTE (GreenSox @ Oct 12, 2014 -> 11:07 AM) we shouldn't be dealing prospects of any worth, esp for expensive risks. Bruce is another high K player - I'd like to see a Sox moratorium on those players. See if we can get Dom Brown for the Danks bros. I think a Viciedo for Brown swap makes sense. Both are arb eligible and candidates to be non-tendered, each roster could use an opposite handed hitter, Viciedo could platoon with Howard some at 1B and provide as much defense as Brown in the OF. Trade for Brown, sign Jose Fernandez and Parra as a reclamation project and the lineup will be pretty set. I think that RH has Pedro Alvarez pegged for the DH role next year though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 11:23 AM) I think a Viciedo for Brown swap makes sense. Both are arb eligible and candidates to be non-tendered, each roster could use an opposite handed hitter, Viciedo could platoon with Howard some at 1B and provide as much defense as Brown in the OF. Trade for Brown, sign Jose Fernandez and Parra as a reclamation project and the lineup will be pretty set. I think that RH has Pedro Alvarez pegged for the DH role next year though. Why sign a 26 year old second baseman when Sox have 3 that could fill that void right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harfman77 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 11:34 AM) Why sign a 26 year old second baseman when Sox have 3 that could fill that void right now? Because he is better than the ceiling of any of the three players. It would also give RH some trade chips to improve the roster and add depth to the farm system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSox13 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 11:34 AM) Why sign a 26 year old second baseman when Sox have 3 that could fill that void right now? Agreed. Here's an interesting little snippet... "Though a highly developed player, Fernandez does come with some warts, including an unconventional swing, tendency to hit grounders, and below-average speed and power tools. And his defense is described as merely adequate." http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/10/cuba...ez-defects.html I would MUCH rather go with Sanchez, Semien, Johnson instead of over paying for the latest sensation. IMO, the three options the Sox currently have all have higher upside and two of them have already gotten their feet wet in the majors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 12:34 PM) Why would that ruin your offseason? Cause he was as productive as Claudell Washington before he hit the steroids. I am not a believer in Melky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 People need to accept the fact that there are few bargains in free agency and filling needs by trade will be costly in terms of talent. Melky is a guy who has posted wRC+ above 118 in three of the past four seasons. There aren't many of those guys available in free agency and those that are available will cost significantly more than Cabrera. His past baggage will ultimately reduce his price. Sure there is risk involved in signing him, but if his contact is limited to three years, then I think that risk is pretty small given our financial situation. Also, we have a huge opportunity right now to fill needs without giving up tons of minor league talent. There are guys out there that I'd much rather have than Melky, but when you factor in the cost of acquisition those deals end up making a lot less sense for us IMO. The other alternative is to wait for all these magical bargains to appear out of thin air while wasting the production/surplus value that guys like Sale, Quintana, Abreu, & Eaton are currently providing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDF Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Oct 16, 2014 -> 07:15 PM) People need to accept the fact that there are few bargains in free agency and filling needs by trade will be costly in terms of talent. Melky is a guy who has posted wRC+ above 118 in three of the past four seasons. There aren't many of those guys available in free agency and those that are available will cost significantly more than Cabrera. His past baggage will ultimately reduce his price. Sure there is risk involved in signing him, but if his contact is limited to three years, then I think that risk is pretty small given our financial situation. Also, we have a huge opportunity right now to fill needs without giving up tons of minor league talent. There are guys out there that I'd much rather have than Melky, but when you factor in the cost of acquisition those deals end up making a lot less sense for us IMO. The other alternative is to wait for all these magical bargains to appear out of thin air while wasting the production/surplus value that guys like Sale, Quintana, Abreu, & Eaton are currently providing. a very good point. I would like to add. the bargains that are avail, other teams will be addressing their needs and will go after the same players. with ref to salary, most players will follow the money. why will players leave a deal with money on the table to sign for less elsewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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