Finding a LH/Switch hitting OFer

[BlackSox13]

I know you're being whimsical (hence and ), but Hanley is not a SS at this point. We wouldn't be able to handle that, IMO. Also, Alexei and Gillaspie better net us more than Etheri and a low level prospect, haha.

All I can say is you sir are a Debbie Downer!

 

OK, how's about Gillaspie and Sanchez to LA for Ethier? Sign Hanley to play 2B.

[BlackSox13]

Happy offseason!

That it would be no doubt. This isn't my idea tho, I stole the idea from Hahn's white board in his office.

[BlackSox13]

OK, how's about Gillaspie and Sanchez to LA for Ethier? Sign Hanley to play 2B.

 

 

Trading Alexei and Gillaspie for an albatross and signing Hanley Ramirez to play SS for a team that has a pitching philosophy based on producing ground balls...Yikes.

There is that idea above. ^

 

Since you're not in the Ethier fan club, the Sox could trade for Belt and still sign Ramirez to play 2B while playing Semien at 3B or vice versa. Then all the Sox need is a 4th OF/DH type like say... Domonic Brown?

Edited October 14, 2014 by StRoostifer

[LDF]

Agreed. Taking Danks and sending money with Ethier would negate a nice size portion of the potential savings as far as the Dodgers are concerned. Assuming they really do want to shed 50M off of next years payroll.

 

On the flip side they do have Hanley and Uribe's salaries coming off the books so if they nickel and dime here and there it can happen.

 

So, instead the Sox send Alexei and Gillaspie to LA for Ethier and a low level prospect. Then the Sox put Semien at 3B, sign Hanley to play SS, sign Melky to play LF with Ethier being the 4th OF/ DH. The rest of the money goes into the bullpen and we all hold hands while skipping down the street together into the 2015 playoffs.

 

the dodgers need to create room in the outfield next season.

[BlackSox13]

I just think you're having trouble figuring the value of the players you are mentioning.

I don't deny that I do not know about how much value Gillaspie and Sanchez have. I do know that the Dodgers plan to slide Gordon back to SS which leaves 2B and 3B open which is why I threw Gillaspie and Sanchez out there. Plus, they are cheap which helps the Dodgers bring the payroll down.

[BamaDoc]

I think for a contending team, Danks is fine as a five. Experienced and now appearing healthy. Stuff fits NL better. His only problem is his price. If you take a worse contract like Ethier the Dodgers save 4 million in each of the next two years. You further leverage your return by how much you get to cover his third year of 17.5 million. If you only get back 9 or so the third year(fourth year requires 550 plate appearances or 2.5 million owed for buyout) LA would save about 18 million. That should let you get some decent young talent with him like a reliever and a prospect. Yimi Garcia made it to the majors at age 24 and was Dodger #15 prospect. Scott Schebler OF AA LH hitter with good power ranked #9 gives us a lefty bat to follow. A lot depends on how much salary relief they need. You could throw in some of our lesser prospects like Braulio Ortiz or lower ranked to make it look better on their side.

 

 

[BlackSox13]

2B - Alex Guerrero who they just threw 32 million at and put up nearly a 1.000 OPS in 300+ PAs in the minors.

 

Why would the Sox sign Hanley Ramirez for 15-20 million a year to play a position they already have three of their top prospects at? Or even worse, have him play the most important defensive position on the field where he has already proved he is of baseball's worst...

 

Why would the Sox trade one of their best assets and best defenders in Alexei for an albatross who's skill set could be found on the FA market?

 

Changing the names in the lineup and spending gross amounts of money isn't going to take this team where it needs to be.

I forgot all about Guerrero.

 

A healthy Hanley is a better bat than Sanchez or Johnson and I've already said that Semien would play third unless Hanley preferred third in which case Semien goes to 2B.

 

As for Alexei. One of the reasons I mentioned in a previous post, Gillaspie and Sanchez for Ethier was so the Sox would keep Alexei for SS as well as the Dodgers get to shed the payroll. Try to keep up...

 

As I've said before and I'll say again, I'm throwing s*** out there is all. Instead of nitpicking why not throw some ideas and scenarios out there yourself.

 

You've spoke a few times about Brandon Belt. Are the Giants even willing to trade him? What would it cost the Sox to get him? Do the Sox have the players to get him? If so would if be players the Sox were hoping to keep?

[BlackSox13]

As for the last part on Belt, I have made my argument several times and you have obviously noted that so why go through it again? You have to give to get. Belt, who only has potential to be available (rather than a certainty with a FA), would add to the young core and fill a need. Many people praised and agreed with that suggestion.

 

You mention that you're "just throwing s*** out there" every time someone pokes a hole in one of your suggestions and while it is a dead period of the offseason, we should aim to have our suggestions within the realm of possibility. I am not going to say "Hey, let's get Mike Trout" just for the sake of "throwing s*** out there." When I throw something out there I try to make it fit with the direction of the team. I can make up a bunch of random moves just for the sake of doing so but I don't find that to be worth anyone's time because the front office isn't even considering the stuff you're throwing out there. Just because a guy is without a contract doesn't mean it makes more sense to acquire him than a better fit via trade.

 

If I had a big board it would include guys like the following:

 

Belt - fits in the core, great offensive profile, LH bat

Headley - defense, potential surplus value

Grandal - position, room for growth

Ethier - good fit, OF and LHB, likely we'd have to send little to LAD

Van Slyke - potentially undervalued, versatile

Hochevar - coming off injury, good track record despite missing last season

Tomas - add to the young core, great power potential, fits positional need

Cabrera - good LH bat, fits positional need

Maeda - although I'd like to know much more about him, top Japanese pitcher, adds to young core, fills middle of the rotation RHSP

Peavy - fills RHSP void, potential to be flipped in things fall apart

 

I could add more but that's off the dome.

 

My interest in these guys is all conditional. For instance, if the Giants won't trade Belt without getting Quintana in return then I am not interested. If Headley wants 100 million then I won't champion that acquisition. If Melky requires compensation and he wants 15 million a year than I move on the next option. The guys the Sox are going to be looking at all have a cost to acquire, a position, a track record and a fit to the team. The guys with the best intersection of these parameters will be brought in.

 

So when you're "throwing s*** out here" ask yourself a few things before going down that road. Take Hanley for example.

 

1.) Cost to acquire: Hanley is a premier free agent who will most likely have compensation tied to him. It will likely cost 100 million and our 2nd round draft pick and the allotment of that pick. Very steep. He would become the most expensive acquisition in White Sox history and that's not even factoring in the detriment to next year's draft. No fit here.

 

2.) Position: He is the worst defensive shortstop in baseball and more likely to be pegged for 3B as a free agent. We have Gillaspie/Semien and Hanley is too expensive, doesn't bat LH and doesn't add any defensive value. You suggest 2B, a position that he's never played and we will almost certainly fill internally. Not fit here.

 

3.) Track record: He's been a very good play in many seasons and has been injured recently. High performance = high salary. Injuries + aging = less inclination to sign long term. So while his track record isn't a detriment to bringing him in it does add to his cost to acquire and decreases the likelihood he returns on the contract he'll sign.

 

4.) Fit the trajectory of the team: Sox are looking to add to the young core of Sale, Abreu, Quintana, Eaton and others. Does signing a 31 year old to a lofty and potentially crippling contract add to the core? Perhaps, it does. I would definitely lean towards no as would the organization but that's debatable at least.

 

In the end, Hanley is old, expensive and not a fit on the field or in the grand scheme of things. I wasn't merely poking a hole; signing Hanley Ramirez to a long term contract to play 2B is about as off-base as you can get when it comes to "throwing s*** out there" for the 2015 White Sox.

Finally, some rational instead of quick one or two sentence comments. I like it.

 

Just because you don't see the idea's as realistic does not mean that aren't. I don't care if people want to poke holes, that's fine with me, I just like remind people because I don't want them thinking I'm taking the ideas too serious. As I've stated, just thinking outside the box because a lot of times those are the moves that are made. Moves fans do not see coming much less thought of. Then again, maybe its better to wait for the next idiot sports writer to throw some random ideas out there so people can run around the board regurgitating what they had read...

 

Belt: I'm on board with the idea 1000% and in fact love the idea depending on what the Sox would send to the Giants. It would be costly and I'm not sure what the Giants would want in return but I agree with you when you said no way if its Q.

 

Hanley: please don't say Hanley is too old (31 this december) when likes of Ethier (32), Adam LaRoche (35 this November) and VMart (36 this december) have been mentioned. As for his defense, the guy is more than athletic enough to play 3rd or 2B and in fact as short stops age they usually end up at third anyway due to losing range so then Semien goes to 2B. Yes Hanley will cost a pick but last I read the Sox want to compete in 2015 so its going to cost money, draft picks or young players from the minors. Im not saying Hanley is the best fit or the best idea, just something to be considered. I don't he will get more than a 4 year deal which takes him to

 

Hahn is in a difficult position because the farm isn't loaded with enough talent to make a bunch of trades to fill holes and still have plenty of talent left over. If the mindset is to not sign players that would cost second or third round picks then I have to ask, are they planning on competing or still rebuilding? The first pick is protected so given a thin farm, a protected first round pick, this is the year to sign FA's because its likely the first round pick in 2016 will not be protected.

 

As for a young core, I agree with the idea. Problem is, the Sox will have to part with young minor league talent to get the players that are in the mid twenties that the Sox are looking for. The farm just is not deep enough and why the Sox likely should look at free agents if they REALLY want to compete. They have plenty of room in the payroll.

 

As for your suggested targets, I like most of them and agree. Except for a few.

 

Headley- I see the attraction defensively speaking but unsure about his bat. Plus, if the Yanks are considering ARod at first it could be an indicator that they want to keep Headley.

 

Maeda- the guy is listed at 5'11" and 156lbs. I just don't trust him to stay healthy for the duration of a long term deal issued to a guy with no MLB experience and has to adjust to pitching every 5th start. Just my opinion but I wouldn't so much as kick the tires.

 

Tomas- he surely fits core age that Hahn has been speaking about but according to the scouting reports he also fits the mold of Viciedo part deux.

 

Other than those three I do like your suggestions and I really hope the Sox go after Melky first and foremost as far as free agents are concerned.

[TheFutureIsNear]

Again, didn't read the 1st 14 pages of this thread so don't know if he's been mentioned yet, but what about Travis Snider? He doesn't exactly have a ton of MLB success yet, but he's still 26 and has some great pedigree as a top prospect not that long ago. His slash of .264/.338/.438 wasn't exactly bad for a part time player and his 13 HR's is 359 AB's is pretty good. I'm sure the Pirates aren't exactly in a hurry to trade him as he's still fairly cheap, but with McCutchen, Polanco, and Marte in their OF already I'm sure they can be convinced....As to what it would take to get him? No clue, its tough call on what his value is (he wasn't trade for much originally) and what the Pirates need.

[Eminor3rd]

Again, didn't read the 1st 14 pages of this thread so don't know if he's been mentioned yet, but what about Travis Snider? He doesn't exactly have a ton of MLB success yet, but he's still 26 and has some great pedigree as a top prospect not that long ago. His slash of .264/.338/.438 wasn't exactly bad for a part time player and his 13 HR's is 359 AB's is pretty good. I'm sure the Pirates aren't exactly in a hurry to trade him as he's still fairly cheap, but with McCutchen, Polanco, and Marte in their OF already I'm sure they can be convinced....As to what it would take to get him? No clue, its tough call on what his value is (he wasn't trade for much originally) and what the Pirates need.

 

I like the idea. I'd take a flyer.

 

But then I'd still go out and try to shop for a better guy.

[caulfield12]

There is that idea above. ^

 

Since you're not in the Ethier fan club, the Sox could trade for Belt and still sign Ramirez to play 2B while playing Semien at 3B or vice versa. Then all the Sox need is a 4th OF/DH type like say... Domonic Brown?

 

 

What asset do we currently possess that the Giants would accept for Belt?

 

Let's get away from Erik Johnson/Davidson/Thompson/Walker/Beck/Mitchell type ideas and back to reality.

 

 

 

Fwiw, Hanley Ramirez is MUCH more comfortable at 3B than 2B.

[BlackSox13]

Again, didn't read the 1st 14 pages of this thread so don't know if he's been mentioned yet, but what about Travis Snider? He doesn't exactly have a ton of MLB success yet, but he's still 26 and has some great pedigree as a top prospect not that long ago. His slash of .264/.338/.438 wasn't exactly bad for a part time player and his 13 HR's is 359 AB's is pretty good. I'm sure the Pirates aren't exactly in a hurry to trade him as he's still fairly cheap, but with McCutchen, Polanco, and Marte in their OF already I'm sure they can be convinced....As to what it would take to get him? No clue, its tough call on what his value is (he wasn't trade for much originally) and what the Pirates need.

Hadn't thought of Snyder but if the cost was reasonable I would not object. 13 HR in 359 plate appearances is not bad at all.If the Pirates lose Martin, I wonder if they would be intrigued by Phegley? Snyder for Phegley cannot be too far off base.

 

The only hangup I see is Snyder is only under team control for 2015/16 and a FA after that. If he hit well in 2015 he could be extended.

 

I like your thinking here. Sign Melky and now the Sox have four OF's to rotate into the DH role to keep legs fresh.

[BlackSox13]

What asset do we currently possess that the Giants would accept for Belt?

 

Let's get away from Erik Johnson/Davidson/Thompson/Walker/Beck/Mitchell type ideas and back to reality.

 

 

 

Fwiw, Hanley Ramirez is MUCH more comfortable at 3B than 2B.

Belt: I don't know what his value is so its difficult to say. I don't see the Giants trading Belt since they will lose Morse to FA, they can just play Belt in LF. As much as I like the idea of Belt, I think its more a pipe dream than anything.

 

As for Hanley, I agree. I only mentioned 2B due to his speed and the possible desire for the Sox to play Semien at 3B.

 

As for the farm guys you listed. I agree they hold little to no value at this point but could serve as a PTBN in a trade, the type that tips the scale just enough for the other teams GM to bite.

[TheFutureIsNear]

Hadn't thought of Snyder but if the cost was reasonable I would not object. 13 HR in 359 plate appearances is not bad at all.If the Pirates lose Martin, I wonder if they would be intrigued by Phegley? Snyder for Phegley cannot be too far off base.

 

The only hangup I see is Snyder is only under team control for 2015/16 and a FA after that. If he hit well in 2015 he could be extended.

 

I like your thinking here. Sign Melky and now the Sox have four OF's to rotate into the DH role to keep legs fresh.

 

Ehh I think it would take a bit more than Phegley...maybe Phegley and Snodgress or some decent arm like that. Either way it would be a small price to pay for a young left handed hitter that could hit 25 HR's in the middle of our lineup. As far as him being a free agent, I had no idea. Good call. I still don't think it should hinder us from trading for him though. If he earns a new contract its a big plus...But now that you bring that up it actually does make sense for the Pirates to trade him. They should definitely get something for him now while they can because the odds of him resigning in Pittsburgh are slim with the talent they already have. My s*** throwing just became realistic, who woulda thought lol

[BlackSox13]

Ehh I think it would take a bit more than Phegley...maybe Phegley and Snodgress or some decent arm like that. Either way it would be a small price to pay for a young left handed hitter that could hit 25 HR's in the middle of our lineup. As far as him being a free agent, I had no idea. Good call. I still don't think it should hinder us from trading for him though. If he earns a new contract its a big plus...But now that you bring that up it actually does make sense for the Pirates to trade him. They should definitely get something for him now while they can because the odds of him resigning in Pittsburgh are slim with the talent they already have. My s*** throwing just became realistic, who woulda thought lol

Careful now, keep talking realistically and its no longer s*** throwing.

 

I'm not sure Snoddy is enough to be honest but then again I'm not sure what would be enough without being too much. I can definitely see the possibility of some interest in Phegley though. What's makes this difficult is the only other weakness on the Pirates as far as positions go is at 3B with Alvarez's high strikeouts and low BA.

 

I know, let's trade John Danks to the Pirates!

[caulfield12]

Guys like Travis Snider, Van Slyke, Endy Chavez, Denorfia, Nyjer Morgan...those are the part-time/platoon players we might end up with for 2015 if we can't hit on our top targets, but probably not part of the long-term core.

 

Tabata, Domonic Brown...Pedro Alvarez, etc. Matt Joyce, maybe. Aoki, since the Royals will give Dyson a shot at everyday playing time, in all likelihood.

 

Then again, you never know. Five or six years ago, nobody would have predicted where Jose Bautista and Edwin Encarnacion are in their big league careers. Melky Cabrera, albeit his success is tainted. Billy Butler, another possibility.

 

 

I'd rather they populated the roster with these lower-risk types than allocate long-term money for Ethier, Josh Hamilton, etc.

If you're looking at a core piece, the only really logical fits are Tomas and Rasmus, and both come with lots of warts.

 

I think I read somewhere where Shields is likely to get $64-72 million over 4 years. If that's the case, and not 5-6 years and over $120 million, then some of those players like Sandoval, Cabrera, H.Ramirez and Victor Martinez come back into play, but I'm doubtful about it happening when all is said and done.

 

Everyone's going to wait and see how much Scherzer and Lester get...that will set the market.

[SCCWS]

Belt: I don't know what his value is so its difficult to say. I don't see the Giants trading Belt since they will lose Morse to FA, they can just play Belt in LF. As much as I like the idea of Belt, I think its more a pipe dream than anything.

 

As for Hanley, I agree. I only mentioned 2B due to his speed and the possible desire for the Sox to play Semien at 3B.

 

As for the farm guys you listed. I agree they hold little to no value at this point but could serve as a PTBN in a trade, the type that tips the scale just enough for the other teams GM to bite.

 

 

Semien was worse than Gillaspie at 3B. 10 errors in 31 games is a red flag that he would at least need a full season in AAA learning 3B if that is what management plans for him.

 

[Balta1701]

Careful now, keep talking realistically and its no longer s*** throwing.

 

I'm not sure Snoddy is enough to be honest but then again I'm not sure what would be enough without being too much. I can definitely see the possibility of some interest in Phegley though. What's makes this difficult is the only other weakness on the Pirates as far as positions go is at 3B with Alvarez's high strikeouts and low BA.

 

I know, let's trade John Danks to the Pirates!

The Pirates are now extremely strong at 3b. Josh Harrison had an all star caliber season out of no where and has absolutely taken over that position full time. On top of that, Pedro Alvarez can't play 3b any more, he's got a case of the "yips" where every time he gets a slow ground ball to 3b he air mails the throw into the right field stands. They were trying to shift him over to 1b to have something to use him for late in the season when he had an injury flash.

 

Short version; the Pirates had a guy at 3b who almost won the batting title this year. They're not adding a 3b right now.

[caulfield12]

And the Pirates don't even need Alexei Ramirez anymore, they seem to be happy with Mercer despite his offensive shortcomings.

 

If Polanco makes it, they're pretty much set, although they do need to worry about keeping Martin/Liriano and that pitching staff intact.

 

As mentioned earlier, Tabata and maybe Snider will become/have become expendable, although the team was very happy with Snider's performance the last 2 months after Polanco struggled and had to go back down to the minors.

[Balta1701]

And the Pirates don't even need Alexei Ramirez anymore, they seem to be happy with Mercer despite his offensive shortcomings.

 

If Polanco makes it, they're pretty much set, although they do need to worry about keeping Martin/Liriano and that pitching staff intact.

 

As mentioned earlier, Tabata and maybe Snider will become/have become expendable, although the team was very happy with Snider's performance the last 2 months after Polanco struggled and had to go back down to the minors.

They have some pitching depth but that's the place where they seemingly will need to add with both Liriano and Volquez being FAs and Tallion still on the TJS recovery path.

[caulfield12]

They have some pitching depth but that's the place where they seemingly will need to add with both Liriano and Volquez being FAs and Tallion still on the TJS recovery path.

 

Taillon. Morton's out, too.

 

There might be a bigger battle over those 2nd tier guys like Peavy, Liriano, Hammel, Volquez, Wei-Yin Chen, etc.

 

 

 

 

FIP

ERAFIPDiff.Justin Masterson5.884.501.38Kevin Correia5.444.670.77Colby Lewis5.184.460.72Ervin Santana3.953.390.56Brandon McCarthy4.053.550.50Max Scherzer3.152.850.30Hisashi Iwakuma*3.523.250.27Ryan Vogelsong4.003.850.15Hiroki Kuroda3.713.600.11Kyle Kendrick4.614.570.04

xFIP

ERAxFIPDiff.Justin Masterson5.884.081.80Brandon McCarthy4.052.871.18Franklin Morales5.374.530.84Colby Lewis5.184.360.82Kevin Correia5.444.670.77Hisashi Iwakuma*3.522.850.67Ervin Santana3.953.470.48Dan Haren*4.023.700.32J.A. Happ*4.223.950.27Kyle Kendrick4.614.350.26Hiroki Kuroda3.713.540.17Ryan Vogelsong4.003.960.04Max Scherzer3.153.120.03

Edited October 15, 2014 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

That's unreadable even for you.

[LDF]

That's unreadable even for you.

 

whew I thought you were talking about my stuff.

[witesoxfan]

Semien was worse than Gillaspie at 3B. 10 errors in 31 games is a red flag that he would at least need a full season in AAA learning 3B if that is what management plans for him.

 

I think he primarily needs work on his footwork on his throws. He had some really inaccurate throws because he rushed through them, but I thought his range and reactions were just fine.

 

The advanced statistics agree with this: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...;position=2B/3B

 

 

[southsider2k5]

I think he primarily needs work on his footwork on his throws. He had some really inaccurate throws because he rushed through them, but I thought his range and reactions were just fine.

 

The advanced statistics agree with this: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...;position=2B/3B

 

His mistakes seemed to me like rookie mistakes, not ability-based mistakes