Finding a LH/Switch hitting OFer

[LDF]

This is how I see it:

 

Here's what's working against Justin Morneau

-He's 34 years old

-He'd have to be traded for

-He's at his highest value in 6 seasons

-He's been really bad in 3 of the past 4 season

-He only plays 1B, limiting bench versatility

-He's one blow to the head away from being done forever and ever

 

Here's what's working for Justin Morneau

-He's left handed

-He's been good this year

 

Frankly, even knowing how poor he's been in the majors, I'd rather give Andy Wilkins a shot as opposed to trading for Justin Morneau. Trading for a 1B right now is just not ideal, no matter the cost.

 

I am with you, it is too much of a risk.

[brian310]

he has a mutual option so I will probably scratch that.

 

Nooooo way the O's pick up their portion of that though. Hes owed what, 17 mill? He Wil get bought out at then re-signed for cheaper.

[max power]

Nooooo way the O's pick up their portion of that though. Hes owed what, 17 mill? He Wil get bought out at then re-signed for cheaper.

Maybe there will be bad blood then he will sign cheaper elsewhere, and have something to prove.

[shysocks]

This is how I see it:

 

Here's what's working against Justin Morneau

-He's 34 years old

-He'd have to be traded for

-He's at his highest value in 6 seasons

-He's been really bad in 3 of the past 4 season

-He only plays 1B, limiting bench versatility

-He's one blow to the head away from being done forever and ever

 

Here's what's working for Justin Morneau

-He's left handed

-He's been good this year

 

Frankly, even knowing how poor he's been in the majors, I'd rather give Andy Wilkins a shot as opposed to trading for Justin Morneau. Trading for a 1B right now is just not ideal, no matter the cost.

This is where I can't go along with you. I don't want the Sox to suck anymore, and giving Andy Wilkins lots of plate appearances probably means we're resigned to continue sucking. I think the Sox are ready to stop sucking.

 

The cost of Morneau won't be high because other GM's see the con list. If it is too high, move on. Otherwise you take the plunge and hope he can fill a need. And if not, you've lost out on some B-level prospect.

[LDF]

Nooooo way the O's pick up their portion of that though. Hes owed what, 17 mill? He Wil get bought out at then re-signed for cheaper.

 

interesting, I like it.

[witesoxfan]

This is where I can't go along with you. I don't want the Sox to suck anymore, and giving Andy Wilkins lots of plate appearances probably means we're resigned to continue sucking. I think the Sox are ready to stop sucking.

 

The cost of Morneau won't be high because other GM's see the con list. If it is too high, move on. Otherwise you take the plunge and hope he can fill a need. And if not, you've lost out on some B-level prospect.

 

Who knows exactly what they ask for, but if they insist on one of Montas, Beck, Rondon, Ravelo, and Sanchez, which of those are you most willing to deal? Those are all B-level prospects with fairly good upside.

 

I don't see them taking a guy like Trayce Thompson or Jacob May or Kevan Smith.

 

If I am trading a prospect (or multiple prospects) at this point - and I have no aversion to doing so - it's not for a guy who might be forced to retire due injuries or a guy who's 34 on a 1 year deal.

[Whitey]

I'd like a trade of Danks and a prospect (even Micah) for Eithier and Van Slyke from LA.... Lineup problems solved, with little increase to payroll.

[GreenSox]

Gillaspie

[Balta1701]

I'd like a trade of Danks and a prospect (even Micah) for Eithier and Van Slyke from LA.... Lineup problems solved, with little increase to payroll.

Maybe if you only look at the first 2 years, but Danks has $28.5 million remaining on his deal, Ethier has $56 million.

[caulfield12]

Who knows exactly what they ask for, but if they insist on one of Montas, Beck, Rondon, Ravelo, and Sanchez, which of those are you most willing to deal? Those are all B-level prospects with fairly good upside.

 

I don't see them taking a guy like Trayce Thompson or Jacob May or Kevan Smith.

 

If I am trading a prospect (or multiple prospects) at this point - and I have no aversion to doing so - it's not for a guy who might be forced to retire due injuries or a guy who's 34 on a 1 year deal.

 

I wouldn't give up Montas. Too much upside as either a starter or closer.

 

Don't care about giving up any of those other four...heck...all four of them together.

[Whitey]

Maybe if you only look at the first 2 years, but Danks has $28.5 million remaining on his deal, Ethier has $56 million.

 

True.... But, Van Slyke has serious potential and is exactly the type of hitter we need. He is the main reason why I would make the deal and assume the extra cash.

[Balta1701]

True.... But, Van Slyke has serious potential and is exactly the type of hitter we need. He is the main reason why I would make the deal and assume the extra cash.

Then don't talk to me about including Micah. If I'm taking the extra cash on its because I'm getting Van Slyke and I believe at his advanced age of 28 next season he can contribute moderately in a role similar to what the Dodgers have him in now.

[LDF]

Maybe if you only look at the first 2 years, but Danks has $28.5 million remaining on his deal, Ethier has $56 million.

 

for this discussion only, lets assume danks is not in the equation.

 

Ethier signed a contract that is 6 yrs/$95.95M which ends in 2017. Van Slyke

contract is very controllable thru 2020. so for this discussion, it may be a good

deal for the sox. the sox have 2-3 more yrs of slyke at a good rate.

 

 

[Whitey]

Then don't talk to me about including Micah. If I'm taking the extra cash on its because I'm getting Van Slyke and I believe at his advanced age of 28 next season he can contribute moderately in a role similar to what the Dodgers have him in now.

 

I am not saying that is would be essential to include Micah, just that I personally would go to that level to get Van Slyke. He some real serious potential, and has only been used on a limited basis due to the Dodger outfield glut. His OPS at AAA is over 1,000 and his OPS at the MLB level is 821.

 

If they could swing a deal like that without including a player of Micah's caliber, I would be happy as hell.

 

[Balta1701]

for this discussion only, lets assume danks is not in the equation.

 

Ethier signed a contract that is 6 yrs/$95.95M which ends in 2017. Van Slyke

contract is very controllable thru 2020. so for this discussion, it may be a good

deal for the sox. the sox have 2-3 more yrs of slyke at a good rate.

2-3 years of Van Slyke at a good rate compared to 6 years of Micah at a good rate, in addition to absorbing a lot of money on Ethier. Van Slyke may have proven more than Micah at the big league level, but he's also going to be 28 next year and he's never played more than the 234 PA's he's had this year.

 

You could convince me that Van Slyke for Micah might be a tolerable move, but I wouldn't like it. Taking on a good amount of money in addition? No thanks.

[LDF]

2-3 years of Van Slyke at a good rate compared to 6 years of Micah at a good rate, in addition to absorbing a lot of money on Ethier. Van Slyke may have proven more than Micah at the big league level, but he's also going to be 28 next year and he's never played more than the 234 PA's he's had this year.

 

You could convince me that Van Slyke for Micah might be a tolerable move, but I wouldn't like it. Taking on a good amount of money in addition? No thanks.

 

that is a very interesting slant. I like it, at this time, I can't think of a counter.

 

great job.

[SCCWS]

that is a very interesting slant. I like it, at this time, I can't think of a counter.

 

great job.

 

How about Ben Zobrist? He is 33 but still a very valuable player finishing up a $7 Mil contract. Tampa needs offense so I wonder if we could package Viciedo+ Danks + cash ( Tampa won't want the 14 Mil) for Zobrist and a young RH pitcher. Sox could stick Zobrist at 2nd or OF or even SS, he adds speed and OBP as well as some pop from the left. Tampa always has good young arms at AAA. Danks has pitched pretty well at the Trop and Viciedo gives them a younger hitter w some pop behind Longoria

[Balta1701]

How about Ben Zobrist? He is 33 but still a very valuable player finishing up a $7 Mil contract. Tampa needs offense so I wonder if we could package Viciedo+ Danks + cash ( Tampa won't want the 14 Mil) for Zobrist and a young RH pitcher. Sox could stick Zobrist at 2nd or OF or even SS, he adds speed and OBP as well as some pop from the left. Tampa always has good young arms at AAA. Danks has pitched pretty well at the Trop and Viciedo gives them a younger hitter w some pop behind Longoria

Isn't that a downgrade to Tampa's offense?

[witesoxfan]

I wouldn't give up Montas. Too much upside as either a starter or closer.

 

Don't care about giving up any of those other four...heck...all four of them together.

 

For Justin Morneau? I think you're crazy.

[shysocks]

For Justin Morneau? I think you're crazy.

I agree, I would never give up all four of those guys for Morneau. Maybe if this were five years ago.

 

I'd have difficulty taking the plunge for any of the players you named. I'm closest on Montas because of the org's ability to find pitchers and his injury issues creating just enough worry. But I guess I don't want Morneau badly enough. Not that I know if that's what it would take; I'm terrible at figuring out guys' trade value.

[witesoxfan]

I agree, I would never give up all four of those guys for Morneau. Maybe if this were five years ago.

 

I'd have difficulty taking the plunge for any of the players you named. I'm closest on Montas because of the org's ability to find pitchers and his injury issues creating just enough worry. But I guess I don't want Morneau badly enough. Not that I know if that's what it would take; I'm terrible at figuring out guys' trade value.

 

I just don't think that the cost that will be required will be worth it. There's no long-term value and, given his concussion history and streakiness, there's no guarantee that there's good short-term value either. Based on his cost and what he'd be brought in to do, you have to play him and cross your fingers because he's your answer. This isn't like the Ethier suggestion where he's signed for 3 more years and can play the other 3 outfield positions along with 1B, and you'd likely have some of the contract picked up as well.

 

Of those B level prospects I listed - there are a few others in the organization too - I could find a match for Ethier. It may also not take a B level prospect to get Ethier, coming off a down year. If the Sox are going to get an older LHB, I think that's the most logical guy to target.

[shysocks]

I just don't think that the cost that will be required will be worth it. There's no long-term value and, given his concussion history and streakiness, there's no guarantee that there's good short-term value either. Based on his cost and what he'd be brought in to do, you have to play him and cross your fingers because he's your answer. This isn't like the Ethier suggestion where he's signed for 3 more years and can play the other 3 outfield positions along with 1B, and you'd likely have some of the contract picked up as well.

 

Of those B level prospects I listed - there are a few others in the organization too - I could find a match for Ethier. It may also not take a B level prospect to get Ethier, coming off a down year. If the Sox are going to get an older LHB, I think that's the most logical guy to target.

Ethier is very logical because of his position, but if he's washed up then we just have another albatross.

Depending on how much money LA throws in.

And maybe he'll be fine. He wouldn't be the first guy to have a crappy age-32 season and then rebound. Jayson Werth comes to mind.

He could thrive again with regular playing time.

So many if's. This is why I'm not a GM.

[caulfield12]

For Justin Morneau? I think you're crazy.

 

 

I just meant in general...for the right player.

 

I'd rather give up those other four guys together than Montas. I don't think we'll even remember any of them five years from now, except in a very vague way, like Jon Gilmore or Santos Rodriguez.

[witesoxfan]

Ethier is very logical because of his position, but if he's washed up then we just have another albatross.

Depending on how much money LA throws in.

And maybe he'll be fine. He wouldn't be the first guy to have a crappy age-32 season and then rebound. Jayson Werth comes to mind.

He could thrive again with regular playing time.

So many if's. This is why I'm not a GM.

 

Without looking at names, if you tell me a guy has had 1 good season in the last 5 and another has had 4 good seasons in the last 5, I think the player most likely to have a good season the following year is the guy with 4 good seasons.

 

Yes, there is a risk, but there is with any move. Ethier has a track record productivity but he's seen his playing time diminish substantially this year due to a logjam in the OF and 1B which can mess with a player's psyche and rhythm, both of which are important to production.

 

The Dodgers would have to include a considerable amount to make the deal worthwhile - he's guaranteed $54.5 mill over the next 3 seasons, so I'd say they need to cover approximately $24 million, at the bare minimum (John Danks just so happens to be owed $28.4 mill over the next 2 seasons, which is $26 million over 3 seasons). You give them Danks, Trayce Thompson, and Kevan Smith/Adrian Nieto/Josh Phegley and see where they're at.

[witesoxfan]

I just meant in general...for the right player.

 

I'd rather give up those other four guys together than Montas. I don't think we'll even remember any of them five years from now, except in a very vague way, like Jon Gilmore or Santos Rodriguez.

 

I have no problem giving up Tim Anderson for the right player, I was talking specifically about Justin Morneau, hence why I listed B level prospects. If he were eligible to be traded, I'd give up Carlos Rodon too, but they'd have to wait until June or July to do so. I mean, you talk to Miami and say "here are Tim Anderson and Carlos Rodon, you name 4-5 other prospects and give us Giancarlo Stanton and Jose Fernandez and we're in business."

 

I'd trade Sale and Abreu in the right deals too, but the asking prices would be so outrageous that it would not be justifiable for the acquiring team to do so.